Client wants non-scrolling site :(

rossc007

Hi Guys,

Just wanted some opinions on this one.

A good client of mine had asked me to develop a site. The design of the site is finished, but they have asked me to make it not scroll vertically

The client is using whopper resolutions on their office PC's - 1440x900, so the site looks as though it might fit on one screen when displayed on his office PC's, so I can see where he is coming from. I've tried explaining that I have to develop the site to fit most resolutions, I've even explained that the current vertical content is around 1200 pixels.

Anyone got any other compelling arguments

tricky D

You need to get your client to realise that it is simply not possible to control end users' screen sizes/resolutions, windows sizes and text magnifications in the manner they wish.

Ste_D

you have to love clients and their funny little requests!!

wobbles

Drop into his office with a small netbook or something, and show the site on their monitors and the netbook. These people need to be shown things rather than explain it. Once they see the problems it will cause it will be easier to convince them

tricky D

Do what wobbles says but also, resize the window and up/zoom/scale the font sizes.

pixelburp

If I had a penny every time I've had that request down through the years ... that and conversations about keeping items "above the fold". Irritates me that print logic /terms find their way into web discussions, and people are still clinging onto the fallacy that nobody knows to scroll down a page.

Anyway, as for your issue rossc007; easier to show than to tell. Demonstrate the site on other monitor types if you can. I'd also back up your argument with some statistics and percentages of screen resolutions.

Also; as an anecdote to get them away from the "scrolling is bad" mindset, ask them if they user Facebook/Twitter/LinkedIn. When they say "yes", then inquire how they go through all their friends' updates. When they respond with "I scroll down", simply smile and fold your arms

BarackPyjama

Vertical scrolling is a standard usability on the web. Users don't mind doing it. Restricting the vertical height of a website is going to seriously limit the site from a content perspective.

I've had this request myself a few times. Never fails to amaze me how many clients still ask for it.

Ste_D

Damn, there are way too many comments on this thread - I hate when I have to scroll down!!

I want to propose an alternative to the general consensus. If the client office have large resolutions on all/most computers then do it. By all means explain that you have reservations about it and why, but at the end of the day, they are the customer and if thats what they want then thats what they get. I would advise to ensure that you have the request in writing though so they cant blame you when they realise that a scroll bar free site is a very odd idea!!

pixelburp

Ste_D wrote: »

Damn, there are way too many comments on this thread - I hate when I have to scroll down!!

I want to propose an alternative to the general consensus. If the client office have large resolutions on all/most computers then do it. By all means explain that you have reservations about it and why, but at the end of the day, they are the customer and if thats what they want then thats what they get. I would advise to ensure that you have the request in writing though so they cant blame you when they realise that a scroll bar free site is a very odd idea!!

Sorry I disagree with that - "Just do it" is a bad philosophy, and nearly always comes back to damage the agency / designer who conducted the work. I know you're not simply proposing that, but it's a bit too close to it for my liking

I've seen it happen before where work is conducted despite common sense telling you not to; simply because it's easier than saying 'no' to the client.
6 months later the client finds out from another source about what a bad idea it was, and so the client holds you accountable for not flagging it with them in the first place. A bad working relationship is developed, needless extra costs incurred & the reputation of the web-agency is then reduced. Nobody wins in that scenario.

I'm not saying a web-designer should stand his/her ground until the bitter end, but it's our duty to use our professional discretion and expertise to guide as much as possible. I generally find once you blind them with science and / or case studies, the client soon realises they're not the expert in this conversation and backs down. So long as you don't come across as the affronted-designer type, most clients are quite reasonable.

Ste_D

If you read my post again, I never said to just do what they want. I suggested raising the points, but at the end of the day its the client who is paying for it. The developer can - and should - give advice, but this should stop short of telling the client what they need.

pixelburp

Ste_D wrote: »

If you read my post again, I never said to just do what they want. I suggested raising the points, but at the end of the day its the client who is paying for it. The developer can - and should - give advice, but this should stop short of telling the client what they need.

I know you didn't say that, and I acknowledge that in my own post (I'll read yours if you read mine ). Ultimately it's still a business relationship between a service-provider & a client; you may suggest the developer should stop short of telling the client what they need, but in my experience that's often why the developer is hired in the first place - to give the answers and direction the client needs & is otherwise incapable of providing.

Having said that, of course it also depends on how minor or trivial the request is in the first place.

Gordon

1) Mock up horizontal scrolling site to solve their dislike for vertical scroll.
2) Mock up miniscule one page site that delivers 'non scrolling' site on all screen combinations (ie iPhone).
3) Mock up something that you think best fits the client's needs based on their brief while ignoring the ludicrous 'non scrolling' statement.

Show these in order 1,2,3 or 2,1,3. If they still don't take the hint, then good luck with that!

tricky D

Ste_D wrote: »

If you read my post again, I never said to just do what they want. I suggested raising the points, but at the end of the day its the client who is paying for it. The developer can - and should - give advice, but this should stop short of telling the client what they need.

Wrong answer. It is the user who uses it and that is who the target is, not the client. Only a bad client doesn't understand that.

rossc007

Cheers guys,

Mailed the client with my polite thoughts on the matter, they seemed to take my opinion on board and have ditched the idea

Trojan

These might be useful (or might cause more trouble!):

http://www.foldtester.com
http://browsersize.googlelabs.com

If they've been educated and are happy then I'm sure you don't want to rock the boat

desaparecidos

Trojan wrote: »

http://browsersize.googlelabs.com

What's the idea behind the MS Paint freehand drawn lines?

rossc007

desaparecidos wrote: »

What's the idea behind the MS Paint freehand drawn lines?

Its googley

S.M.B.

I'm presuming it's accurate down to the pixel, therefore jagged lines (à la paint) as opposed to a nice curve or 90 degree angled boxes.

p

Point them to this:

http://iampaddy.com/lifebelow600/

tricky D

The 'fold' shouldn't be tritely dismissed nor slavishly adhered to as some sort of concrete rule. To put it suitably vaguely, it's one factor worth considering only.

The original notion of the content above the fold, coming from newspapers, is where users know the medium has content below the fold and on later pages, due to the physical properties of the product. The prompt to further content is in the medium.

It's not quite the same in computer/device UI design. It is possible for users to miss the prompt to further content in some designs, notably where the 'above the fold' looks like a splash type page, for example. This usually only the case with poor design and in the huge majority of cases, scrolling is obvious. However, too often, but not so often, I come across designs where the prompt is not obvious. Also worth noting is that for some less experienced users, notions like scrolling are not immediately obvious. A user study with over 65s a few years ago comes to mind. Some things we take for granted were nowhere near as obvious/intuitive.

To compound the matter further, where would this fold be, given the huge variety of interface sizes these days.

In the article p points to, the tip of the iceberg metaphor strongly suggests the prompt I refer to.

The fold should not be though of as a black and white rule, just something in the grey area between, worth consideration.

rossc007

tricky D wrote: »

The 'fold' shouldn't be tritely dismissed nor slavishly adhered to as some sort of concrete rule. To put it suitably vaguely, it's one factor worth considering only.

The original notion of the content above the fold, coming from newspapers, is where users know the medium has content below the fold and on later pages, due to the physical properties of the product. The prompt to further content is in the medium.

It's not quite the same in computer/device UI design. It is possible for users to miss the prompt to further content in some designs, notably where the 'above the fold' looks like a splash type page, for example. This usually only the case with poor design and in the huge majority of cases, scrolling is obvious. However, too often, but not so often, I come across designs where the prompt is not obvious. Also worth noting is that for some less experienced users, notions like scrolling are not immediately obvious. A user study with over 65s a few years ago comes to mind. Some things we take for granted were nowhere near as obvious/intuitive.

To compound the matter further, where would this fold be, given the huge variety of interface sizes these days.

In the article p points to, the tip of the iceberg metaphor strongly suggests the prompt I refer to.

The fold should not be though of as a black and white rule, just something in the grey area between, worth consideration.

Seems to me that The Fold, should be ignored completely for web design?Thats the whole point of this thread

cormee

rossc007 wrote: »

Seems to me that The Fold, should be ignored completely for web design?Thats the whole point of this thread

Not at all - above the fold is far more valuable real estate, you should put your calls to action and any important content above it. It's not the be-all and end-all of web design but it does matter.

Try putting two identical links above and beow and see which has the higher ctr.

Remouad

Do they just want to keep the header and links visible all the time?
What languages are you using?

tricky D

rossc007 wrote: »

Seems to me that The Fold, should be ignored completely for web design?Thats the whole point of this thread

Quite the opposite really. Perhaps you should read the OP, the responses or my and other posts more carefully.

cormee

p wrote: »

Point them to this:

http://iampaddy.com/lifebelow600/

I'm really not sure I could take design advice from someone who has black text on a navy background.

Then regarding his complaint:

A very fitting word to describe the state of web design at present would be

‘Samey’

So many sites have the same, big header, big fat call to action buttons, a sidebar, a big fat footer and the letterpress effect scattered about. Finding a bit of originality in the sea of sameyness is pretty difficult these days.

Design and interface patterns exist for a reason, they evolve over time into what they are, and shouldn't be dismissed, with little more than a quirky graphic or personal opinion as proof. Books have been written on the subject, Steve Krug's Don't Make Me Think being one. Fine if he's calling for originality, but he seems to be advocating throwing out the book.

Jakob Nielsen, who I'm sure none of us would dare disagree with, has done a little more research on the fold than Paddy, http://www.useit.com/alertbox/scrolling-attention.html , he summarises it by saying "Web users spend 80% of their time looking at information above the page fold. Although users do scroll, they allocate only 20% of their attention below the fold."

Going back to OPs original question - just show your client data on the growth of mobile devices, then show him how his design would look on one.