Project Maths LCHL 2012

Moody_mona

Hi all,

I have a Leaving Cert Honours class for the first time and I'm a bit confused about how their papers will be laid out in June 2012.

I understand that they will be affected by strands 1 and 2, so Paper 1 will remain unchanged . . . . yes?!

Now Paper 2 - I have trawled through the Project Maths website, the past papers and the available sample papers, and I'm still unsure about what questions is what. Can anyone enlighten me or else link to some concrete information please? From what I can see
Q1 is probability
Q2 is statistics
Q3 is co-ordinate geometry of the line
Q4 is co-ordinate geometry of the circle
Q5 is trig
but after that I get a bit confused.

• Is there another trig question?
• Is the vector question definitely gone?
• Is the option question definitely gone?
• Will there be any choice on the paper at all?
• How many questions will there be in total?

I know I probably sound very unorganised but the content isn't bothering me, I'm just not confident about the layout of the exam and it's really getting to me.

I know I asked a load of questions, but if anyone can help at all that would be great! Thanks in advance.

MathsManiac

The sample paper isn't out yet, but I would say that the best indicator of the structure of the paper is to look at last year's paper 2 and the sample paper for it.

Remember, one of the things they are trying to do is to reduce the predictability of papers, so you may not see the same content in the same place from year to year.

Moody_mona

Thanks MathsManiac. How many questions will be on the paper then? I'll have a look at the sample paper when it's released but some of the previous ones have choice and I was under the impression there would be no choice.

MathsManiac

The sample papers and real papers for the pilot chools in 2010 had a choice between two different question 9s. This was because the version of strands 1 and 2 that they did had more stuff in it and took longer than expected. Because they had lost this extra amount of time, they were given the choice so that they could skip a chunk of strand 2 if they had covered all of strand 1.

As a result of their experience of how long it took, some material was removed from strand 1, and some more material was deferred until after the first bunch of kids from the JC come through. So, the situation that caused them to be given that choice was dealt with - it was a once-off solution to deal with the situation.

The only choice that there will be on paper 2 in 2012 is two alternative questions within the geometry section - you can EITHER do the synthetic geometry from the new syllabus, OR you can do a question that involves applying knowledge of the JC geometry course to some kind of problem. (See the footnote on page 22 of the syllabus: http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Project_Maths/Syllabuses_and_Assessment/LC_Maths_for_examination_in_2012.pdf)

This choice is only for three years, until the first bunch of JC students comes through. After that, the choice disappears, and the deferred strand 1 material kicks in as well.

I don't know for sure how many questions will be on the paper, but I would say that it will be the same as on the pilot schools' 2011 paper: at higher level, 6 X 25marks in section A, and 2 X 75 marks in Section B. (But maybe section B will be 3 X 50 - who knows.)

Moody_mona

Thanks a mil, really appreciate the reply!

mrboswell

I remember someone at an inservice asked how many questions would be on the LC papers and they guy said he didn't know that it could vary depending on the questions they set. So if there were questions that were difficult/long then less questions would be on the paper.

Its still a bit like the blind leading the blind!

whiteandlight

You will definitely not be able to break down by question like you did in the first post. I taught project maths for the last two years albeit not at higher level. Id say the structure of short and longer questions will be kept but they are avoiding labelling any question (with the exception perhaps of the geometry choice question) by topic. Like one of the long question was under the title statistics/probability for us-that's pretty broad!!
Best advice I can give is get students used to tests that are not as structured as p1 and ask a wide variety of questions varied by topic, style and length. The uk system has some similar problem solving stuff, as does Australia and there are resources on projectmaths.ie and the NCCA website. Best of luck

Mwalimu

The Exams Commission did a report in 2010 on the first sample Paper 2 for the pilot schools and it tells a lot about how the marking system will change. The report is on their website www.examinations.ie (use the Project Maths link on the What's New part of their homepage and scroll down to the report).

leavingcert.

Im confused :eek:
I thought that the 2011 project maths paper 2 would have no relevance to the 2012 paper, because the pilot schools were in the second year of it, and so the paper in 2012 would be like the paper in 2010? Because they are completely different! also I got exam papers from educate.ie and they have sample papers from the SEC in them, yet people are saying they havent been release>

Mwalimu

leavingcert. wrote: »

Im confused :eek:
I thought that the 2011 project maths paper 2 would have no relevance to the 2012 paper, because the pilot schools were in the second year of it, and so the paper in 2012 would be like the paper in 2010? Because they are completely different! also I got exam papers from educate.ie and they have sample papers from the SEC in them, yet people are saying they havent been release>

The big difference for the pilot schools in 2011 (the second new exam for them) was that paper 1 was also changed. In 2012 for all the rest, at higher level paper 2 will be along the same lines as in 2011 for the pilot schools. At ordinary level and foundation level the pilot schools will not have an area and volume question of the old type, but everybody else will. The Exams Commission will put the latest sample paper on their website so keep an eye out for it. Maybe educate.ie are using the previous sample papers from the SEC that were for the pilot schools?

majo

Does anyone know precisely what material in Strand1 (Leaving Cert Higher Level) has been deferred?

Mwalimu

Moody_mona wrote: »

Hi all,

I have a Leaving Cert Honours class for the first time and I'm a bit confused about how their papers will be laid out in June 2012.

I understand that they will be affected by strands 1 and 2, so Paper 1 will remain unchanged . . . . yes?! There is no change to Paper 1 in 2012

Now Paper 2 - I have trawled through the Project Maths website, the past papers and the available sample papers, and I'm still unsure about what questions is what. Can anyone enlighten me or else link to some concrete information please? From what I can see
Q1 is probability
Q2 is statistics
Q3 is co-ordinate geometry of the line
Q4 is co-ordinate geometry of the circle
Q5 is trig

but after that I get a bit confused.
Individual topics are not assigned to particular questions, so there is no 'certain' association. At higher level, Paper 2 is all prob and stats.
There is a choice in Q.6 (see the note in the syllabus for Section 2.1 (synthetic geometry). Otherwise, all questions must be attempted. The instructions on the inside cover of the Sample Paper sent to schools (see the examinations website at http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=sc&sc=ma) sets out the instructions for candidates.

• Is there another trig question?
• Is the vector question definitely gone? Yes.
• Is the option question definitely gone? Yes, there are no 'Options' questions from now on.
• Will there be any choice on the paper at all? Only in Q.6 (see above).
• How many questions will there be in total? There are 8 questions. Note that questions 7 and 8 are worth 75 marks each.

Section B of the paper is a problem-solving and applications section and uses anything to do with probability/statistics from Strands 1 and 2 of the syllabus.

I know I probably sound very unorganised but the content isn't bothering me, I'm just not confident about the layout of the exam and it's really getting to me.

I know I asked a load of questions, but if anyone can help at all that would be great! Thanks in advance.

Hang in there!!

Mwalimu

majo wrote: »

Does anyone know precisely what material in Strand1 (Leaving Cert Higher Level) has been deferred?

The material that has been deferred is not included in the syllabus. There is no need to worry about it until September 2013 (exam of June 2015).

majo

Thanks!

Mwalimu

Mwalimu wrote: »

The Exams Commission did a report in 2010 on the first sample Paper 2 for the pilot schools and it tells a lot about how the marking system will change. The report is on their website www.examinations.ie (use the Project Maths link on the What's New part of their homepage and scroll down to the report).

I see the Exams Commission now have the sample maths papers for both JC and LC in 2012 on their website www.examinations.ie (follow the Project Maths link on their homepage).

whiteandlight

Except that they didn't actually bother writing a new paper. Its almost exactly the same as the sample paper for the original year 1 pilot schools.

Moody_mona

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Except that they didn't actually bother writing a new paper. Its almost exactly the same as the sample paper for the original year 1 pilot schools.

I was disgusted with that. Is there a marking scheme to go with it? Or just the trialling report?

MathsManiac

Why would they write a new one, if they had a perfectly good one already done?

sullanefc

Hey guys, anyone know if there are marking schemes available for the sample papers? Was looking at the correlation question in 2011 and I don't agree with the answer given in the back of the exam paper?

MathsManiac

The are solutions and a marking scheme available for the trialled version of the sample paper that the pilot schools got for the 2010 exams, and which was recycled as the 2012 one for all other schools. There are none available for the 2011 sample papers for the pilot schools. There are solutions/schemes available for the real papers that the pilot schools did in 2010 and 2011.

What question on what paper are you wondering about?

MathsManiac

MathsManiac wrote: »

What question on what paper are you wondering about?

Never mind. I see you've posted in the Maths forum too.