Is China the new leader of space exploration?

Corsendonk

They certainly seem to be backing up their ambitious plans with actually actions. Russia and the US seem to be slipping back and China seems the front runner of the emerging nations.

BBC News

A rocket carrying China's first space laboratory, Tiangong-1, has launched from the north of the country.
The Long March vehicle lifted clear from the Jiuquan spaceport in the Gobi Desert at 21:16 local time (13:16 GMT).
The rocket's ascent took the lab out over the Pacific, and on a path to an orbit some 350km above the Earth.
The 10.5m-long, cylindrical module will be unmanned for the time being, but the country's astronauts, or yuhangyuans, are expected to visit it next year.
Tiangong means "heavenly palace" in Chinese.
The immediate plan is for the module to operate in an autonomous mode, monitored from the ground. Then, in a few weeks' time, China will launch another unmanned spacecraft, Shenzhou 8, and try to link the pair together.
This rendezvous and docking capability is a prerequisite if larger structures are ever to be assembled in orbit.
"Rendezvous and docking is a sophisticated technology," said Yang Hong, Tiangong-1's chief designer. "It's also essential to building China's own space station," he told the state broadcaster China Central Television.
China has promised to build this station at the end of the decade.
Assuming the Shenzhou 8 venture goes well, two manned missions (Shenzhou 9 and 10) should follow in 2012. The yuhangyuans - two or three at a time - are expected to live aboard the conjoined vehicles for up to two weeks.

The Tiangong project is the second step in what Beijing authorities describe as a three-step strategy.
The first step was the development of the Shenzhou capsule system which has so far permitted six nationals to go into orbit since 2003; then the technologies needed for spacewalking and docking, now in progress; and finally construction of the space station.
At about 60 tonnes in mass, this future station would be considerably smaller than the 400-tonne international platform operated by the US, Russia, Europe, Canada and Japan, but its mere presence in the sky would nonetheless represent a remarkable achievement.
Concept drawings describe a core module weighing some 20-22 tonnes, flanked by two slightly smaller laboratory vessels.
Officials say it would be supplied by freighters in exactly the same way that robotic cargo ships keep the International Space Station (ISS) today stocked with fuel, food, water, air, and spare parts.
China is investing billions of dollars in its space programme. It has a strong space science effort under way, with two orbiting satellites having already been launched to the Moon. A third mission is expected to put a rover on the lunar surface. The Asian country is also deploying its own satellite-navigation system known as BeiDou, or Compass.
Bigger rockets are coming, too. The Long March 5 will be capable of putting more than 20 tonnes in a low-Earth orbit. This lifting muscle, again, will be necessary for the construction of a space station.
"There are loads of ideas floating around, and they're serious about implementing them," said UK space scientist John Zarnecki, who is a visiting professor at Beihang University, the new name for the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics.
"There's a sense of great optimism. It's not driven so much by science, but by the desire to develop new technologies. The money is there, although it's not limitless. And they're taking it step by step," he told BBC News.
Tiangong-1 has a two-year lifetime. It is likely to be followed by a second lab and possibly a third. China says that at the end of their missions, the modules will be driven into the atmosphere for a destructive descent into a remote part of the Pacific Ocean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zK8jHpLV9c

Rubecula

Well technologically speaking they are not the leaders yet I don't think, but they are not far off becoming the leaders.

Attitude though is a different matter, they are going for it big time and in that sense they are most certainly the leaders. They are setting an example that should have been set by the Americans/Russians decades ago. Even the UK once had a space program and then cutbacks stopped that. It looks like the Americans are following the same route now.

So in answer to the original question, Yes and No.:)

Corsendonk

Rubecula wrote: »

Well technologically speaking they are not the leaders yet I don't think, but they are not far off becoming the leaders.

Attitude though is a different matter, they are going for it big time and in that sense they are most certainly the leaders. They are setting an example that should have been set by the Americans/Russians decades ago. Even the UK once had a space program and then cutbacks stopped that. It looks like the Americans are following the same route now.

So in answer to the original question, Yes and No.:)

Well I think they will have the technology side sorted after a couple more years of state sponsored internet hacking!:pac:

Cork boy 55

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well I think they will have the technology side sorted after a couple more years of state sponsored internet hacking!:pac:

It's not just internet hacking they have a whole army of spies(ex-pats and students) engaged in industrial espionage, I wonder how many of uni's who are welcomnig chinese students are aware
that some of them are spies.

"THE inventor Sir James Dyson has warned that Chinese students are infiltrating British universities to steal technological and scientific secrets and even planting software bugs to relay the information to China.

Dyson, best known for inventing the bagless vacuum cleaner, said he had evidence that the bugs were left by postgraduates to ensure the thefts continued after they had returned home.

He said the extent to which foreign students dominated many science, technology and engineering research posts, often paid for by the British taxpayer, was "madness"."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/chinese-students-steal-secrets-inventor-james-dyson/story-e6frg6so-1226028900686

al28283

what happened to Russia? How does China putting a lab in space outdo everything Russia has done in space over the last 50 years?

Cork boy 55

Rubecula wrote: »

.........

Even the UK once had a space program and then cutbacks stopped that.

.........

Ay the defunct British Space program thats been outsoucred indirectly to India via AID

Indian has a space program and Britian gives it development AID and has no space program.

maninasia

China is just doing stuff that Russia and the US did 30-40 years ago! How does that make them leaders?

AugustusMinimus

maninasia wrote: »

China is just doing stuff that Russia and the US did 30-40 years ago! How does that make them leaders?

It doesn't. China is years behind USA and Russia in terms of both experience and design.

AlmightyCushion

China is nowhere near where America and Russia are. This space station of there's will be tiny compared to the ISS, even mir was bigger than it. Then you have other areas where USA excel such as hubble and the James Webb space telescope (if congress don't kill it's funding). One thing China does have is motivation. They seem to want to catch up and overtake America and Russia in space exploration (as well as in other areas). This may scare America and Russia into pushing more money into their space agencies to stop them falling behind. I doubt neither Russia or America want China to overtake them militarily and they may be worried that China could use space as another way to attack them.

Plug

Are they talks of China going to the moon by 2020?

-Trek-

Would love to know what could be achieved if they all merged forces, but I cant see that happening any time soon.

Plug

-Trek- wrote: »

Would love to know what could be achieved if they all merged forces, but I cant see that happening any time soon.

Mars for sure.

maninasia

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

China is nowhere near where America and Russia are. This space station of there's will be tiny compared to the ISS, even mir was bigger than it. Then you have other areas where USA excel such as hubble and the James Webb space telescope (if congress don't kill it's funding). One thing China does have is motivation. They seem to want to catch up and overtake America and Russia in space exploration (as well as in other areas). This may scare America and Russia into pushing more money into their space agencies to stop them falling behind. I doubt neither Russia or America want China to overtake them militarily and they may be worried that China could use space as another way to attack them.

It looks like China is mostly motivated in showing off 'big' achievements like a space station (which is just two crew modules joined together) and a man on the moon for it's domestic audience rather than actually going for for real technological leadership like sending robotic probes to Mars or or other planetary satellites.

AlmightyCushion

-Trek- wrote: »

Would love to know what could be achieved if they all merged forces, but I cant see that happening any time soon.

Impossible to say. Competition can be a great motivator. Would America have put up the funds for a moon mission if there was a joint US/Russian space agency?

Cork boy 55

WHy is china not involved in the ISS?

is the ESA an EU thing or could russia join?

Rubecula

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

WHy is china not involved in the ISS?

is the ESA an EU thing or could russia join?

China is not involved with the ISS because they want to go their own way I think, although I am not sure.

The European Space Agency is a conglomeration of space programs from around Europe. Russia I suspect would be welcome if they wanted to join because of their experience, but they are now working hand in glove with NASA.

caoty

Rubecula wrote: »

China is not involved with the ISS because they want to go their own way I think, although I am not sure.

The European Space Agency is a conglomeration of space programs from around Europe. Russia I suspect would be welcome if they wanted to join because of their experience, but they are now working hand in glove with NASA.

The US refuses to allow China to take part.

Tomk1

I think there's a few ways of looking at this, in terms of money and effect China is pushing ahead, but if Ireland from having no rocket to lanching a rocket, would also be pushing ahead a big step. Thing is China is using 60's rocket technology and is as a state acting almost like a cold-war superpower, whereas NASA is moving away from pointless acheivements and handing commercial projects to private commercial space companies, as China has no commerical side yet, its not in the same space-park.

I hope china isn't looking towards cold-warlike space domination, as that will again sap NASA resources & funding away from space-exploration for political/military show of power.

Maybe china should phone up Richard Branson for some technology ??

slade_x

Rubecula wrote: »

Well technologically speaking they are not the leaders yet I don't think, but they are not far off becoming the leaders.

China is a long long ways off leading in space exploration. Its vast amount of resources (money in comparison to other nations in a crippled economy) is what makes it a contendor. Given enough time and /or even help from US/Russia/Europe they could lead. Without cooperation with other nations they'll be lagging alot behind for sometime on experience. The pursuit is not for just one nation alone but for all, Then great things will happen.

caoty wrote: »

The US refuses to allow China to take part.

With good enough reason, China's interest in space may not be for the betterment of all nations, Theres a chance they want space supremacy for themselves, i guess only time will tell what their true motives are be it the betterment of all nations for all mankind or just the betterment of communist china

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

WHy is china not involved in the ISS?

is the ESA an EU thing or could russia join?

Yes the European Space Agency is a European member states Organisation but not neccessarily an institution. So not all EU member states have to be members of ESA. Canada is associated with the ESA but not a member.

The ESA (European Space Agency) currently cooperate with NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) and the RFSA (Russian Federation Space Agency) also co operate with NASA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency


You may find the following article interesting:

http://gizmodo.com/5845141/should-we-be-worried-about-chinas-first-space-station

Rubecula

My point (badly expressed and I am sorry) is that China are pushing for a manned flight to the moon apparently. (Maybe I am wrong here) But I do not think the West now has the capabilities to do that any longer. It would take a massive development program and I believe China is already on such a program, albeit in a less than modern space craft.

A bit like them sailing back to America in a sailing ship when we have a nuclear powered aircraft carrier that can not make the trip. If you follow my argument.

caoty

slade_x wrote: »

"The US refuses to allow China to take part."

With good enough reason, China's interest in space may not be for the betterment of all nations, Theres a chance they want space supremacy for themselves, i guess only time will tell what their true motives are be it the betterment of all nations for all mankind or just the betterment of communist china

It's a great feeling to state the obvious, isn't it? Which country's interest in space is only for the betterment of all nations? Name one please, just one and supporting evidence/proof.

As far as I know, space supremacy and keeping the supremacy is the official policy of the US, i.e. the space is ours and only ours (God bless America and only America if it has to be the case). The US also refuses to accept the proposal of non-militarisation of the space which is made by China and Russia. Surprise surprise.

"... The latest official statement on America's space policy, issued in 2006, affirms the country's freedom of action in space, the right of self-defence and the right to “deny, if necessary, its adversaries the use of space.” At the UN General Assembly, America has stood alone in voting against a resolution supporting negotiations on a treaty to prevent a space arms race, an idea pushed by China and Russia." (Source: The Economist)

It may take time to tell what the Chinese motives are, but it doesn't take much time to tell what the US motives are. I am sure that you believe that the US spends billions on space programmes and only wants the betterment of all nations for all mankind not just the betterment of capitalist US. No surprise here of course.

It is rather amusing to see that somebody still believes that there is some high moral horse to ride on in this field.

RichieC

maninasia wrote: »

It looks like China is mostly motivated in showing off 'big' achievements like a space station (which is just two crew modules joined together) and a man on the moon for it's domestic audience rather than actually going for for real technological leadership like sending robotic probes to Mars or or other planetary satellites.

Why do you think the yanks rushed to the moon like they did? propaganda.

I know I know, it's only bad when the baddies do it.

caoty

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

It's not just internet hacking they have a whole army of spies(ex-pats and students) engaged in industrial espionage, I wonder how many of uni's who are welcomnig chinese students are aware
that some of them are spies.

"THE inventor Sir James Dyson has warned that Chinese students are infiltrating British universities to steal technological and scientific secrets and even planting software bugs to relay the information to China.

Dyson, best known for inventing the bagless vacuum cleaner, said he had evidence that the bugs were left by postgraduates to ensure the thefts continued after they had returned home.

He said the extent to which foreign students dominated many science, technology and engineering research posts, often paid for by the British taxpayer, was "madness"."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/chinese-students-steal-secrets-inventor-james-dyson/story-e6frg6so-1226028900686

Would you be more imaginative rather than parroting the "yellow peril" cliche?

AugustusMinimus

Rubecula wrote: »

My point (badly expressed and I am sorry) is that China are pushing for a manned flight to the moon apparently. (Maybe I am wrong here) But I do not think the West now has the capabilities to do that any longer. It would take a massive development program and I believe China is already on such a program, albeit in a less than modern space craft.

A bit like them sailing back to America in a sailing ship when we have a nuclear powered aircraft carrier that can not make the trip. If you follow my argument.

Russia as it stands could send a Soyuz for a moon orbit and back. No lander though.

Corsendonk

Some co-operation between Russia and China.

2011-10-21 (China Military News cited from China Daily) -- China's first Mars probe will be launched between Nov 8 and Nov 20, after being delayed for two years, a top scientist said.
Yinghuo-1, a micro-satellite weighing 110 kilograms, will be sent into space with Russia's Phobos-Grunt mission at the Baikonur Cosmodrome launch site in Kazakhstan.
The probe is expected to enter a preset orbit around Mars between August and September next year, said Wu Ji, director of the National Space Science Center under the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
China News Service, citing the Russian Federal Space Agency, said the launch will be on Nov 9.
Experts said the project is expected to lead China further into deep space exploration, following two successful lunar probe projects since 2007.
Wu, who has designed scientific goals for the project with his colleagues, said Yinghuo-1 has been safely transported to the launch site, and a check showed everything is fine.
The mini-satellite's scientific goals include exploring Mars' space environment, and relaying back the first images of Mars taken by a Chinese satellite.
"Human beings now have only limited knowledge of Mars' upper atmosphere," he explained.
On board the probe are a magnetometer to explore Mars' magnetic field, a device to explore its upper atmosphere, and two cameras to take photos of the Red Planet for studying dust storms and their impact on the upper atmosphere, he said.
Russia's Phobos-Grunt mission will land on the Martian moon Phobos, collect geological samples and return them to Earth in three years.
The mission was set for October 2009, but later postponed to this year to enhance the reliability of the project. Russian space officials explained in 2009 that scientists needed more time to study Phobos' surface and design better facilities to collect soil samples from Phobos.
Earlier reports said Yinghuo-1 will travel 350 million kilometers in 11 months before separating from the Russian landing craft to enter the planet's orbit. It is expected to circle around the planet for one year.
Pang Zhihao, deputy editor-in-chief of the monthly Space International, said that it is difficult to maneuver the satellite into orbit.
"If the timing of the maneuvers are not right, or the probe's speed is too fast or too slow, the satellite could possibly fail to be captured by the planet and miss the orbit," he said, adding maneuvering a Mars probe that far is extremely demanding.
Only the European Space Agency has succeeded in sending a probe into orbit around Mars in one shot. Mars probe projects by the United States and Japan have all encountered failures, he said.
Without a deep space network to monitor and control interplanetary spacecraft, China relies on Russian facilities for its first Mars probe project, he said.
China is expected to complete a deep space network by 2016, including two domestic monitor and tracking stations and a third in South America, Qian Weiping, a top scientist in the field, said earlier.
"With the network ready and a powerful launch vehicle, China will conduct its next Mars exploration in the future on our own," said Wu Ji, adding the academy has started to research scientific goals and devices on board for the future Mars explorations.
Topics of interest to scientists across the world include whether there was once life on Mars and how its atmosphere took shape.

maninasia

RichieC wrote: »

Why do you think the yanks rushed to the moon like they did? propaganda.

I know I know, it's only bad when the baddies do it.

At the time reaching the moon was a 'first step for man'. It was a massive technological achievement. Now it would be a achievement but no breakthrough for mankind.
Compare it to finding life on Mars for instance?

I think the Chinese lack vision and are actually going to easier targets as they are too afraid of failure.

Capt'n Midnight

-Trek- wrote: »

Would love to know what could be achieved if they all merged forces, but I cant see that happening any time soon.

The ISS shows what happens when you get a committee. Nothing to show for the $100 Bn overbudget.

Imagine what the Russians could have done with NASA's budget and a little less political interference

Capt'n Midnight

Tomk1 wrote: »

Thing is China is using 60's rocket technology and is as a state acting almost like a cold-war superpower, whereas NASA is moving away from pointless acheivements and handing commercial projects to private commercial space companies, as China has no commerical side yet, its not in the same space-park.

The Russians are still using 1950's technology for manned flights. Because it works.

NASA are the experts at re-inventing the wheel when it comes to launch systems. It would have been interesting to see what sort of costs/performance they would have got out of a Saturn 5 if they re-engineered it by simply using modern material and techniques , while paying very strict attention to any problems that may be caused by using thinner (but stronger) materials. They could have shaved tonnes off the electronics, there's a whole range of lithium alloys and carbon fibre, there are the Russian engines that re use the turbo pump exhaust. And all of this stuff is off the shelf. It's just a matter of weighing the risk with the benefit based on N flights. If there are only going to be a few flights then you don't take as many risks.


China will milk this for all they are worth, spaceflight is maths + electronics + physics. There is no mystery , if you can accelerate westwards at a speed that would get you back to your starting point in 88 minutes you can achieve orbit. ( Ok you do need to circularise your orbit and not hitting anything is also important)


Still the US navy has had some success in rail gun reuse so maybe non-rocket based spaceflight is back on the horizon (for stuff, not people that is)

-Trek-

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The ISS shows what happens when you get a committee. Nothing to show for the $100 Bn overbudget.

Imagine what the Russians could have done with NASA's budget and a little less political interference

I wouldn't have thought a habitable orbiting laboratory as nothing, but the I question was posing was what could be achieved if nations pooled resources and put all political BS to one side for a true international effort, which I will admit that there would be a better chance of pigs sprouting wings and learning to fly. Surely a return to the moon to perhaps set up a base station and also advancing steps in getting to Mars would become realistic options?

I am now getting the feeling and having to agree from reading the above posts that maybe competition is the better driving force in the advancement of space race.

Capt'n Midnight

-Trek- wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought a habitable orbiting laboratory as nothing,

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/24/science/24MIR.html

Mr. Koptev pointed out that Russia had spent a total of $4.2 billion on the Mir project. "Given the state of the station," he said, "we were obliged to do this. One should not see it in purely emotional terms."

To put that in perspective the US spent far more than that on the 11 shuttle launches to Mir

So I'm betting the Russians could have build the ISS for at least $100,000,000,000.00 less then it's cost so far.

Even the US could have done it. The ISS could have been build with 5 Skylab type launches. Probably in 4 if they used a wet lab from stage 2.

But that's wishful thinking since the same is true of the shuttle tank - still galls me that no one figured out a way to use the tens of thousands of tonnes of presure resistant insulated cylinders containing of tonnes of Oxygen and Hydrogen and enough living space .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_external_tank

one wonders if the SLS ever flies if they will continue to offer the tanks to anyone who can use them in orbit...

Rhys Essien

China declare plans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8983929/China-declares-plans-for-mission-to-the-moon.html

Plug

Rhys Essien wrote: »

China declare plans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8983929/China-declares-plans-for-mission-to-the-moon.html

Thats good news. Hopefully then that will be a step onto Mars and beyond.

AugustusMinimus

The thing is, China is taking a very slow and steady approach. Will be years before any sort of a moon landing. They prob don't even have a launch vehicle on the drawing board.

Whatever it may eventually be, it will prob launch before SLS.

juan.kerr

Are they doing all this just to get their hands on a few Lunar Rovers?

Computer Sci

Rhys Essien wrote: »

China declare plans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8983929/China-declares-plans-for-mission-to-the-moon.html

This is good news, hopefully it will kick start a revival in manned space exploration. There seems to have been stagnation in this area since the 70s. I wonder will it start a new space race and encourage the Americans to start sending out manned missions again?

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881

X-37B spaceplane 'spying on China'

"Space-to-space surveillance is a whole new ball game made possible by a finessed group of sensors and sensor suites, which we think the X-37B may be using to maintain a close watch on China's nascent space station," said Spaceflight editor Dr David Baker.

The X-37B, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), looks like a mini space shuttle and can glide back down through the atmosphere to land on a runway, just like Nasa's re-usable manned spaceplane used to do before its retirement last July.

Built by Boeing, the Air Force's robotic craft is about 9m long and has a payload bay volume similar to that of a small van. But what goes in the payload bay, the USAF will not discuss.

The current mission was launched on an Atlas rocket and put into a low orbit, a little over 300km up, with an inclination of 42.79 degrees with respect to the equator - an unusual profile for a US military mission which would normally go into an orbit that circles the poles.

The X-37B's flight has since been followed from the ground by a dedicated group of optical tracking specialists in the US and Europe, intrigued by what the vehicle may be doing.

These individuals have watched how closely its orbit matches that of Tiangong.

The spacelab, which China expects to man with astronauts in 2012, was launched in September with an inclination of 42.78 degrees, and to a very similar altitude as the OTV.

AugustusMinimus

What the article doesn't say is that the X-37B was launched in March.

I seriously doubt the Chinese let out of the bag what the orbit of the space lab was going to be. If anything, surely the Chinese put it in a similar orbit to the X-37B to see what it is doing.

Sponge Bob

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What the article doesn't say is that the X-37B was launched in March..

March 2010

AugustusMinimus

5th March 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-226


You might be mixing it up with the X37Bs first launch in April 2010 which landed in December 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-212


The Chinese space station was launched back in September 2011. It then begs the question, why did the Chinese launch the station on practically the same orbit as the X37B considering they had 6 months advanced notice ?

gbee

Well,, if one thinks back in history, the Chinese invented the rocket, the explosive warhead and gun powder.

They saw what they had made and thought it too terrible so they entered a state of isolation. partly in an attempt to prevent the spread of new sciences as they were also afraid these terrible weapons would be used against them.

gbee

maninasia wrote: »

China is just doing stuff that Russia and the US did 30-40 years ago! How does that make them leaders?

It's comparable to the 20th century's beginnings and baby steps. Hitler develops a rocket to carry a warhead. He had many, many, many failures along the way ~ not to mention being bombed by his enemies.

After the war the studies were taken up by the US and USSR and we have a whole series of experiments and rocket development and military angles and space explorations and its gone on for over 70 years, one step at a time.

Now the Chinese are assembling a space station straight off the bat. ?!!! :eek:

the_syco

Rubecula wrote: »

But I do not think the West now has the capabilities to do that any longer.

Ever see the cars the Chinese make? If they crash, your f**ked. Cars in the USA have many safety aspects. Now, if you transfer this way of thought to the way they make their spacecraft, they'll be cheap and cheerful, and lots of corners will be cut.

caoty wrote: »

The US also refuses to accept the proposal of non-militarisation of the space which is made by China and Russia. Surprise surprise.

As the Americans systems have been hacked, information about their ships, stealth aircraft, etc, stolen by Chinese, it's naive to say that the Chinese wouldn't use the technology in space. IMO, it'd be harder for the USA to keep quite about missiles in space than China would.

gbee wrote: »

It's comparable to the 20th century's beginnings and baby steps. Hitler develops a rocket to carry a warhead. He had many, many, many failures along the way ~ not to mention being bombed by his enemies.

Hitler developed the rockets from German rocket enthusiasts.

gbee wrote: »

After the war the studies were taken up by the US and USSR and we have a whole series of experiments and rocket development and military angles and space explorations and its gone on for over 70 years, one step at a time.

The USA and the USSR developed the rockets using the intel from the German scientists.

gbee wrote: »

Now the Chinese are assembling a space station straight off the bat. ?!!! :eek:

Negative. The Chinese are using the technology that they stole from the Americans and others. Most of the newer tech is being used to make stealth planes it would seem, but it seems they're finding a use for the rocket tech.

=-=

I'd say that the Chinese are doing a good job so far. When they launch people in a spacecraft I'd say it'll be cheaper to make than the Americans as they won't be paying for so much research, and I doubt that they'll have too many safety devices that would cost money either.

The next decade will be interesting...

AugustusMinimus

Syco, a lot of the Chinese space technology has been directly bought off of the Russians.

The Chinese Space Capsule itself is a reengineered Soyuz capsule.


To say that the Chinese are the new leader technology wise is a complete joke. They seem to be the leader in vision and will, but that's about all.

caoty

You have got some good education from the media, that's all I can add. Have a nice day as the Americans always say.

the_syco wrote: »

Ever see the cars the Chinese make? If they crash, your f**ked. Cars in the USA have many safety aspects. Now, if you transfer this way of thought to the way they make their spacecraft, they'll be cheap and cheerful, and lots of corners will be cut.


As the Americans systems have been hacked, information about their ships, stealth aircraft, etc, stolen by Chinese, it's naive to say that the Chinese wouldn't use the technology in space. IMO, it'd be harder for the USA to keep quite about missiles in space than China would.


Hitler developed the rockets from German rocket enthusiasts.


The USA and the USSR developed the rockets using the intel from the German scientists.


Negative. The Chinese are using the technology that they stole from the Americans and others. Most of the newer tech is being used to make stealth planes it would seem, but it seems they're finding a use for the rocket tech.

=-=

I'd say that the Chinese are doing a good job so far. When they launch people in a spacecraft I'd say it'll be cheaper to make than the Americans as they won't be paying for so much research, and I doubt that they'll have too many safety devices that would cost money either.

The next decade will be interesting...

the_syco

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Syco, a lot of the Chinese space technology has been directly bought off of the Russians.

The Chinese Space Capsule itself is a reengineered Soyuz capsule.

Cool. You don't ask, you don't get; cheers for the info. Looking at their "aircraft carrier" that makes sense. I think the Russians know the "selling of arms" game is nearly finished as China is making their own stuff, and I think the other country is as well (forget teh name of the other country).

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

To say that the Chinese are the new leader technology wise is a complete joke. They seem to be the leader in vision and will, but that's about all.

Leader would be too strong a word.

AugustusMinimus

the_syco wrote: »

Leader would be too strong a word.

Very easy to have the strongest vision though.


From what I can tell, the Russians are in the strongest position though. The economy is constantly getting better and state finances are burgeoning through increased prices for oil and gas.

Roscosmos' budget keeps increasing as Putin views Russia's space aspirations as a national priority. He prob also views the fact, that militarily, having a presence in space is also a priority.

Considering the Russians have the technology and now they have an ever increasing budget, we could see big things from them again over the next 20 years. There's certainly plenty of scope for ESA to work with the Russians on such projects to drive the funding and technical expertise even further.

Capt'n Midnight

when the IIS mission ends, the US will probably deorbit their sections while the Russian will keep theirs in orbit as OPSEK



also
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/los.html
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara.html

AugustusMinimus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

when the IIS mission ends, the US will probably deorbit their sections while the Russian will keep theirs in orbit as OPSEK



also
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/los.html
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara.html

Here's the Super-Heavy variant of Angara that they talk about in the first link.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara100.html

There's even plans for a 150 tonne to LEO version.