Dunphy Show Sun 02/10 & FG tweet!

Sir Oxman

Mitchell v McGuinness

...and according to a very angry Mitchell, himself v McG & Dunphy!

The first actual 'debate' as such - the pleasantries are well and truly over!

Podcast should be available later today.

Threats of Broadcasting Complaints action from Mitchell against Dunphy, McG replying to Hogan's daft accusations (IMO) about MNCs pulling out etc if people vote in McG, accusations of taking the 'Queen's shilling' from Mitchell.

The politics they are debating is stuff they can do feck all about if elected but it sure is more interesting than the Radio1 and LLS talk-in!

JonathanAnon

Ah ffs.. and here I am listening to George Hook on with Finucane.. Marian talking about how to balance budgets.. She should have a few words with the financial controller in RTE if she knows that much about it..

Newstalk are quick enough up with the podcasts anyway.. I'll catch it after lunch..

Sir Oxman

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Ah ffs.. and here I am listening to George Hook on with Finucane.. Marian talking about how to balance budgets.. She should have a few words with the financial controller in RTE if she knows that much about it..

Newstalk are quick enough up with the podcasts anyway.. I'll catch it after lunch..

Well worth the listen Jon, the first part definitely - Mitchell and Dunphy have calmed down after the 12oc news. I wish I had tuned in on the webcast of it to see Mitchells head-vein a-poppin'.

Dunphy has just read out a tweet from the govt chief whip saying why would McG need the salary when he has the proceeds from the big bank robbery!

Dunphy has confirmed the tweet, if so FG have jumped the shark with both Hogan and Keogh - two senior members of govt!

FG really do dirty elections!

jonniebgood1

Very worth while discussion.
The bias of Dunphy is not veiled which has actually added to the debate IMO. It was very interesting to see Mitchell go on the attack and IMO devour both the host and McGuinness in the first part of the interview. He is clearly marking himself as the man who is'nt Martin McGuinness and I would say it will boost his ratings.

Sir Oxman

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Very worth while discussion.
The bias of Dunphy is not veiled which has actuall added to the debate IMO. It was very interesting to see Mitchell go on the attack and IMO devour both the host and McGuinness in the first part of the interview. He is clearly marking himself as the man who is'nt Martin McGuinness and I would say it will boost his ratings.

The 2nd part has just been punctuated by that govt chief whip tweet!

Mitchell certainly didn't take any prisoners in that first part!

https://twitter.com/#!/govchiefwhip/statuses/120445834067320833

jonniebgood1

gambiaman wrote: »

The 2nd part has just been punctuated by that govt chief whip tweet!

Mitchell certainly didn't take any prisoners in that first part!

https://twitter.com/#!/govchiefwhip/statuses/120445834067320833

Its not the first time I have heard such a smart arsed comment regarding the bank raid. The person most offended by this was Dunphy. Neither of the guests seemed bothered.

Sir Oxman

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Its not the first time I have heard such a smart arsed comment regarding the bank raid. The person most offended by this was Dunphy. Neither of the guests seemed bothered.

It's the Govt Chief Whip though - I wonder is he a SF double agent?

jonniebgood1

gambiaman wrote: »

It's the Govt Chief Whip though - I wonder is he a SF double agent?

I think that people voting would take more from what is stated by Keogh than the fact that it can be interpreted as being a 'dirty' tactic. I.e. the comment is made so the media will focus on it and question McGuinness in relation to it. Mitchell has already distanced himself from the comment saying he will stand over what he himself states. Is that dirty tactics or clever? I don't think it matters which.

Sir Oxman

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

I think that people voting would take more from what is stated by Keogh than the fact that it can be interpreted as being a 'dirty' tactic. I.e. the comment is made so the media will focus on it and question McGuinness in relation to it. Mitchell has already distanced himself from the comment saying he will stand over what he himself states. Is that dirty tactics or clever? I don't think it matters which.

Of course, a quick short statement will bring a subject to focus but it also reflects on the person who made the statement, and his position.

So far, I've heard the Minister of Justice and Defence (setting up a possible crisis and bananaskin for himslef down the road), Minister of Environment (reusing Lisbon2 scare tactics over jobs) and now the govt chief whip (tweeting possible slander, I mean come on) indulge in dirty politicking in the presidential election, all against one candidate btw - I'm not naive and most of the electorate aren't either, I know politics is dirty but I firmly believe serving ministers should never be involved in this type of campaigning in a presidential election.

What if McG is elected President - these are people that will have to work with him, they are not simply party hacks they are holders of state offices.

thebman

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Very worth while discussion.
The bias of Dunphy is not veiled which has actually added to the debate IMO. It was very interesting to see Mitchell go on the attack and IMO devour both the host and McGuinness in the first part of the interview. He is clearly marking himself as the man who is'nt Martin McGuinness and I would say it will boost his ratings.

Haven't heard what happened myself but going on the attack in a presidential election is a silly thing to do IMO.

I can't see how he can hope to boost his ratings by attacking other candidates at all TBH.

Such nonsense and dirty politics will only lose him support IMO. FG in damage limitation mode and just wanting to get above McGuinness in the polls IMO.

hotmail.com

FG are having a hissy fit because they know their candidate is rubbish. I missed today but from what I've heard it was a disaster for Mitchell, because I've no doubt McGuinness just stayed calm throughout.

Anyone know when this will be online?

kc87

hotmail.com wrote: »

FG are having a hissy fit because they know their candidate is rubbish. I missed today but from what I've heard it was a disaster for Mitchell, because I've no doubt McGuinness just stayed calm throughout.

Anyone know when this will be online?

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/32893/sunday/1/popup

it's up now

caseyann

gambiaman wrote: »

Mitchell v McGuinness

...and according to a very angry Mitchell, himself v McG & Dunphy!

The first actual 'debate' as such - the pleasantries are well and truly over!

Podcast should be available later today.

Threats of Broadcasting Complaints action from Mitchell against Dunphy, McG replying to Hogan's daft accusations (IMO) about MNCs pulling out etc if people vote in McG, accusations of taking the 'Queen's shilling' from Mitchell.

The politics they are debating is stuff they can do feck all about if elected but it sure is more interesting than the Radio1 and LLS talk-in!

All the pathetic comments coming from Mitchell shows how crap of a campaign he and F Gael have.They dont feel they can win against Martin without screaming about the IRA.As witnessed with Kehoe tweet also.
I know who i am voting to keep out of the Áras now.Having them dirty slime bags with hands in all areas of the Dáil and then Áras is a very bad idea.
They did dirty elections already and here we go again.

Plus saying Americans would be disgusted if we voted him in.Complete rubbish. lol

Wolfe Tone

Listening now, Gay has lost the plot and is making things up about MMG taking an MPs salary, lol

JonathanAnon

Just pulling down the podcast... I think it is a bit worrying though, that the only thing that seems to get Gay Mitchell enthused, is when he is attacking the Shinners..

Nodin

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Just pulling down the podcast... I think it is a bit worrying though, that the only thing that seems to get Gay Mitchell enthused, is when he is attacking the Shinners..

O I'm sure if they let him go on about the Iona institute, 'Family values' and the like he'd get all revved up as well. Presumably theres a handler behind him with a net and a tranq gun in the eventuality.

DreadedJudge

I am listening to the podcast and think Dunphy is being really unfair. Actually Gay Mitchell has gone up in my estimation.

jonniebgood1

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Listening now, Gay has lost the plot and is making things up about MMG taking an MPs salary, lol

Losing the plot? He asked McG to produce evidence of his income last year. Surely that is fair given that McG is making a big issue of his industrial average income. The fact that McG didnt respond by saying he would prove income makes me think that there are legs on that one? Maybe im just cynical!

Wolfe Tone

Mitchell foaming at the mouth today, The Chief Whips tweets, Phil Hogan spouting absolute rubbish, wow, the political establishment are really sh!tting themselves at the prospect of Martin winning.

Dunphy was right, Mitchell made a fool of himself.

Wolfe Tone

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Losing the plot? He asked McG to produce evidence of his income last year. Surely that is fair given that McG is making a big issue of his industrial average income. The fact that McG didnt respond by saying he would prove income makes me think that there are legs on that one? Maybe im just cynical!

Maybe you should listen to the program... He said that he would open his accounts for everyone to see and that he was sure SF would do the same too in order to verify his income.

Mitchell said that MMG takes an MPs salary, thats clearly a lie.

johngalway

DreadedJudge wrote: »

I am listening to the podcast and think Dunphy is being really unfair. Actually Gay Mitchell has gone up in my estimation.

Regarding Dunphy. He was one half of the interviewees last...... Wednesday I believe it was on that newstalk programme that starts at 12 noon. Dunphy and the presenter were about as balanced as a see-saw with an elephant on one end and a mouse on the other. The other interviewee I think was Fintan O'Toole. The interview was in relation to MMG and comments comparing him with Nelson Mandela. Goes on for about half an hour and is really worth a listen.

Dunphy is no where near "fair".

Coillte_Bhoy

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Losing the plot? He asked McG to produce evidence of his income last year. Surely that is fair given that McG is making a big issue of his industrial average income. The fact that McG didnt respond by saying he would prove income makes me think that there are legs on that one? Maybe im just cynical!

Didnt McGuinness say he would quit happily have his bank accounts etc published?

Nodin

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Mitchell foaming at the mouth today, The Chief Whips tweets, Phil Hogan spouting absolute rubbish, wow, the political establishment are really sh!tting themselves at the prospect of Martin winning.

Dunphy was right, Mitchell made a fool of himself.

Poor oul Gay. It was so much easier when they had Section 31.

maccored

have to laugh at Mitchell's 'I didnt take to the gun ...' .. hahaha. I didnt realise the south was in the same situation as the north in those days.

Godge

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Maybe you should listen to the program... He said that he would open his accounts for everyone to see and that he was sure SF would do the same too in order to verify his income.

Mitchell said that MMG takes an MPs salary, thats clearly a lie.

Great, at last we will get to see how all that bank robbery and intimidation money was spent over the years.


SF accounts will make for very interesting reading.

maccored

yeah, talking about the bank robbery money ..... it would be interesting if there was anything whatsoever to point to the pira. how many years ago was that? what has ever been proven? how many investigations? I suppose trial by media is much fairer is it?

MadsL

Didnt McGuinness say he would quit happily have his bank accounts etc published?

Would or will. Big difference?

If Sinn Fién open their accounts will they also show where the US fundraising monies went in the 70 & 80's?

However maybe we can now force Mitchell to publish his expenses.

jonniebgood1

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Mitchell foaming at the mouth today, The Chief Whips tweets, Phil Hogan spouting absolute rubbish, wow, the political establishment are really sh!tting themselves at the prospect of Martin winning.

Dunphy was right, Mitchell made a fool of himself.

Is Dunphy a fair judge- he has already come out in favour of MMcG thus the interview was 2 vs. 1. To say 'Dunphy was right' without context is very naive.

jonniebgood1

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Maybe you should listen to the program... He said that he would open his accounts for everyone to see and that he was sure SF would do the same too in order to verify his income.

Mitchell said that MMG takes an MPs salary, thats clearly a lie.

This to is very naive. Would you believe his accounts? Regarding lies I don't know that Mitchell told a lie as I have'nt seen the evidence (I wouldnt particularly doubt it though-he is a politician!). However lies seem to be common in this. MMcG says he is not a Sinn Fein candidate????

MadsL

MMG needs to man up and admit that he takes expenses to maintain flats in London.

caseyann

MadsL wrote: »

MMG needs to man up and admit that he takes expenses to maintain flats in London.

Link of proof?

Wolfe Tone

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Is Dunphy a fair judge- he has already come out in favour of MMcG thus the interview was 2 vs. 1. To say 'Dunphy was right' without context is very naive.

I said Dunphy was right in saying that Gay made a fool of himself...

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

This to is very naive. Would you believe his accounts? Regarding lies I don't know that Mitchell told a lie as I have'nt seen the evidence (I wouldnt particularly doubt it though-he is a politician!). However lies seem to be common in this. MMcG says he is not a Sinn Fein candidate????

Ah, so no matter what you are presented with you will simply maintain that MMG is a liar and is taking 200 grand a year or whatever the amount is. I won't be wasting time engaging with you in future if thats the attitude and agenda you have.

Dirk Gently

listened to the first 30 minutes so far. Mitchell seems to be all hot air and no substance tbh. I thought M mc G answered everything put to him calmly and in clear detail. Mitchell then decides to shout and ask the questions again in an attempt to make it look like he didnt answer? car crash performance from mitchel so far tbh.

I've very little interest in the Presidential election but I'm almost swayed to vote for M mc G just as a protest against the childish campaign against him, both the usual FG tactics and the general media offensive. 94% of people in the republic voted for SF to sit down and share power with the DUP in the north. At the very least that gives a SF candidate the right to run for office in the republic free from dirty campaigns, otherwise we should apologise to the unionists for having double standards.

washman3

Be prepared for plenty attacks like this on MMG in the next few weeks.
The tweet from Hogan was outrageous, himself a true blueshirt to the bone
whose only contribution since his election is stealth tax after stealth tax on the already financially crippled people of the nation.
MMG is a huge threat to the smugness and cosy cartels these guys operate. the same guys that told us all it made perfect sense to vote for the GF agreement (which it did) and allow MMG and Paisley to powershare.
Hypocrits of the highest order.

P.S. funny to see the FG apologists posting furiously.!!!

jonniebgood1

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I said Dunphy was right in saying that Gay made a fool of himself...

Ah, so no matter what you are presented with you will simply maintain that MMG is a liar and is taking 200 grand a year or whatever the amount is. I won't be wasting time engaging with you in future if thats the attitude and agenda you have.

???
As per usual if you question Sinn fein then there must be an agenda against them. Please don't engage if that is your tactic.

The point was perhaps too subtle so I clarify: If accounts are certified they are not going to contain money from criminal elements. That is a statement of fact by the way before you make any accusation of 'agenda'.

washman3

The apologists are claiming Gay devoured both the host and MMG.
Have to laugh, the only thing poor Gay would "devour" is a large ice cream.
wonder does he still think we should host the olympics....:P:P

Wolfe Tone

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

???
As per usual if you question Sinn fein then there must be an agenda against them. Please don't engage if that is your tactic.

The point was perhaps too subtle so I clarify: If accounts are certified they are not going to contain money from criminal elements. That is a statement of fact by the way before you make any accusation of 'agenda'.

Lets go over things...

He asked McG to produce evidence of his income last year. Surely that is fair given that McG is making a big issue of his industrial average income. The fact that McG didnt respond by saying he would prove income makes me think that there are legs on that one?

You said the above, obviously having missed out on the bit where Martin said he would open up his accounts and offer proof. Your response to that was to basically say that that isn't good enough and you wouldn't believe it anyway. I don't think its a stretch to say that such a response clearly shows that you have a clear bias and agenda against MMG. No matter what he says or does nothing will be enough for you.

Furthermore you are now attempting to muddy the waters with references to "criminal elements" :rolleyes: when the original issue was about him taking the average wage.

If you have a shred of evidence that SF or MMG have received money from "criminal elements" I would love to see it(seen as the timeframe you highlighted and demanded "proof" of what his income was last year, lets start there), but you don't have any, you are just engaging in mudslinging.

Sunnyisland

Godge wrote: »

Great, at last we will get to see how all that bank robbery and intimidation money was spent over the years.


SF accounts will make for very interesting reading.

Sinn Féin accounts are subject to exactly the same audit as any other party.

thebman

Was car crash radio after listening to the podcast.

Dunphy started off by saying McGuinness was running as an independent but everyone knows where he stands with Sinn Fein which is a bit biased to start with.

Then they start talking and because Mitchell isn't allowed make unproved allegations at McGuinness and Dunphy tries to tell him to stop, he is being biased against Mitchell apparently.

Mitchell then decides he is going to talk over everyone and doesn't care what the presenter of the show says literally telling the person supposed to be chairing the debate that he isn't doing so and that the BCA would be interested to know what was going on, on the show.

Then they go to an ad break and things mostly start to settle down a bit. Things are put to McGuinness and he address the points mostly though it will be interesting to see will he actually release the information on his income. The allegation from Mitchell on the MP salary really made him look like he was just trying to shout his own propaganda and wasn't actually trying to be honest in his accusation of McGuinness doing same.

Ridiculous stuff TBH, the debate had barely started and Mitchell was shouting biased at Dunphy. It seemed like it was his intention before the interview knowing Dunphy's earlier announced support for McGuinness but he didn't even give him a chance to be objective before accusing him of bias. He should have given Dunphy some time to actually ask McGuinness some hard questions before he accused him of bias and not just went for it straight away if he didn't want this to come across as his plan all along IMO. That and FG set out on a general attack on McGuinness over this weekend as seen by comments in newspapers and on twitter.

BTW I'm not even voting for either of these candidates but this is crazy and in no way did Mitchell look good or better than McGuinness out of this IMO.

jonniebgood1

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Furthermore you are now attempting to muddy the waters with references to "criminal elements" :rolleyes: when the original issue was about him taking the average wage.

If you have a shred of evidence that SF or MMG have received money from "criminal elements" I would love to see it(seen as the timeframe you highlighted and demanded "proof" of what his income was last year, lets start there), but you don't have any, you are just engaging in mudslinging.

Have you never heard the 'link' between SF and criminality? Come on man- pull yourself together. I don't really think its a worthwhile discussion if you don't accept the link between the 2.
With regard to the wage thing, I dont really regard it as decisive but it will be interesting if focus comes on Sinn Fein income. Sure if it was the most important issue then we would be trying to get O'Murchu back in as he was going to do the job for free.

In general I don't appreciate being accused of having an agenda and bias just because I don't swallow the whiter than white view of McGuinness that some people do. I have previously voted for both parties of these candidates in general elections and prefer to make up my mind without an agenda but rather by using some general intelligence and that involves deciding if a candidate is truthful in this case. It seems to be a tactic of some people to suggest an agenda if queries are made against a candidate but it really is unhelpful. It is better to discuss the issues at hand rather than whether someone is biased or not. The only 'agenda' that 99% of people have is their own personal judgement.

woodoo

caseyann wrote: »

I know who i am voting to keep out of the Áras now.Having them dirty slime bags with hands in all areas of the Dáil and then Áras is a very bad idea.
They did dirty elections already and here we go again.

I agree. They are even dodgier than FF. I wouldn't trust them. Mitchell sounds agressive and certainly not the man i'd like to see as president. He'd be better looking for a job with his cousin

KeithAFC

MadsL wrote: »

Would or will. Big difference?

If Sinn Fién open their accounts will they also show where the US fundraising monies went in the 70 & 80's?

However maybe we can now force Mitchell to publish his expenses.

Sinn Fein is the perfect example of the boy who cried wolf. They have the nerve to have a go at corruption.

CoalBucket

I listened to it today on my way to work. I don't think i'd be voting for either of them.

IMO Mitchell didnt cover himself in glory and he sounded a bit hysterical at times.

I'm surprised FG have selected him as their candidate as he doesn't really come across as a likeable person.

John Bruton would have been a far better choice. Although I know he really didn't want to run.

MadsL

caseyann wrote: »

Link of proof?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/5122318/Sinn-Fein-MPs-claim-nearly-500000-in-expenses-on-London-flats.html

Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew, Pat Doherty and Conor Murphy each claimed £21,000 in the last financial year under the Additional Cost Allowances system, which is just short of the maximum.

Since second home expenses figures were first published in 2001-02, the five MPs claimed £437,405 in second home expenses in total.

foggy_lad

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/5122318/Sinn-Fein-MPs-claim-nearly-500000-in-expenses-on-London-flats.html

Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew, Pat Doherty and Conor Murphy each claimed £21,000 in the last financial year under the Additional Cost Allowances system, which is just short of the maximum.

Since second home expenses figures were first published in 2001-02, the five MPs claimed £437,405 in second home expenses in total.

So the British parliament is not good enough for sinn fein members to take their seats but they are milking the benefits! They are true hypocrites!

They are as bad as the many welfare cheats and wasters who vote for sinnMé fein

Sid_Justice

Gay Mitchell's working class hero story does not work for me. I'm not sure why he mentions it and who it's supposed to endear him to. McGuinness, as his past history would show, has a great ability to find common ground and compromise with political opponents. Mitchell on the other hand has the typical Irish TD approach of not yielding anything to the opposition. This reflects badly on him in my own opinion.

Mitchell seems preoccupied with dismantling the credibility of Mcguinness, to such an extent it appears it is very personal.

Despite all this, I did walk away with a deeper support for Mitchell. If he stops talking about his widowed mother and his opponents flaws i think he can be a real contender. Unfortunately, he doesn't really come across as a likeable fellow.

Gergiev

Just listened to this on playback. Remarkable stuff all round.

I had a theory that Fine Gael and Gay Mitchell would adopt these tactics in the last week or so if their campaign was failing to ignite. My rationale being that if FG weren't going to win they would try to take MMG down with them but it seems to have started already.

But I really don't think Mitchell did himself any favours here this morning. FG have been left with the worst candidate of the 3 available to them and have struggled to get traction at the hustings so far.

Although Mitchell has a fair bit of substance to him, his skills are far more suited to the adversarial nature of daily parliamentary politics. Having listened to him almost shrieking at MMG and Dunphy for an hour or so now, my guess is that undecided voters who listened in will have turned off him in droves as this kind of behaviour is not what most consider to be in any way Presidential in a potential Head of State.

The comments coming in from the likes of Hogan, Kehoe, etc, are just another manifestation of the reactionary flame which has been carried for decades in that party by the likes of Oliver J Flanagan, Paddy Cooney and Paddy Donegan, to name a few.

As regards Hogan's remarks about a "terrorist in the Aras", the 2nd and 3rd presidents of this country were former "terrorists" and the 4th was the son of one who was only born in the country because of his father's gun-running past. The first and second presidential election campaigns were fought out here by former IRA members from both sides of the Civil War divide and the office itself was created as a Republican position by the remnants of the anti-Treaty forces as a 'reverse takeover' of the organs of the Free State in the aftermath of the Abdication Crisis in Britain.

There may be a feeling in FG that having become the largest in the Dail, Senate, councils and MEPs that the presidency should just fall into their lap. Certainly if the likes of John Bruton, Alan Dukes or Maurice Manning had been available as candidates, it's very doubtful they would need to pursue the campaign with the same anti-MMG zeal that Mitchell has but would be putting forward a platform of their own rather than relying on being almost exclusively defined as the anti-someone candidate.

Personally, I won't be voting for either but don't need to be given a lesson in "right-think" from the governing party. The 'law and order' and conservative streak that runs through the 2 catch-all parties here seems to be a manifestation of some strange national insecurity that convines itself that it cannot trust the people to "do the right thing".

Most citizens made up their their own minds about MMG, Adams, Ferris etc years ago and won't be interested in being lectured as to how they should cast their vote.

I notice some criticism of Dunphy in the chair but when one candidate attempts to make the entire debate about the other person then "on the one hand and on the other hand" type of chairmanship simply won't do. If Mitchell decided to play the man rather than the ball then he can hardly complain when the referee constantly blows him up.

Interesting weeks ahead but if the debate this morning is anything to go by then it looks like we can expect a seriously neurotic response from FG if GM continues to lag...