Military operating Emergency Services

Delancey

I was very interested to learn recently that the Fire Brigades of Paris and Marseilles are actually military units and the Chief Fire officer for Paris is an army General. The rest of France organises its Fire Brigades along local Government lines just like Ireland but the 2 above cities are different.

As an aside , the current HR director of the Paris Fire Brigade is a Commandant Dominique Prieur who some here may better remember as one of the French Secret Service agents jailed in New Zealand in the 1980's for the bombing of the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior.

Any other examples of military operating Emergency Services ?

belacqua_

Most* gendarmeries around the world will be a constituent part of the military.

*One example I can think of that is not, is the GRC/RCMP. It's an interesting, but not altogether accurate, translation that has more to do with the historical origins of the NWMP/RCMP, which would have shared a number of similarities with a traditional gendarmerie.

Delancey

In the US I think the maintenance of things like flood defences is sometimes the responsibility of the US Army Engineers , not ES I know but still an unusual arrangement.

belacqua_

Yeah, it's an odd connection and the reasons are historical, which made me think of the other two branches of that make up the US 'Uniformed Services', the US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps (which could be loosely described as an emergency service, though it is only deployed in extreme scenarios), and the NOAA Commissioned Corps (they're like, from my reading, an executive ordnance survey/meteorological service, by no means an emergency service).

savagecabbages

The United States Coast Guard (USCG) is a branch of the United States Armed Forces and one of the seven U.S. uniformed services.

...Wikipedia

Again not strictly an emergency service but they do look after search and rescue along with their other more military roles.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The fire station in The Curragh camp (Co.Kildare) operate an ambulance and fire fighting service to civilians, I'm not sure how far from The Curragh they operate.

Would be army ordnance disposal come under the umbrella of an emergency service?. Either way, thats country wide.

Delancey

Fletcher Chubby Rattan wrote: »

The fire station in The Curragh camp (Co.Kildare) operate an ambulance and fire fighting service to civilians, I'm not sure how far from The Curragh they operate.

Would be army ordnance disposal come under the umbrella of an emergency service?. Either way, thats country wide.

Twice I've seen them attending RTA's ( not involving military vehicles ) near the Curragh.

mr.dunkey

Delancey wrote: »

Twice I've seen them attending RTA's ( not involving military vehicles ) near the Curragh.

The curragh fire service are Ambulance service are not stationed together or linked other than being in the curragh.

The ambulance is operated by the Army Medics on duty, they do take calls off the Ambulance service and back them up when needed.

Ive never seen the Curragh fire Engine out on a call outside the Curragh Grounds.

meathstevie

Delancey wrote: »

I was very interested to learn recently that the Fire Brigades of Paris and Marseilles are actually military units and the Chief Fire officer for Paris is an army General. The rest of France organises its Fire Brigades along local Government lines just like Ireland but the 2 above cities are different.

As an aside , the current HR director of the Paris Fire Brigade is a Commandant Dominique Prieur who some here may better remember as one of the French Secret Service agents jailed in New Zealand in the 1980's for the bombing of the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior.

Any other examples of military operating Emergency Services ?

The situation you're mentioning is a remnant of the Napoleonic era. One of the Police forces, the Gendarmerie National, is still officialy part of the military as well. The full name for the fire service would also be Pompiers-Sappeurs which would freely translate as Fireservice and Ordonance Disposal.

A lot of other European countries where the French empire once held sway would have had very similar policing structures sometimes retaining the military link and sometimes rehomed under the local equivalent of the home office. Of the top of my head; Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Luxemburg and of course France itself have retained those structures.

It often boils down to the following : a local municipality police force answering to the elected mayor and town council dealing with day to day community policing issues and volume crime investigations ( also serious crime in bigger cities ). Beside the local force there is a national force ( aka Gendarmerie, Guardia Civil, Rijkswacht now known as Federale Politie, Carabinieri, Koninklijke marechausee etc etc ) that deals more with organised crime, specialised investigation units like financial crime and drug trafficing, policing of large events, larger scale public order situations, special operations units ( ERU type units ), air support etc etc.. .

To make it all a bit more complicated there's often also police service in operation that is best described as judiciary police; they would be purely a detective setup who run investigations under instruction from prosecuting magistrates ( the prosecution service being part of the judiciary in a lot of continental countries with independant magistrates acting as investigation "watchdogs" beside the prosecution magistrates to safeguard the impartiality of investigations ).

arybvtcw0eolkf

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Ive never seen the Curragh fire Engine out on a call outside the Curragh Grounds.

A member of The Curragh emergency services was killed responding to a hoax call, so far as I can remember they were travelling to a location outside the camp.

Sgt.Jack Whelan R.I.P.

JACK WHELAN

Died 2nd February 1996. Aged 43.

Jack Whelan, an army firefighter was killed when the water tender carrying him overturned answering a hoax call at the Curragh camp.

Sergeant Whelan was trapped for more than three hours.

He was removed to hospital where he later died.

Sergeant Jack Whelan, 43, was a father of three,

Probably worth pointing out too that the naval service provide a fire fighting capability to ships at sea and inshore.

dfbemt

Fletcher Chubby Rattan wrote: »

A member of The Curragh emergency services was killed responding to a hoax call, so far as I can remember they were travelling to a location outside the camp.

Sgt.Jack Whelan R.I.P.

Sgt Whelan RIP indeed.

I'm a little confused by your quote though. It states that the hoax call was inside the Curragh Camp but you appear to have posted it to contradict the previous post re the Army not responding outside the Curragh??

Many years ago (up to mid 90's) when busy (Fri / Sat nights) we used to pass calls directly to the Army amb based at St Bricins in Dublin. Haven't seen it around in a log time now though.

Mycroft H

Wasn't there a case a few years ago where the army ambulance at the curragh was limited to 90kph and wasn't fast enough for emergency transfers.

mr.dunkey

Fletcher Chubby Rattan wrote: »

A member of The Curragh emergency services was killed responding to a hoax call, so far as I can remember they were travelling to a location outside the camp.

Sgt.Jack Whelan R.I.P.



Fletcher Chubby Rattan
im sure the Curragh Fire service do leave the Camp but i just have never seen them.
Im sure if naas and newbridge are out they might be call to "aid to civil power"

mr.dunkey

BX 19 wrote: »

Wasn't there a case a few years ago where the army ambulance at the curragh was limited to 90kph and wasn't fast enough for emergency transfers.

Correct, They were all restricted but now it has been removed.

belacqua_

Worth mentioning the operational deployment of the Green Goddesses in the UK during various fire service strikes (most recently 2002). These were manned by armed forces personnel, despite being originally Civil Defence (AFS) kit. I had no idea their primary function was to act as pumps in the event of a nuclear attack (thanks wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Goddess

arybvtcw0eolkf

dfbemt wrote: »

I'm a little confused by your quote though. It states that the hoax call was inside the Curragh Camp but you appear to have posted it to contradict the previous post re the Army not responding outside the Curragh??

I'm trying to work from memory as I can't find anything re. the incident online but so far as I can recall he was killed when his fire engine hit a tree on the road out of the camp.

Btw, just as a matter of interest to you guys as I'm sure hoax calls are of major concern to you - the person who made the hoax call which killed Jack Whelan was caught - he was the son of a serving soldier based in The Curragh.

I knew Jack from his service with us on the 63rd Irish Battalion UNIFIL, Lebanon IN 1988. He was a sgt with the engineer platoon.

Delancey

Going from memory I think the hoax call location was outside the camp.

dfbemt

Fletcher Chubby Rattan wrote: »

Probably worth pointing out too that the naval service provide a fire fighting capability to ships at sea and inshore.

I thought that DFB solely provided this under a formal agreement with ICRG / Dept of Marine. Certainly that is what we were told when we started training approx 12 yrs ago. Do the Naval Service provide a back up? (Please do not take this as a mine is bigger than yours comment )

We still undego various exercises, mostly re response and deployment for dealing with fires on ships in Irish Coastal Waters.

See link to 2007 story (1st Google hit !)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crew-safe-after-fire-on-board-cargo-ship-off-kerry-coast-305859.html

Whoever provides the service, DFB have come a long way since we dealt with our capsized boat in Dublin Bay

arybvtcw0eolkf

dfbemt wrote: »

I thought that DFB solely provided this under a formal agreement with ICRG / Dept of Marine. Certainly that is what we were told when we started training approx 12 yrs ago. Do the Naval Service provide a back up? (Please do not take this as a mine is bigger than yours comment )

We still undego various exercises, mostly re response and deployment for dealing with fires on ships in Irish Coastal Waters.

I'd never in a million years think that.

I'm no authority on any kind of firefighting and just guessing at what I read in regards to the Irish navy's fire fighting abilities.

I'm also guessing that if a merchant ship was on fire a hundred miles outside of Cobh the navy would probably the first to assist.

Speaking of water rescues and DFB, slightly off topic. I posted awhile back about a rescue I witnessed on the quays (Dublin) and how impressed I was with the bravery of the guys who went into the water to rescue someone.

Well since then I've witnessed more, and honestly it sends shivers down my spine when I think of the bravery of the men and women who go into dark, cold Liffey waters to rescue or recover a body.. If your involved in that very well done, supreme respect.

dfbemt

Fletcher Chubby Rattan wrote: »

Speaking of water rescues and DFB, slightly off topic. I posted awhile back about a rescue I witnessed on the quays (Dublin) and how impressed I was with the bravery of the guys who went into the water to rescue someone.

Well since then I've witnessed more, and honestly it sends shivers down my spine when I think of the bravery of the men and women who go into dark, cold Liffey waters to rescue or recover a body.. If your involved in that very well done, supreme respect.

Commenst appreciated.

Things have changed enormously for the better since approx 2003 re rescues from Liffey. Training has improved, PPE has been introduced and good, robust procedures implemented.

Up until then one would strip off to theie jocks to enter said waters, in all seasons !!

AGS regulalry enter waters around the country to rescue people in distress although I do notice it less and less in the vicinity of the Liffey. The joke was always that we would have to then rescue the initial casualty and the Guard but I would never agree with such a comment :rolleyes: Sure it was only slagging........

Respect to employees of AGS who undertake such actions and who also enter burning buildings to save lives.