SHIN SPLINTS AND FLAT FEET

KickstartHeart

hi,
im quite into running, but i can never run more than two or three days in a row without getting a lot of pain in my lower leg bones. i have very flat feet. i went to a physiotherapist and she gave me insoles. but to be honest they seam useless. they're red foamy things that seam to have just gone flat. i was talking to a guy before who said they are useless also, and that he used to have them and he got privately made ones instead.

i wish to pursue running more and more and would like to be able train heavily every day. extremely heavily.

does anyone here know of ways of preventing these pains?
and does anyone know if i was to get tailor made insoles would they help the situation much?

generally any advice on the situation is welcome.

thanks

RoyMcC

Hi, I'd guess this is nothing to do with your feet but more about doing too much too soon and not giving your legs a chance. How much running have you done up to now and how much are you trying to do each day.

And even the best and most experienced runners don't train 'extremely heavily' every day. Get hold of a programme appropriate to your level of expertise and follow it.

dr.quirky

poster above is spot on. the best insoles and best shoes in the world wont allow you to train heavy everyday. A visit to a running specialty store where they test your running gait would probably be a good idea also because even if your shoes are a "good" running shoe, they may not be suited to your particular pronation.
I don't have any particular problems re. flat feet or similar but when i started trying to build up some distance I ran into awful problems with pain especially in lower legs. I thought it was just regular pain but i was just doing far too much too soon. You need a good running base, 2-3 months running 2-3 times a week before you start building any serious distance without injury.
Set a goal, ie. run 10k without stopping to walk or run 5k in 40mins or whatever really its up to you, remember it's important to be realistic, and find a programme that will allow you to reach that goal. thats my two cents anyway, all the best with it see you at a starting bin in the future

RayCun

Search function seems to be broken at the moment, but when its back up there is a useful recent thread about shin splints you should look for.
In the meantime, just so you know the forum charter says we can't offer medical advice so there are limits to the kind of suggestion people can offer.

Peetrik

There is a lot of theory that padded insoles and cushioned running shoes are the cause of shin splints and other running related problems.

Some experts say that running barefoot forces you to run correctly, strengthens the muscles in the feet and is more efficient. Personally Id be more inclined to believe the people that are urging me to try something free than those that are trying to tell me I need to buy something expensive.

There are also minimilist running shoes if you run in urban areas.

Hope you find a solution either way

ChickenBalls

Just supporting the poster above - it's spot on plus free! I personally use Fivefingers for some protection and haven't looked back - I've been injured 2 years now with hip problems and had to change my running technique and found running barefoot helped me run more naturally and improve the muscles you dont use as much as you would in runners especially your feet. Your calf strength will improve big time - it has for me. If you do go down the barefoot route take this advise:

1) Never heel strike - you wont anyway as you naturally hit on the ball of your foot.

2) Lift the back of your legs more so you work your gluts and hamstrings more and not rely on your quads.

3) Advanced technique: High Knee Running - Lift your knee higher you'll get a stronger kick which will speed you up ten fold! This will take time to do as it drains your energies so only do this in intervals to start off.

4) Make sure to slightly lean forward and that your landing foot is perpendicular to your head - don't let your forward leg land in front of your head it's counter productive - running barefoot should help.

Here's a video I studied to get my technique right - record yourself and compare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbgSEG_Yx2k

Couple of disadvantages of running barefoot:

1) It takes much longer to recover than in runners so keep this point in mind.

2) You cant just run barefoot 100% of the time - you need to start once/twice a week for 1/2km first and make sure it's on grass or even sand! Hard surfaces will take a while.

My 2 cent hopefully it helps some what.

RoyMcC

keith123 wrote: »

Lift your knee higher you'll get a stronger kick which will speed you up ten fold!

Wow I'm gonna try that

RayCun

RoyMcC wrote: »

Wow I'm gonna try that

London here we come!

RayCun

Here's that thread on shin splints, well worth a read.

drquirky

wtf??? Two "Dr. Quirky's" on the ART forum? How did this happen??

ChickenBalls

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith123
Lift your knee higher you'll get a stronger kick which will speed you up ten fold!

RoyMcC wrote: »

Wow I'm gonna try that

Well... maybe not ten fold but you might realistically reach two fold for sure

RayCun

this really is a funtime emporium

KickstartHeart

Seriously happy with the levels of reply here! thanks very much lads, much appreciated and all advice taken on board!

Does anyone know a good non-concrete/tarmac place to run in Galway city, around the terryland area?

once again thanks very much lads.

mo_bhicycle

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Does anyone know a good non-concrete/tarmac place to run in Galway city, around the terryland area?

Run in the university / Dangan, it's not that far from Terryland

ecoli

keith123 wrote: »

1) Never heel strike - you wont anyway as you naturally hit on the ball of your foot.

I think this is a quite contentious point considering the majority of long distance runners tend to heel strike

http://www.endurancescience.com/blog/?p=172

ChickenBalls

ecoli wrote: »

I think this is a quite contentious point considering the majority of long distance runners tend to heel strike

http://www.endurancescience.com/blog/?p=172

Maybe I need to remove the word 'Never'
We all tend to heal strike at some stage especially when you get tired it's nearly unavoidable... If runners we're never invented we wouldn't have this problem of pronating and probably less injuries to boot... It's hard to go back to our roots of running barefoot as our skeletal structure has changed over the last generation which makes the transition longer.

Good read here on it http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20100127/barefoot-running-laced-with-health-benefits

RoyMcC

ecoli wrote: »

I think this is a quite contentious point considering the majority of long distance runners tend to heel strike

http://www.endurancescience.com/blog/?p=172

Maybe, but the aim is not to. I'd say that most of the elites 'kiss' the ground with the heel before putting the full weight onto the mid- or forefoot. From observation that is the case with most regular runners also. There's only a minority of 'thumpers' that whack the ground with the heel, and most often this will be down to shoe design.

I doubt that any running coach would preach landing on the heel...would they?

ecoli

RoyMcC wrote: »

Maybe, but the aim is not to. I'd say that most of the elites 'kiss' the ground with the heel before putting the full weight onto the mid- or forefoot. From observation that is the case with most regular runners also. There's only a minority of 'thumpers' that whack the ground with the heel, and most often this will be down to shoe design.

I doubt that any running coach would preach landing on the heel...would they?

As a coach my view is that trying to tamper with a persons stride like that can have adverse effects (an example being Dathan Ritzenheim and Salazars attempts to correct his stride in order to reduce injuries).

To me strengthening exercises and form work are more important than focusing on running "the correct way". Though people aim for mid foot landings it doesnt stop the likes of this guy running a world record only last week

http://i.imgur.com/eQHiI.jpg


Mainly playing devils advocate here especially because I am Anti Barefoot running but I am glad to see Keith123 recognise that while Barefoot running might be the most optimum way to run you need to take into account the lifestyle of modern day runners which has a major impact on attempting to transition to barefoot running

RoyMcC

ecoli wrote: »

To me strengthening exercises and form work are more important than focusing on running "the correct way".

Couldn't agree more with this - the footstrike will take care of itself if these aspects are worked on on a regular basis.

BobMac104

ecoli wrote: »

Mainly playing devils advocate here especially because I am Anti Barefoot running but I am glad to see Keith123 recognise that while Barefoot running might be the most optimum way to run you need to take into account the lifestyle of modern day runners which has a major impact on attempting to transition to barefoot running

I have only been running 7 months or so ,so my experience is very limited but i have been running 75% of the time in VFF's (25% in asic hyperspeeds) and i havent to date really experienced these issues that people say that due to the modern lifestyle prohibits this running type due to growing up wearing shoes and being active in "normal" runners all my life. Sure my calf's were on fire at the start for a bit but not any more and my feet still get tired after long runs (15m+) but i made the decission to start this way and i think /hope that it will be benifitial in the long run

I think good runners like yourself and others who have alot of experience on different surfaces and running in spikes racing flats have already had minimalist /"barefoot style" experience and your foot strike has naturally adapted already. Those of us who start straight out on the road would normally go for the bigger/recomended shoe and are probably influenced by the running shoes that they are wearing (big heel = lovely to land on your heel)

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

Though people aim for mid foot landings it doesnt stop the likes of this guy running a world record only last week

http://i.imgur.com/eQHiI.jpg

While watching some of the slow mo's form berlin last week that was one thing that stood out, his left foot was almost hitting the grounds at a 45 degree angle. But works well for him.

BobMac104

shels4ever wrote: »

While watching some of the slow mo's form berlin last week that was one thing that stood out, his left foot was almost hitting the grounds at a 45 degree angle. But works well for him.

He'll never get anywhere running like that:pac:.

similarly i think there is a video of gebreselassi somewhere showing how much he pronates.

ecoli

BobMac104 wrote: »

I think good runners like yourself and others who have alot of experience on different surfaces and running in spikes racing flats have already had minimalist /"barefoot style" experience and your foot strike has naturally adapted already. Those of us who start straight out on the road would normally go for the bigger/recomended shoe and are probably influenced by the running shoes that they are wearing (big heel = lovely to land on your heel)

While spikes may contribute a bit you would be suprised how little training is done in more minimalist shoes. Many runners spend about 80% of time in well supported shoes and reserve flats/spikes for races and some sessions. Personally myself I have a tendency to heel strike I know this but i do not actively try to change this because it is my natural movement and as such I am relaxed and efficient in my running. While this can be dissected to see how scientifically I can improve it doesnt always translate as to improved performance.

BobMac104

Thanks E.coli!

would you ever feel particularly sore after races so as when the support is taken away more stress is put on areas that usually have that support in training plus the intensity is ramped up?

ecoli

BobMac104 wrote: »

Thanks E.coli!

would you ever feel particularly sore after races so as when the support is taken away more stress is put on areas that usually have that support in training plus the intensity is ramped up?

Not too much to be honest like nothing more that post race heaviness just as a result of effort moreso than shoe selection.

However it should be noted that I stretch daily, drills twice a week and spend alot of time (including sessions) focusing on form and economy.

I would say my weight is also a factor as I am a light runner (5ft6, and just over 9 stone) which I would say is also something to take into account when talking of impact injuries which are rooted in the shoes vs barefoot debate

dr.quirky

drquirky wrote: »

wtf??? Two "Dr. Quirky's" on the ART forum? How did this happen??

dahat

Real good read on shin splints........

Shin Splints...