6th Ed

The Skulls

So according to Beasts Of War & numerous other websites it seems that GW are going to release 40K 6th edition in time for summer next year, what do you think will happen? Will it be a pointless tweak? A radical departure? After the fiasco of finecast I hope they take the opportunity to get it right.

riffmongous

I hope not, I really disliked some of the changes they made with the most recent edition of WH Fantasy, I dont like the focus on bigger battles they seem to have and I guess they will try and make 40k like that too.

On a positive note though it should me another new set of great cheap miniatures like Black Reach.

Nody

The Skulls wrote: »

So according to Beasts Of War & numerous other websites it seems that GW are going to release 40K 6th edition in time for summer next year, what do you think will happen? Will it be a pointless tweak? A radical departure? After the fiasco of finecast I hope they take the opportunity to get it right.

I expect a major overhaul on vehicles. The fact you use the same table (and got pretty much same chance with a MM) to kill a 30p Rhino or a 250p Landraider is silly and needs to be fixed. It also neuters codexes that can't roll good/plenty of AP1 weapons in 5th (Orks, Nids etc.) as mech is king (in general, there are a few good foot lists but most are mech/hybrid).

gaza4

The Skulls wrote: »

After the fiasco of finecast I hope they take the opportunity to get it right.

what happened there??? you talkin bout the Resin models they do now???

The Skulls

gaza4 wrote: »

The Skulls wrote: »

After the fiasco of finecast I hope they take the opportunity to get it right.

what happened there??? you talkin bout the Resin models they do now???

Yes, have you seen the price of them? That's mostly what I mean, if I want overpriced miniatures then I'll get them from forgeworld.

gaza4

The Skulls wrote: »

Yes, have you seen the price of them? That's mostly what I mean, if I want overpriced miniatures then I'll get them from forgeworld.

yeah its a bit mad alright, apparently the detail on them is amazing but i can see much difference between the pics on the site and the pics in old codexes i have, in fact i'm nearly sure they are the same models!!!

Nody

gaza4 wrote: »

yeah its a bit mad alright, apparently the detail on them is amazing but i can see much difference between the pics on the site and the pics in old codexes i have, in fact i'm nearly sure they are the same models!!!

They reused the metal moulds for it yes.

grugni

Cant imagine what changes are going to be brought into 6th edition. I heard a rumour a while back they where developing a plug in book like cities of death or planet strike that focused on more air units in the game.

But I think they will focus on bigger and bigger battles to try and get people to buy more minis

Sigard

I'd like to think the new edition will tweak those unit types that players don't regularly use, partly to balance the game, but also to push the under-selling kits.

If I were to speculate, I'd see vehicles being changed (as has been discussed above), and maybe bikes or jump packs boosted in some way to make them a more appealing choice (then again, maybe all they need is a points decrease).

Scenarios could do with more variety, especially if GW want to push the narrative side of the game.

Wound allocation has its pro's and cons, but should probably be tweaked to avoid abuse by Nob bikers and DW command squads. I say this as a Dark Angel and Ork player

Psychology could do with a change too, as at present, most armies pretty much ignore it, while, in WHFB, psychology is a hugely important aspect of the game. One that can change the flow of a game very quickly if things go pear shaped.

CruelCoin

I hope they tweak the codices to ensure no unit is seen as "useless".

Speaking as an ork player, there are far too many units in the book that are widely viewed as useless filler, that should be avoided like the plague if you want to win from time to time.

New races like the Tau need work in balancing, especially since they should by now have lots of data to compare performance versus other races.

As far as rules go, i'd love to see an introduction of a system that would eliminate the need for huge numbers of dice.

If i take a 2000 point footslogger army to a game, the literal bucke of dice i need to roll (hits, wounds, saves, etc) is such a pain in the ass.

I don't know what that system could look like, but all i know is i want the buckit'o'dice gone without having to give up my boyz!

Mantel

CruelCoin wrote: »

New races like the Tau need work in balancing, especially since they should by now have lots of data to compare performance versus other races.

I think we'll see the Tau come up sometime next year, it's been awhile since we've seen a codex refresh for them, sure it was 4th edition when they last seen the light of new models.

The upcoming Necron codex might show the way 6th will go, if the rumours of 6th coming soon enough are true then the Necron codex will be built with the 6th in mind.

Probably the only armies I wouldn't start to collect now would be the older metal heavy ones since they'll be replaced with new models or finecast stuff but I'm sure we'll see a roll out of plastic kits for most stuff in time.

Nody

CruelCoin wrote: »

I hope they tweak the codices to ensure no unit is seen as "useless".

There will always be models that are seen as "useless"; even in a codex such as GK which is seen as top of the line one. This don't include the fact GW aims to see certain models and they tend to be "enchanted".

Speaking as an ork player, there are far too many units in the book that are widely viewed as useless filler, that should be avoided like the plague if you want to win from time to time.

There will always be fluff units because of lore.

New races like the Tau need work in balancing, especially since they should by now have lots of data to compare performance versus other races.

Never going to happen and GW likes to believe people want fluffy rainbow style armies; not competitive once (hence scoring in what they support accordingly with painting, sportsmanship, how fluffy the army is as part of deciding over all tournament winners instead of in separate categories). This of course also excludes the fact it is an Xenox army which tend to get worse treatment (both in codex and F.A.Q) then any Imperial army (exception being Sisters botch job).

As far as rules go, i'd love to see an introduction of a system that would eliminate the need for huge numbers of dice.

If i take a 2000 point footslogger army to a game, the literal bucke of dice i need to roll (hits, wounds, saves, etc) is such a pain in the ass.

I don't know what that system could look like, but all i know is i want the buckit'o'dice gone without having to give up my boyz!

Only thing coming to mind would be roll one dice for ten or similar set up :P

riffmongous

CruelCoin wrote: »

If i take a 2000 point footslogger army to a game, the literal bucke of dice i need to roll (hits, wounds, saves, etc) is such a pain in the ass.

I don't know what that system could look like, but all i know is i want the buckit'o'dice gone without having to give up my boyz!

Most historical wargame systems use a table+ modifers + die roll system of calculating shooting/combat to eliminate the need for buckets of dice (e.g. 5 elite heavy cavalry charging 10 militia archers cause 3 casualties on a roll of 1, 4 on a roll of 2...) with the one game exception I know being Warhammer Historical.

I don't think GW will ever use a system like that though, it works fine for the small range of historical units there is but it wouldn't translate well into GW games where the use of profile stats allows for a far greater range of units.

grugni

To be honest I really enjoy rolling a massive amount of dice, it makes me imagine how much carnage, firepower etc is going on.
Im remember on particular game where 150+ dice where rolled for imperial guardsmen lasgun shots. Was awesome, and they where being fired at my army!!!!
The most important thing for me in 6th is not the core rulebook itself, its the individual codexes. I would rather see 5th stay and balancing and adjustments done to existing codexes to make them all (and all units contained ) usable
Being a necron player I have never used Pariahs for instance.

grugni

Latest rumours suggest a 6th edition boxset of Chaos Vs Dark Angels. Wonder if that means a dark angels codex release before the release of 6th?

gaza4

grugni wrote: »

Latest rumours suggest a 6th edition boxset of Chaos Vs Dark Angels. Wonder if that means a dark angels codex release before the release of 6th?

thats sounds pretty awesome. i am currently a chaos collector and i have a big soft spot for dark angels since they were my first army way back in 3rd edition so i would probly pick up this set if it comes out...

Mantel

gaza4 wrote: »

thats sounds pretty awesome. i am currently a chaos collector and i have a big soft spot for dark angels since they were my first army way back in 3rd edition so i would probly pick up this set if it comes out...

I think a good few people will pick it up if it's anything like Black Reach. Hopefully they'll have something intresting although the Deffkopter from BR is a bit strange, only place to get it! Hope they don't do that again.

The Skulls

So who picked it up? I have & I must say I think it's good overall. Not too sure about 'snap shot' as I feel this will give shooty armies potentially too much of an edge, think the allies matrix should have been given a bit more thought. Would have thought that GW would have released a 'black reach' type box set. Maybe it's a change of business direction? Overall I think it's good, now I just need time & opponents ðŸ˜

grugni

One of my friends got a game of it there yesterday, said the entire game system was more streamlined and has removed some of the more frustrating aspects of 5th edition. I have yet to give it a try, I want to read the book in its entirety first!!!

GW put up the 6th edition FAQ's for all codex's last night, I would check them out to see what they do to your army!!!!

Nody

grugni wrote: »

One of my friends got a game of it there yesterday, said the entire game system was more streamlined and has removed some of the more frustrating aspects of 5th edition. I have yet to give it a try, I want to read the book in its entirety first!!!

GW put up the 6th edition FAQ's for all codex's last night, I would check them out to see what they do to your army!!!!

Make you buy fliers or you'll die to fliers basically...

grugni

Nody wrote: »

Make you buy fliers or you'll die to fliers basically...

Is it really that bad?

Nody

grugni wrote: »

Is it really that bad?

Only fliers, one IG gun (Flak gun who no longer can hit ground targets) and fixed gun emplacements can hit fliers on anything but 6s (and those 6s are with a 4+ cover save on top of it). If someone goes all out flier army (like IG or Necrons) they can spend the whole game flying around shooting down stuff while you hope you'll roll 6s to hit with your AT weapons (vs. AV 12/13).

Basically it's the rhino of 5th edition; the item GW wish to push hard for sales this edition is fliers so they get stupid rules to make it so. There are more rules in there to make it easier to deal with but GW in their infinite wisdom did not add it to any units (expect them to be on all new units you need to buy with the new codex releases in finecast style).

Waking-Dreams

The Skulls wrote: »

Would have thought that GW would have released a 'black reach' type box set. Maybe it's a change of business direction?

There'll be a boxed set coming in September I believe.

I suppose by releasing a new rulebook now they'll ensure that existing gamers will want to own one right away instead of waiting longer and picking up the boxed set with some miniatures. In fairness, the new rulebook is lovely, as they only put a skimmed down version into the boxed sets (though it's handy for bringing with you to games/tournaments).

Red_Wake

Missile Launchers have the Skyfire rule for Flakk Missiles.

So Fliers aren't as awesome as they're made out to be.

grugni

I thought with the new allies rules that GW would be making more cash by allowing players to field units outside of their core army.

I hope the fliers wont ruin the game, Ive played too many games against cheese lists. I was hoping that this edition might bring some balance

Nody

Red_Wake wrote: »

Missile Launchers have the Skyfire rule for Flakk Missiles.

So Fliers aren't as awesome as they're made out to be.

Feel free to find any missile launcher unit(s) F.A.Q.ed to actually have Flakk missiles (I'll give you a hint, the number so far is below 1 which goes back to my other post about new Codex finecast units to deal with fliers).

Mantel

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought's get the Skyfire rule when standing still...

Another expensive model just to get AA.

geeky

I know it's a pain in the backside for armies that don't have skyfire troops or flyers, but I do think the rule change is pretty accurate - air support or dominance being critical.

Also, any army can pick up a fortification with an icarus lascannon, which will shoot those birdies right out of the air.

Mantel

There's a new mission book from GW due out at the start of December which promises some "expanded rules for Flyers", some other units might get anti-air or there could be mission specific dangers for flyers or they could be banned outright from the underground scenario that's mentioned.

Nody

Mantel wrote: »

There's a new mission book from GW due out at the start of December which promises some "expanded rules for Flyers", some other units might get anti-air or there could be mission specific dangers for flyers or they could be banned outright from the underground scenario that's mentioned.

Expect more beneficial (yet random "roll on a table is fun") rules for bringing fliers as it's GW's current sales cow for flogging models that people did not have before. I'd not expect fliers to take any significant nerf until next expansion honestly (plastic metal boxes in last expansion, fliers in this one).