Question for Fans of other leagues Re Rovers in Europa Leage

vellocet

Out of interest to those here who aren't especially interested in the Irish professional game, has Rovers making the group stages changed how you perceive the LoI?

I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO TURN INTO THE FARCE IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME.

I'm genuinely interested. For years I have heard people say that the league would only be credible if an Irish side made the step up. Now they have, has it achieved anything for the league in general, or will the positives be confined to Tallaght?

gimmick

How has it acheived anything for the league in general? It is benefical to Shams, and only Shams. I haven't seen more people in Turners Cross because another team, in another division, in another City have played ina European competition.

vellocet

gimmick wrote: »

How has it acheived anything for the league in general? It is benefical to Shams, and only Shams. I haven't seen more people in Turners Cross because another team, in another division, in another City have played ina European competition.

To be fair, the question isn't really for you.

I'm more interested in a dyed in the wool fan of a foreign side who dismisses the LoI as being sub par. Will a team achieving what the hoops have achieved impact on that attitude and if not, why not?

That_Guy

vellocet wrote: »

I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO TURN INTO THE FARCE IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME.

Going well so far... Oh wait.

vellocet wrote: »

I'm more interested in a dyed in the wool fan of a foreign side

Gone Drinking

vellocet wrote: »

I'm more interested in a dyed in the wool fan of a foreign side who dismisses the LoI as being sub par.

I don't follow League of Ireland, but i don't dismiss it as being sub par either. For the size of the country, the stadiums, the money involved, if anything its above par. Its just not what I watched growing up.

I wouldn't start watching League of Ireland unless my local side got in tbh

vellocet

That_Guy wrote: »

Going well so far... Oh wait.

I don't especially see what is inflammatory about that statement....

Paul Tergat

With the way you go about asking the question I hope you get no sensible answers tbh

vellocet

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I don't follow League of Ireland, but i don't dismiss it as being sub par either. For the size of the country, the stadiums, the money involved, if anything its above par. Its just not what I watched growing up.

I wouldn't start watching League of Ireland unless my local side got in tbh

Do you mind me asking where you are from and what team you follow in the absence of a local side?

That_Guy

vellocet wrote: »

I don't especially see what is inflammatory about that statement....

Dammit. Was hoping you'd bite.

But to answer your question, Rovers isn't good for the league in terms of attendances rising for clubs.

It's good for Rovers and the league has probably gotten a bit of exposure around Europe.

Would only go see them if they were playing Bohs I suppose.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO TURN INTO THE FARCE IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME.

Probably shouldn't have used the word "barstoolers" in the opening post/thread title then. FFS.

vellocet

Des wrote: »

Probably shouldn't have used the word "barstoolers" in the opening post/thread title then. FFS.

If you can think of a better phrase, I'm all ears.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

If you can think of a better phrase, I'm all ears.

"people", "football fans", "fans of other teams outside the LoI"

Look pal, I used to be just like you on here, using that word, deriding people for not supporting the LoI, but it's absolutely pointless. But I'm different now, and take a different approach.

I actually think anyone using that term, "Barstoolers" is a bit of a cretin and should probably be banned from the forum to be honest.

vellocet

Des wrote: »

"people", "football fans", "fans of other teams outside the LoI"

Look pal, I used to be just like you on here, using that word, deriding people for not supporting the LoI, but it's absolutely pointless. But I'm different now, and take a different approach.

I actually think anyone using that term, "Barstoolers" is a bit of a cretin and should probably be banned from the forum to be honest.

I'm doing no such thing. What I am trying to get to the bottom of is why people don't support the domestic game. What I am trying to get to is whether the standard is actually a factor.

Fr Tod Umptious

Ok I am casual enough football fan, was more into it when I was younger but now hardly ever watch 'Match of the Day'
Gillett Soccer Saturday from 3.00 to 4.50 is enough for me, and I have never supported an English or Irish team.

Not for one moment did I think that Rovers in the Europa League would bring people flocking to LOI grounds.
Instaed it is just one more step on a long road to making the LOI more popular at home.

Since the introduction of summer soccer teams has progressed further in Europe than ever before.
And in years to come the progression (hopefully) will increase, 2 then 3 teams in the Europa League group stages, then a team in the CL groups etc.

Only when that is the common progression for Irish teams will you see a greater interest domestically, and it will build up over the years, it will not be a big bag.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

I'm doing no such thing..

Well, by using a term like that, you actually are deriding them.

vellocet wrote: »

What I am trying to get to the bottom of is why people don't support the domestic game. What I am trying to get to is whether the standard is actually a factor.

People don't support the domestic game because

1. it's shít

2. they weren't brought to games as kids, so didn't grow up supporting their local LoI team

3. it's shít

4. people would rather spend €15 in Tesco on 20 beers on a friday than €15 quid into an LoI ground with dark toilets, no toilets or no women's toilet.

5. it's shít

6. The majority of teams do nothing to attract people into their grounds, instead expect people to just turn up

7. it's shít

8. it's run by a bunch of incompetents who can't/won't stick to their own rule book

9. it's shít

10. teams are constantly going bust.have financial issues. What's the point of starting to support a team if you don't know they'll be around three years from now. Why invest your time/money into something that has a high probability of not being even there in a few years?

11. it's shít

vellocet

Des, if I wanted a whinge from the Shels chip on shoulder department, I would have asked for it. The league has moved on without you, deal with it and stop trying to drag the rest of us down with you.

Mr Alan

Less likely to do 1 or 2

vellocet wrote: »

Des, if I wanted a whinge from the Shels chip on shoulder department, I would have asked for it. The league has moved on without you, deal with it and stop trying to drag the rest of us down with you.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

Des, if I wanted a whinge from the Shels chip on shoulder department, I would have asked for it. The league has moved on without you, deal with it and stop trying to drag the rest of us down with you.

Do you disagree with the points I've made, or are you just going to start with the personal insults, like the majority of posters on this forum. As soon as the debate get's in any way hard, they throw a strop, ignore it, or start a slagging match.

Well done.

Instead of getting all stroppy, why not take the points I've made and try to rationally debate them?

Or are you unable to do that?

It was probably a decent idea for a thread, really, but the way it was executed leaves a fir bit to be desired, I mean taking a pop at your target audience isn't really likely to inspire well thought out, reasonable answers, is it?

And then you show your true colours, out for a fight.

Well done.

Fr Tod Umptious

vellocet wrote: »

Des, if I wanted a whinge from the Shels chip on shoulder department, I would have asked for it. The league has moved on without you, deal with it and stop trying to drag the rest of us down with you.

Yea it moved on all right

Since Shels had there trouble

Cork City bust
Derry City payments scandal
Sporting Fingal bust
Drogheda hanging on for dear life
Galway loosing money
Bhos is al sorts of trouble re bills

vellocet

Des wrote: »

Do you disagree with the points I've made, or are you just going to start with the personal insults, like the majority of posters on this forum. As soon as the debate get's in any way hard, they throw a strop, ignore it, or start a slagging match.

Well done.

Instead of getting all stroppy, why not take the points I've made and try to rationally debate them?

Or are you unable to do that?

It was probably a decent idea for a thread, really, but the way it was executed leaves a fir bit to be desired, I mean taking a pop at your target audience isn't really likely to inspire well thought out, reasonable answers, is it?

And then you show your true colours, out for a fight.

Well done.

You are accusing me of getting arsey? :rolleyes:

But ok, why not

Des wrote: »

it's shít.

What is? The standard of football can, like all professional leagues be excellent, it can be dire. I have fallen asleep watching EPL games this season.

Des wrote: »

they weren't brought to games as kids, so didn't grow up supporting their local LoI team

Lots of fans weren't. Look at Rovers in Tallaght, thousands of brand new fans. Cop out.

Des wrote: »

4. people would rather spend €15 in Tesco on 20 beers on a friday than €15 quid into an LoI ground with dark toilets, no toilets or no women's toilet.

Well we have established that, but don't assume all stadia are as dank and neglected as Tolka Park.

Des wrote: »

6. The majority of teams do nothing to attract people into their grounds, instead expect people to just turn up

What waffle. Again, just because Shels have basically given up, don't assume the rest have.

Des wrote: »

8. it's run by a bunch of incompetents who can't/won't stick to their own rule book

Name me a league that doesn't have issues with it's administrators?

Des wrote: »

10. teams are constantly going bust.have financial issues. What's the point of starting to support a team if you don't know they'll be around three years from now. Why invest your time/money into something that has a high probability of not being even there in a few years?

Compared to where? The fiscal model that is England or Spain? All the major English clubs have massive financial question marks - that isn't it. The LoI clubs are worse run than any other league and have a blessing in being Financial Fair Play compliant ahead of the pack.

_blank_

Again, with the digs.

I'm out.

vellocet

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yea it moved on all right

Since Shels had there trouble

Cork City bust
Derry City payments scandal
Sporting Fingal bust
Drogheda hanging on for dear life
Galway loosing money
Bhos is al sorts of trouble re bills

Man United in debt with fans protesting about finances
Portsmouth in administration
Southampton in administration
Leeds in administraton
Liverpool in crisis at board level
Everton in trouble and trying to offload the club
West Ham a billion in debt
Cambridge gone
Luton fcuked out of league

_blank_

Actually, one thing has struck me

vellocet wrote: »

What is? The standard of football can, like all professional leagues be excellent, it can be dire. I have fallen asleep watching EPL games this season.

Why the fúck are you comparing the LoI to the EPL?

yes, they are both Soccer leagues, but one is richer than a medium sized country, the other is a backwater.

Comparing them is stupid and ridiculous.

vellocet

Des wrote: »

Again, with the digs.

I'm out.

This thread is not about bitter Shels fans who somehow reckon they were hard done by and point accusingly at the rest of us who are moving onwards and upwards while they wonder why their ground is in a dilapidated state.

Its about potential new fans and whether standards on the pitch, which are better than ever, is a factor in getting them in the door.

But thanks for the rant, it was tedious.

Kess73

Less likely to do 1 or 2

vellocet wrote: »

You are accusing me of getting arsey? :rolleyes:

But ok, why not



What is? The standard of football can, like all professional leagues be excellent, it can be dire. I have fallen asleep watching EPL games this season.



Lots of fans weren't. Look at Rovers in Tallaght, thousands of brand new fans. Cop out.




Well we have established that, but don't assume all stadia are as dank and neglected as Tolka Park.




What waffle. Again, just because Shels have basically given up, don't assume the rest have.




Name me a league that doesn't have issues with it's administrators?




Compared to where? The fiscal model that is England or Spain? All the major English clubs have massive financial question marks - that isn't it. The LoI clubs are worse run than any other league and have a blessing in being Financial Fair Play compliant ahead of the pack.

What is the point of getting Shel digs in a number of times? From what I have read Des gave a pretty accurate list of points that could apply to many clubs in the LOI and he did so without referring to his past/current relationship with Shels.

GLaDOS

This is how I see it going personally:

A lot of Irish football fans will watch the EL games on telly.
Rovers will get increased attendances for the home games, especially Tottenham.
Of those new fans, very few will actually go to a league game.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

This thread is not about bitter Shels fans who somehow reckon they were hard done by and point accusingly at the rest of us who are moving onwards and upwards while they wonder why their ground is in a dilapidated state. .

What the blue fúck are you actually on about?

I didn't mention Shels once, so I'm not the one with an obsession hre mate. christ.

Anyway, on the subject of rundown stadiums.

Tallaght, Turners X and The Brandywell are decent.

Athlone is also "decent" but only compared to everything else.

Never been to The Showgrounds, so can't comment, but would assume it's ok-ish.

Dalymount and Richer are dumps, everything else in the first division, well, I wouldn't house Bosnians in some of them.

vellocet wrote: »

Its about potential new fans and whether standards on the pitch, which are better than ever, is a factor in getting them in the door.

But thanks for the rant, it was tedious.

You think fans will be attrracted to the LoI by being labelled "barstoolers" by the likes of you?

Really?

Or were you just spoiling for a fight?

vellocet

Kess73 wrote: »

What is the point of getting Shel digs in a number of times? From what I have read Des gave a pretty accurate list of points that could apply to many clubs in the LOI and he did so without referring to his past/current relationship with Shels.

Because Des is the quintessential Shels fan. The equivalent of the guy in the corner of the pub who drank away his talent and blames everyone but himself and talks down everyone else's ambitions and deeds.

vellocet

Des wrote: »

What the blue fúck are you actually on about?

I didn't mention Shels once, so I'm not the one with an obsession hre mate. christ.

Anyway, on the subject of rundown stadiums.

Tallaght, Turners X and The Brandywell are decent.

Athlone is also "decent" but only compared to everything else.

Never been to The Showgrounds, so can't comment, but would assume it's ok-ish.

Dalymount and Richer are dumps, everything else in the first division, well, I wouldn't house Bosnians in some of them.



You think fans will be attrracted to the LoI by being labelled "barstoolers" by the likes of you?

Really?

Or were you just spoiling for a fight?

No, they will flock along as a result of your 'its shít' rant.

You are the one who caused the fight...

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

Because Des is the quintessential Shels fan. The equivalent of the guy in the corner of the pub who drank away his talent and blames everyone but himself and talks down everyone else's ambitions and deeds.

Who's ambitions am I talking down?

Also, I'm not blaming anyone but Shels for the predicament we've been in for for 5 or 6 years.

I know it was all our own making, I knew it when we were playing Deportivo in front of 22k, and I knew it when we were playing in front of a muddy field in Galway.

_blank_

vellocet wrote: »

No, they will flock along as a result of your 'its shít' rant.

You are the one who caused the fight...

I started no beef with you pal.

You were the one who

1. Started bringing Shels up for some reason

then

2. Started taking personal digs at me

So, now you have made a very serious enemy on the forum, namely, me. You won't win this, you can't win this. Better men than you have tried, better men than you have failed.

You see, I've been around for a long time, you could say I'm a part of the furniture. I've done the trolling, I've taken the bans, I've outlasted the likes of you better than anyone else.

So, you can either concede now and walk away with some dignity, or you can continue this and lose all respect.

The choice is....yours.

gimmick

He didn't cause a fight. Your terming of "barstoolers" is inflammatory.

I agree with what Des has said. The football has to improve significantly before people will flock through the stiles. Improvements cannot really be made or justified to stadiums unless people come. The football will not improve unless thereis more money. So its a vicious circle.

Anyone who thinks that just because hams have mader the breakthrough means that it is going to happen regularly from ehre on it is delusional. Fair play to them and all.

stewie01

wp des, way to derail a thread.

to answer your question, i've started taking more interest in LoI football since they started showing live games on rte the last 2/3 years. its entertaining stuff. they should replace fair city with a few more matches. rovers european campaign doesnt make much of a difference to me.

Kess73

Less likely to do 1 or 2

vellocet wrote: »

Because Des is the quintessential Shels fan. The equivalent of the guy in the corner of the pub who drank away his talent and blames everyone but himself and talks down everyone else's ambitions and deeds.

The only guy doing a lot of talking about Shels is you. The only guy doing any talking about Des and Shels is you. Des came on here and gave a pretty fair and in many cases a pretty accurate take.

The only person coming across as being bitter and with an axe to grind is you. Could have been a good and interesting thread if it was taken on topic, but you have managed to derail your own thread by doing exactly what you asked for it not to become.

vellocet

Des wrote: »

I started no beef with you pal.

You were the one who

1. Started bringing Shels up for some reason

then

2. Started taking personal digs at me

So, now you have made a very serious enemy on the forum, namely, me. You won't win this, you can't win this. Better men than you have tried, better men than you have failed.

You see, I've been around for a long time, you could say I'm a part of the furniture. I've done the trolling, I've taken the bans, I've outlasted the likes of you better than anyone else.

So, you can either concede now and walk away with some dignity, or you can continue this and lose all respect.

The choice is....yours.

A hahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahaha. That is magnificent



Out of interest, is that not some form of threat and presumably against the rules?

Kess73

Less likely to do 1 or 2

Des wrote: »

I started no beef with you pal.

You were the one who

1. Started bringing Shels up for some reason

then

2. Started taking personal digs at me

So, now you have made a very serious enemy on the forum, namely, me. You won't win this, you can't win this. Better men than you have tried, better men than you have failed.

You see, I've been around for a long time, you could say I'm a part of the furniture. I've done the trolling, I've taken the bans, I've outlasted the likes of you better than anyone else.

So, you can either concede now and walk away with some dignity, or you can continue this and lose all respect.

The choice is....yours.

Taken would have been shyte if Liam Neelson gave a speech like that.:p:pac:

SlickRic

and we're done.

this thread was executed badly, and has just gone downhill.

sorry to those who wanted to have a proper debate about this...if someone wants start a proper discussion on it, you're welcome to try, because it could be a decent discussion if it's done maturely.

but not in this guise.

i'll move the decent posts from here in if someone does want to do that.