Dun Laoghaire Rathdown CC Bin tax debt colloectors

Dtoffee

Anyone else get a letter from debt collectors regarding unpaid bin tax.

I never used the DLRCC bin service as we live near the dump and bring our waste there, we also recycle as much as we can .... no invoices were recieved over the years and then suddenly my name appeared on a bill totalling over €1500!

I have not replied and have no desire to pay for a service I never used, but where do I stand legally and how do I prove they never collected a bin?

Seth Brundle

Sounds like you need legal advice rather than political advice.
However, surely the onus is on them to prove that you owe them and not vice versa.

thebman

Did you sign up for it?

Do they operate a tax per lift system?

They probably keep a record of how many lifts your bin has had so if you ring them, you could explain.

Either that or they are running a disorganised mess of a bin service TBH.

slimjimmc

thebman wrote: »

Did you sign up for it?

Do they operate a tax per lift system?

They probably keep a record of how many lifts your bin has had so if you ring them, you could explain.

Either that or they are running a disorganised mess of a bin service TBH.

Since he never put the bin out to be lifted in the first place I guess the last sentence applies.

bmaxi

I'm curious as to how they would have your details if you didn't sign up for the service. I'd imagine "the householder" would not be sufficient to enforce a debt.

Dtoffee

This goes back to when they first introduced the bin tax, we never signed up or used the service.

The bills came to the occupier and not address to me personally, we ignored them as junk mail because we were not using the service.

Im sure there are more families out there getting the same solicitors debt collectors letters as although it had my name and address ..... it looked to be a standard print off with dear sir. It looks like DLRCC sold off its dubious list of bin tax defaulters and these guys are trying their luck.

Dtoffee

bmaxi wrote: »

I'm curious as to how they would have your details if you didn't sign up for the service. I'd imagine "the householder" would not be sufficient to enforce a debt.

Its the council, they probably just got it off the voter register after years of trying 'the occupier'

I have never replied to any of these letters by the way and never engaged them in any way.

coylemj

Dtoffee wrote: »

I never used the DLRCC bin service as we live near the dump and bring our waste there, we also recycle as much as we can

How much did you pay each time you visited the dump?

Dtoffee wrote: »

no invoices were recieved over the years and then suddenly my name appeared on a bill totalling over €1500!

Did a black bin suddenly appear outside your house one day and if so, did you just ignore it or did you ask the council to take it back?

Dtoffee wrote: »

I have not replied and have no desire to pay for a service I never used, but where do I stand legally and how do I prove they never collected a bin?

If they did collect the bin you would have received a statement with the dates and the weights itemised along with the bill.

Nobody forced the service on you, they sent out black bins and if you didn't want one you could have asked them to take it back and there would have been no charge.

If there is now a bill for €1,500 it's because they sent multiple statements to your address and they were ignored.

BrianD

Dtoffee wrote: »

Anyone else get a letter from debt collectors regarding unpaid bin tax.

I never used the DLRCC bin service as we live near the dump and bring our waste there, we also recycle as much as we can .... no invoices were recieved over the years and then suddenly my name appeared on a bill totalling over €1500!

I have not replied and have no desire to pay for a service I never used, but where do I stand legally and how do I prove they never collected a bin?

Do you pay for the "dump" and how do you recycle? Bring centre?

shar01

Don't ignore the letter. Contact DLRCC - preferably in writing and state your case. Don't "over-egg the pudding" - just state the facts.

Since the bin service was privatised, the Council set up a dedicated debt collection section.

Dtoffee

BrianD wrote: »

Do you pay for the "dump" and how do you recycle? Bring centre?

Yes we paid 20e per car every time we went to the dump, it got more expensive as they upped the prices so we eventually signed up with panda.
Recycling is free at the dump.

BrianD

Dtoffee wrote: »

Yes we paid 20e per car every time we went to the dump, it got more expensive as they upped the prices so we eventually signed up with panda.
Recycling is free at the dump.

So you are paying for a bin service. Just tell the council that you are.

Dtoffee

The bills they are talking about date back 8/9 years, the Council gave everyone new bins and all was fine. Then they announced the introduction of charges and you were asked to register your bin with them if you wanted it collected/emptied. We decided not to register and there was no requirement on us to sign an opt out sheet or anything.

We never used the bin and they know that.... its just an annual service charge that they imposed on joe public that they expected us to pay. There is NO lift charges, end of.

Dtoffee

Looks like I am not alone and well within my rights:


Richard Boyd Barrett (People-Before-Profit-Alliance) have challenged the DLRCC





PBPA’s view that the Council has a questionable legal claim over arrears dating between 2000 and 2004 was further reinforced this week when debt collectors acting on behalf of the Council withdrew legal proceedings against one householder, three days before the case was due to be heard, without explanation.
PBPA will also call on the Cathoirleach, at the outset of tonight’s meeting, for the meeting to be extended substantially to deal with the backlog in Council business that has built up over the extended summer break. This call follows the failure of the last meeting before the summer break to reach the vast majority of motions put down by Councillors on the agenda, before the meeting was ended early to facilitate a party for the new Cathoirleach.
PBPA will also seek a suspension of standing orders at some point in the meeting to allow for a discussion on the NAMA proposals, on which a Dail debate will commence this week.
Cllr Richard Boyd Barrett said:
“In two separate cases in a row to do with bin tax arrears, the Council and their legal representatives, have either failed to turn up or withdrawn the proceedings. This is a de facto admission by the Council that the legal claim on the money they are demanding from householders is questionable, if not completely unsustainable. This makes it all the more disgraceful that they are continuing to use bullying tactics and making all sorts of threats against householders, hoping to force money out of people, in the belief that most people will be too afraid to go to court.
On several occasions since I was elected in June, I have requested hat the County Manager respond to me on this matter and for all of that time I have been told that he is still awaiting advice from his legal department. This is just not acceptable. The simple fact of the matter is that the bin tax that was levied for the first five years in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown failed to comply with the “polluter pays” principle as required by law, because it was a flat charge that took no account of how much waste a householder put out for collection.
Despite the fact, that the Council knows this, or at the least knows there is a very serious question mark over the arrears they are demanding from tens of thousands of householders, they continue to try and scare people with debt collectors and threats.
Yet like the schools bully, who crumbles when his bluff is called, the Council back down, when residents represented by our legal team decide to battle it out in court.
We will be demanding tonight that the Council withdraw its threats and demands for arrears dating to the period 2000-2004 until the legal validity of these charges is finally decided.
We will also be calling for an immediate end to the scandalous new policy, initiated by the Council in the last few weeks, where they are refusing to sell bin tags to people who are actually willing to buy them, unless they first pay arrears, which they are claiming for precisely the years 2000 to 2004. It is nothing short of madness for the Council to actually refuse money that is being offered to them on the basis of trying to pursue a very spurious claim on arrears.
These bullying tactics are overwhelmingly being inflicted on people who can barely make ends meet as it is. It is shameful that the Council are trying to bully those who have lost their jobs, pensioners and others on low incomes, for money the Council knows it may not be entitled to. It has to stop!
At the outset of tonight’s meeting, we will also be calling on the Cathoirleach to extend the meeting substantially to ensure that the motions put down on the agenda by Councillors are reached.
It is frankly outrageous that almost none of the motions put down by Councillors at the last meeting before the two month summer break were dealt with and that that meeting was ended early to hold a party for the new Cathoirleach – a party paid for by the taxpayer at that.
With the economy of the country falling apart, the crazy plans for NAMA and huge cutbacks being imposed and coming down the line with Bord Snip, it is just not acceptable that the issues being raised by elected members on behalf of the citizens of the county are being put in a queue lasting months.
In the context of the current economic crisis and, particularly, the plans to start pushing the bailout of the banks through the Dail this week, we will also be calling of a suspension of standing orders to allow a discussion on NAMA. Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Co Council should add its voice to rising chorus of voices opposing this utterly disgraceful plan to bail out the bankers and developers who have wrecked the country. ”

1st dalkey dalkey

just received another of these letters. Has anyone else got one?
Since I have a different collector for years, I must assume this relates to the early noughties period. I thought I read somewhere that this had been contested in court and lost by the council, something about no formal contracts if I remember rightly.
Anyone know the position?

fxotoole

Dtoffee wrote: »

The bills they are talking about date back 8/9 years, the Council gave everyone new bins and all was fine. Then they announced the introduction of charges and you were asked to register your bin with them if you wanted it collected/emptied. We decided not to register and there was no requirement on us to sign an opt out sheet or anything.

We never used the bin and they know that.... its just an annual service charge that they imposed on joe public that they expected us to pay. There is NO lift charges, end of.

So the 1,500 amounts to 8/9 years worth of annual service charges, which you have been ignoring all this time. Probably plus interest and penalties at this stage.

You are being charged an annual fee for having the bins, even if you've never used their service. I get charged the same for my bins (from a private company) even if my bins are never collected at any point during the year.

It would have saved you a huge amount of hassle contacting the council 8/9 years ago and telling them to take the bins back.

cobhguy28

fxotoole wrote: »

You are being charged an annual fee for having the bins, even if you've never used their service. I get charged the same for my bins (from a private company) even if my bins are never collected at any point during the year.

Did you not read the part where they said " Then they announced the introduction of charges and you were asked to register your bin with them if you wanted it collected/emptied. We decided not to register "

Did you register with your private bin company or did a random company just leave a bin outside and start charging you.

1st dalkey dalkey

An earlier post on this issue states the following;


'We will be demanding tonight that the Council withdraw its threats and demands for arrears dating to the period 2000-2004 until the legal validity of these charges is finally decided.'

Does anyone know whether the legal validity of the charges was ever finally decided and what the current position is?

cobhguy28

The statue of limitations is something that would be relevant here. Citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/glossary_of_debt_terms.html