Changing keys of songs

JonathanAnon

Hi lads,

Just looking for opinions here.. What are your opinions on changing keys of songs? Do you think it kills the song? What percentage of songs in your set would be in the original key?

thanks,
J

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

it doesnt kill the song at all if done properly. The main reason for key changes is for the singer, id rather hear a song in a different key with in key vocals than the original key and out of key vocals! We play our set half a step down, so thats around 85% of it in a different key straight away!

stevood

I agree,

The only need for key changes is the singer. a step or 2 down never really kills the songs. Much better to have the vocals sounding spot on

I've even seen a lad doing livin on a prayer in am (7 steps down) The crowd didn't notice at all.
However you might get some muso coming up to you after and telling you how he noticed it and he'd do it different ha ha. You can tell him/her to ....... off

r.duke

............

groovemerchant7

It is usually guitar players that cannot be bothered to change the key:) I can understand that certain guitar things need open strings etc. However, If the key is killing the singer then, it is just ridiculous. I heard a demo of covers by a band recently and all the keys were in the original recorded key. The singers vocal range was being squashed because, the key was too low. In this instance it was a female singing male vocal parts. However, the Guitarist didn't seem to care once his guitar sounded good! Thing is overall, it didn't sound good because the lead vocal was not shining.

Keys do have their own characheristics. To quote Spinal Tap....

"D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why"

There is some science behind this statement. Sharp keys are generally referred to as bright and flat keys as dark sounding. The more sharps the brighter and the more flats the darker the sound.This is related to the frequencies of the Harmonic series and how us a humans react emotionally and physically to sound waves. The following is abstract but, I have spoke to other musicians about this and some have concurred. To me each key has its own colour. For e.g. I when In the key of F whilst playing I'll often imagine a blue colour. In E a red colour, in C a Yellow colour....

So, getting back to your point which is interesting Yes, I do think the changing of keys can have a profound effect.

Malice

JonathanAnon wrote: »

What are your opinions on changing keys of songs? Do you think it kills the song?

Not at all. Sometimes as others have written, it's necessary to avoid causing problems for the singer. Other times it can be interesting to see how it affects the song.

JonathanAnon wrote:

What percentage of songs in your set would be in the original key?

My band plays all originals so 100% .

Duke Leonal Felmet

I play Penny Lane a step down on the piano simply because its easier to play that way. It doesnt make any noticable difference, and a crowd would definitely not notice.

pretentiouslad

groovemerchant7 wrote: »

It is usually guitar players that cannot be bothered to change the key:) I can understand that certain guitar things need open strings etc. However, If the key is killing the singer then, it is just ridiculous. I heard a demo of covers by a band recently and all the keys were in the original recorded key. The singers vocal range was being squashed because, the key was too low. In this instance it was a female singing male vocal parts. However, the Guitarist didn't seem to care once his guitar sounded good! Thing is overall, it didn't sound good because the lead vocal was not shining.

Keys do have their own characheristics. To quote Spinal Tap....

"D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why"


There is some science behind this statement. Sharp keys are generally referred to as bright and flat keys as dark sounding. The more sharps the brighter and the more flats the darker the sound.This is related to the frequencies of the Harmonic series and how us a humans react emotionally and physically to sound waves. The following is abstract but, I have spoke to other musicians about this and some have concurred. To me each key has its own colour. For e.g. I when In the key of F whilst playing I'll often imagine a blue colour. In E a red colour, in C a Yellow colour....

So, getting back to your point which is interesting Yes, I do think the changing of keys can have a profound effect.

I think you mean minor is sad and major is happy, flats and sharps are just ways of writing notes to make it easier for a musician to play from sheet music... Bb and A# are exactly the same note/pitch.

Sometimes a change of key can kill a song, but whatever makes the singer sound best is the bottom line.

groovemerchant7

Hey there, Yes A sharp is the same pitch as Bb but, But A sharp is not a key and key characteristics is what I was refering to. I dont mean minor/major are happy and sad that is pretty obvious. Flat keys are generally said to have dark sounding timbre and sharp keys to have a bright timbre.

This link shows how composers viewed key characteristics and the colours keys can envoke. It is interesting...

http://biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm


You are right changing a key up or down a step or two for e.g. a pub gig wont make much of a difference. Its mostly imortant the lead vocal sounds good in the register.

Duke Leonal Felmet

pretentiouslad wrote: »

groovemerchant7 wrote: »

It is usually guitar players that cannot be bothered to change the key:) I can understand that certain guitar things need open strings etc. However, If the key is killing the singer then, it is just ridiculous. I heard a demo of covers by a band recently and all the keys were in the original recorded key. The singers vocal range was being squashed because, the key was too low. In this instance it was a female singing male vocal parts. However, the Guitarist didn't seem to care once his guitar sounded good! Thing is overall, it didn't sound good because the lead vocal was not shining.

Keys do have their own characheristics. To quote Spinal Tap....

"D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why"


There is some science behind this statement. Sharp keys are generally referred to as bright and flat keys as dark sounding. The more sharps the brighter and the more flats the darker the sound.This is related to the frequencies of the Harmonic series and how us a humans react emotionally and physically to sound waves. The following is abstract but, I have spoke to other musicians about this and some have concurred. To me each key has its own colour. For e.g. I when In the key of F whilst playing I'll often imagine a blue colour. In E a red colour, in C a Yellow colour....

So, getting back to your point which is interesting Yes, I do think the changing of keys can have a profound effect.

I think you mean minor is sad and major is happy, flats and sharps are just ways of writing notes to make it easier for a musician to play from sheet music... Bb and A# are exactly the same note/pitch.

Yeah, on their own they do. But to my ear, they sound different, depending on whether you are flattening the B or sharpening the A. As in, playing A and then slurring to A#, or playing B and slurring to Bb.

Same note, but the context does change it. Anyone else concur?

rockintothebone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wscZhvj_lH4

see what the best band on earth has to tell ya..

Vomit

groovemerchant7 wrote: »

Hey there, Yes A sharp is the same pitch as Bb but, But A sharp is not a key and key characteristics is what I was refering to. I dont mean minor/major are happy and sad that is pretty obvious. Flat keys are generally said to have dark sounding timbre and sharp keys to have a bright timbre.

This link shows how composers viewed key characteristics and the colours keys can envoke. It is interesting...

http://biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm


You are right changing a key up or down a step or two for e.g. a pub gig wont make much of a difference. Its mostly imortant the lead vocal sounds good in the register.

Sorry but that's just wrong. That site references things written in 1682, and people were stoOpid back then! :pac:

According to one part of that page, Living On A Prayer (which was mentioned earlier here) would sound, "effeminate, amorous, plaintive" in its original key of E minor, but if played in D minor to accommodate a different singer (or potentially and aging Jon Bon Jovi), it would sound "serious and pious". Nonsense!

It's like saying that notes on their own have built in characteristics. They don't. Notes only take on 'feeling' in the context of other notes being played before or after, and these are what scales and modes are all about. G Ionian has the same 'feeling' as C Ionian, etc.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Vomit wrote: »

Sorry but that's just wrong. That site references things written in 1682, and people were stoOpid back then! :pac:

According to one part of that page, Living On A Prayer (which was mentioned earlier here) would sound, "effeminate, amorous, plaintive" in its original key of E minor, but if played in D minor to accommodate a different singer (or potentially and aging Jon Bon Jovi), it would sound "serious and pious". Nonsense!

It's like saying that notes on their own have built in characteristics. They don't. Notes only take on 'feeling' in the context of other notes being played before or after, and these are what scales and modes are all about. G Ionian has the same 'feeling' as C Ionian, etc.

Completely agree.

groovemerchant7

I actually have to play Living on a prayer in Cm next week. Good job I have a 5 string bass. Of course I'm not got to feel plaintiff or pious or whatever if I play it in Dm instead. Like I said,changing a key up or down for this kind of tune isn't going to make much difference.

There is no truth regards key colours or the emotions they envoke, its just theory. But, I don't think people like Schubert were stupid. Books have been wrote on this subject so, there must be something to it.

:cool: