Trade in 2004 Honda Jazz for 2004 BMW 320D ?

Soul Stretcher

Hi All

Apologies if this is tiresome but just looking for some advice from car-knowledgeable folk please.

Bought a 2004 1.4 Honda Jazz three years ago and it has done it's job very well. No mechanical issues. Very practical car with folding seats etc.

The only thing it is lacking is a bit of excitement and a bit of effortless smoothness on long trips.

The Jazz is a great car around town but I don't get a kick out of driving it.

I'm 32, single, no kids and employed and have never had a "driver's" car.

I'm thinking maybe now's the time to have a bit of fun. Here is what I'm looking at :

BMW Model: 3 Series 320 D SALOON SE Engine: 2.0 Diesel Price: €8,950 Year: 2004 Colour: Black Mileage: 76,000 miles

The Honda (83K on her at moment) has been bullet-proof since I bought her and I foresee no major problems. Doing research on-line (e.g. Honest John) has led me to believe that the 3 Series is liable to start giving expensive-to-fix problems at around 10 yrs old. I don't really want to take on something that will have me forking out money all the time.

Just looking for opinions on people's experiences on 2004 Diesel 3 series as regards reliability ?? If anyone has any. I know it can come down to the luck of the draw when buying 2nd hand but I just don't want to do something obviously foolish.

Thanks a mill

unkel

What kinda mileage do you do? I'm guessing it's not that high and if so, I wouldn't buy a diesel.

And why a saloon if you're single with no kids? Why not a coupe?

The E46 coupe is a beautiful car and with a relatively powerful 2.5 or 3.0l 6 cylinder petrol engine you'll get all the fun / excitement you want. The engine is long proven, reliable and very smooth and refined

This is a 330ci M-sport

Soul Stretcher

Thanks for that. Beautiful car alright.

Mileage- approx 10k a year. I've no objection to petrol so I will take that on board. To be honest, the relative weakness of the Jazz 1339cc had the thought of driving a 2L diesel watering my mouth at the idea of the grunt and torque available !

The reason I want a saloon is because my Dad (Mother doesn't drive) hasn't got his own car. I do leave my car with him during the day while I'm at work (I cycle to work) so he can use to do messages etc. So any family occasions I do be ferrying all of us. For example, tomorrow night I'm ferrying 3 passengers and 3 suitcases to the Airport and I don't think a coupe would hold all that.

If I had no-one to think of but myself then yes the coupe would be ideal. Maybe I should have included that in my OP. I'd rather a saloon though for the reason above.

166man

Petrol would be your best option at that mileage you are doing, nicer to own too. Besides a 2004 Diesel could have a whole host of problems diesel engine related in it's future.

I prefer the older model 3 series and the UK could be an option to bring in a nice 3 series petrol. I assume you're budgeting around 9k ish?

This looks nice so

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/325-I-E9/201123202810981/advert?channel=CARS

If you do look to the UK, this car looks stunning

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201138417051328/sort/priceasc/usedcars/fuel-type/petrol/price-to/7000/maximum-age/up_to_10_years_old/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/transmission/manual/colour/silver/body-type/saloon/model/3_series/make/bmw/radius/1500/postcode/sw1a0aa/page/1/keywords/325i?logcode=p

PaulKK

Hi OP,

I have a 2004 320d and I would recommend one.

I see you do low enough mileage, many will say that your mileage will not warrant a diesel, but I would do some maths and see what the actual cost for a year is.

These do not have DPFs etc so low mileage should not be a big problem.
Also the 2004 models have swirl flap issues resolved that you may have read about.

I have had mine for nearly 2 years and 40K miles and all that I have needed to replace was a split flexi joint on the front cat (I decatted to stainless steel when this happened). Mine has 102K miles now.

I drive on regional roads a lot and my average to date on 18 inch wheels is 45/46 MPG.

The car is brisk enough and I think the E46 still looks quite well so I would certainly recommend it.

Soul Stretcher

Those are cool cars 166man.
I've only been looking at Dealers so far as I will be trading in the Jazz and a Private Seller will only want cash. I'm not a big Car person so don't want to sell the Jazz myself before buying the new car.

The same thing with importing from the UK - too much hassle for me and a bit dangerous too maybe considering my lack of knowledge.

Basically I just want to find the car, drive the Jazz into the dealers and drive away with the new car. I may pay more for the privilege of being so lazy but that's ok. I'm also pretty keen on getting a Warranty from the Dealer. The one selling the 320 D offers a "Comprehensive" Warranty - will have to find out how long it lasts/what it covers.

The idea of an Octavia VRS has occurred to me. I've seen the following on car zone:
Price €7,999 Engine 2.0 Petrol Year 2006 Colour Metallic Silver Mileage 76,000 M / 122,310 KM 200 HP

Surely that is too good to be true ?

I'd hazard the Skoda might be more reliable and cheaper to maintain than the BMW but I much prefer the look of the Black 320 D. From the photos, it looks like a very clean car but I've yet to see it in person.

Soul Stretcher

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/320-D-SA/201129203470882/advert?channel=CARS
link to 320 D

166man

Soul Stretcher wrote: »

Those are cool cars 166man.
I've only been looking at Dealers so far as I will be trading in the Jazz and a Private Seller will only want cash. I'm not a big Car person so don't want to sell the Jazz myself before buying the new car.

The same thing with importing from the UK - too much hassle for me and a bit dangerous too maybe considering my lack of knowledge.

Basically I just want to find the car, drive the Jazz into the dealers and drive away with the new car. I may pay more for the privilege of being so lazy but that's ok. I'm also pretty keen on getting a Warranty from the Dealer. The one selling the 320 D offers a "Comprehensive" Warranty - will have to find out how long it lasts/what it covers.

The idea of an Octavia VRS has occurred to me. I've seen the following on car zone:
Price €7,999 Engine 2.0 Petrol Year 2006 Colour Metallic Silver Mileage 76,000 M / 122,310 KM 200 HP

Surely that is too good to be true ?

I'd hazard the Skoda might be more reliable and cheaper to maintain than the BMW but I much prefer the look of the Black 320 D. From the photos, it looks like a very clean car but I've yet to see it in person.

Ah right buying from a dealer can be far more reassuring I'd say. An octavia might suit the needs too. Have you a link to the BMW?

Soul Stretcher

The Carzone ad says it's 1.9 but the Dealer's web-site says 2.0 L.

Presume 2.0 L is correct ?

commited

That's serious money for a 2004 320d surely? My mate sold his 2 years ago for 11500 with less miles. Judging by that steering wheel I wouldn't be surprised if the mileage was lower than the truth. If it's real then it's had a city life which isn't good.

Yes trading in a car at a dealer is easy but it's also an easy way of flushing your money down the toilet. I would imagine the warranty is only 3 months (but I am willing to be corrected) and using it will be a hassle. Jazz's are easy to sell second hand, so I'd look to buy a car privately. Your car should sell for around 3500-4000. You could look at the whole experience another way - put the money that you save from not trading in the car and buying from a dealer (could easily add up to a couple of thousand) will cover whatever "warranty" repairs that could occur. Buying a car with Full Service History will carry better piece of mind than a 3 month warranty.

I've had experience of both the e46 (the 3 series you're buying) and the e39 (the 5 series of the same generation) and I'll share my opinions on the two. First of all, for your mileage petrol has to be the answer and if you're buying a BMW then the 6 pots are the engines to have. As the 320i/520i cars are 2.2l engines, the 325i/525i cars are only slightly more to tax and they're generally cheaper to buy which offsets the higher road tax!

The e39 is the better car over all - the perfect balance between dynamic driving experience and mile muncher. I had a 530d Sport a few years back and it's still one of the best cars I've driven. The e46 is a slightly more focused drivers car but the room in the back is pretty poxy and they don't really do anything better than the e46 imho. Lots of lower spec e46's on the market too.

Some cars worth considering:
2002 525i Sport - 3900. Looks a little bit skangered. Good spec.
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/201122202630578/advert?channel=CARS

2003 525i Sport - 4500. Great colour, has new tyres, leather and cruise.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2469289

2003 325i Sport - 4550. Looks a small bit skangered but could be ok.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2435555

2005 325i e90 - 7650. New model.
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/3MONTHS-/201122202691720/advert?channel=CARS

Whether you pick an e39, e46 or e90 make sure you get as much kit as possible in them. You might as well go the whole hog! Cruise control is a must, as is leather imho. My preference in any BMW is the Sport model but some people prefer the SE. My advice is to go and test drive a 325i SE, 325i Sport, 525i Sport and see which you prefer! Also test auto vs manual - the automatics are pretty good although manuals are definitely the drivers choice.

Last point is that you need to understand that neither an e46 nor an e39 will be anywhere as near as cheap as your Jazz to run. Realistically price per km will at least double so you have to make sure that you think it's worth it and can afford it!

I'd get a next model e90 330i or 325i saloon if I was you, much better value than a 320 e46 coupe.
I dunno what HonestJohn or anyone else reckons will happen a 320d at 10 years old though.

Soul Stretcher

Thanks very much for the thoughtful responses.

I think I'm convinced on petrol over diesel.

I'm leaning towards a 3 Series as opposed to a 5 Series as my father is 63 and not as good a driver as he used to be (Thank God he won't see this :pac:)... I'm just thinking about him parking a 5 Series in a tight space etc.
This might sound like nit-picking but the lack of a spare tyre in the newer type 3 Series is a bit of worry. What happens if you get a puncture in the middle of nowhere - does that can of foam-stuff you get with it work well ?

As regards engines, yes I'll think I'll for the more powerful ones - 325i - might as well go the whole hog. Don't know how firm a ride the Sport versions have - especially with run-flat tires. The Jazz is quite firm so I'm more interested in something smoother.

As regards selling and buying privately vs trading in with Dealer - yes I accept the Dealer will scalp me for a couple of grand but to be honest, I might get scalped anyway doing it privately - I'm not a great Del-boy Trotter. Also the hassle of advertising Jazz, showing it off to timewasters etc etc.. Also I know nothing about mechanics so wouldn't be confident just turning up to some dude's house and test-driving his car. I feel at least with a reputable Dealer, they will have given it a good looking-over.

I was on the Net last night looking at finance options and apparently personal loans are running at well over 10 percent interest so that has turned me off.

I've 4 grand coming to me in December from work. So I'll use that to purchase the new car along with the Jazz trade-in. (I have no Debt and am not inclined to get any on - especially at over 10%). On a side note, the Jazz is a fabulous run-around.. the only thing it lacks is a bit of smoothness on the long journey.. if it had that it would be perfect and, of course, a bit of raw power.

Also I'm thinking if I hold off until January 2012, not only will I have 4 grand cash in hand, but there will be a load of trade-ins hitting the Dealers ??

Today I actually thought about keeping the Jazz for my father and buying a coupe/sports car for myself for 4 grand approx.. but then I thought it would be too much maintaining, taxing, insuring 2 cars.

So looks like I'm waiting till January - will keep on the lookout in the mean-time.

Thanks a mill for all your help.

Soul Stretcher

p.s. I currently put 200 squid aside every month into a "Car" account to pay for all car expenses apart from petrol.. Hopefully that will enough to run a Beemer unless something major goes wrong.

bazz26

OP, I hear what you are saying about not being confident enough buying privately but the best choice in BMW 325i/330i seems to be on the private market:

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201131203689853

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201123202810981

unkel

Soul Stretcher wrote: »

p.s. I currently put 200 squid aside every month into a "Car" account to pay for all car expenses apart from petrol.. Hopefully that will enough to run a Beemer unless something major goes wrong.

If €200 will cover it for a little 1.4 supermini, then no, it will not cover it for a large 6-cylinder engined BMW. You have to be realistic here. Motor tax alone is €333 for the Jazz but €935 for a 2.5l. Did you check insurance?

And about the parking of a large car, I wouldn't let that put me off buying a 5-series, just make sure it has PDC (park distance control).

PaulKK

Soul Stretcher wrote: »

p.s. I currently put 200 squid aside every month into a "Car" account to pay for all car expenses apart from petrol.. Hopefully that will enough to run a Beemer unless something major goes wrong.

I put 170 a month into a deposit account for my 320d for costs apart from fuel and it works fine for me. I get my tyres online and change the oil myself though. I service it every 8k miles however and it nearly costs me as much as bringing it to the dealers. In my opinion, an e46 325i is a lovely car and you would get one for less than a 320d, but the real world performance is not going to be hugely different to a 320d, except you have running costs of a 6 cyclinder petrol. I would do your maths for total cost of ownership though, the 325i may well be the best option at your mileage.

Soul Stretcher

Thanks for that.

The 200 a month is way more than is necessary to maintain the Jazz. For example, last February I took 800 euro out of it to buy a new bicycle (I justified it as a "transportation" cost ) and today there is a grand sitting in it. Maintenance on the Jazz is minimal.

I realize a 6 cylinder petrol will be more expensive but I'm a light drinker, don't smoke, am debt-free and earning the average industrial wage so I should be able to carry it off. May just need to bump that 200 a month up a bit.

Yeah I'm kind of sold on the idea of a 325i. It's just finding one now from a trustworthy source.

PaulKK

Sounds like your similar to myself except i do more than twice your mileage In fairness at 10k miles a year i'd prob be in a 325i myself. Sounds like you have thought it through properly, good luck with the search!

dharn

would think you would sell your jazz privately, no bother worth a try as would be suitable for first car buyer then you could buy your beemer of choice i have owned 3 petrol 3 series and now drive 06 320d, the midrange torque puts a smile on my face every time i drive it i missed the revviness of petrol engine at first but soon got used to the diesel i found the low rev torque very poor on the bmw petrol engines (only 318s ) throttle response is better in the 320d, i used to average 35 mpg in the 318 now get 45 with better acceleration

challengemaster

That's stupid money for a 04 320d, I got a 05 320cd a few weeks ago for 7,5k including €1906 VRT

heate

I really woulnt bother with a diesel if your doing 10k a year! And I wouldn't bother going for an e46 when you can have an e90 that doesn't originate from the mid 90's.
A 325i 05 onwards as suggested by others here is perfect for your needs and has a good bit of poke.
The saloon is a fine car an with the right spec is quite comfortable.
As for the run flat issue well most have been removed at this stage due to their replacemet costs and you'll find a space saver in the boot (there is an area for storing this beneath the level of the boot).