Nutrition & Injuries

PDCAT

Hi Guys

Running about 18 months so still learning quiet a bit.

Just wondering if anyone out there may be able to explain the link between nutrition and injuries.

For example:

i have been getting a lot of injuries during the year. I also find that i don't recover from my hard run's very well. Always notice that the next time i go out to run after a hard work out, my legs are really tired/weak/no strength.

I don't eat many vegetables/fruit so my diet has been rubbish to be honest. When i went to see the physio lately, he lays the constant injuries down to my diet. Lack of Veg/fruit, means possible vitaimin deficiency. More likely to get injured when pushing your body.

On his advice, i have had a good look at my diet and am changing it around. Also bought some Food supplements (Cell Rejuvenation & Omega oils). Taking about 10 tables of these per day at the moment. Will reduce in a couple of months.

Suppose i'm just wondering, is the link between nutrition and recovery (advoidance of injuries) that strong.

Sorry for length of post.

corny

First things first, stop taking tablets. If you lack the fruit and veg then eat some fruit and veg, pasta etc. Tablets are just expensive piss.:D

If you're tired after a hard run then give yourself time. The constant injuries could just as easily a symptom of you pushing too hard. Take it easy next time out.

From my experience unless you're eating McDonalds every day of the week your eating habits shouldn't lead to chronic fatigue.

ecoli

PDCAT wrote: »

Hi Guys

Running about 18 months so still learning quiet a bit.

Just wondering if anyone out there may be able to explain the link between nutrition and injuries.

For example:

i have been getting a lot of injuries during the year. I also find that i don't recover from my hard run's very well. Always notice that the next time i go out to run after a hard work out, my legs are really tired/weak/no strength.

I don't eat many vegetables/fruit so my diet has been rubbish to be honest. When i went to see the physio lately, he lays the constant injuries down to my diet. Lack of Veg/fruit, means possible vitaimin deficiency. More likely to get injured when pushing your body.

On his advice, i have had a good look at my diet and am changing it around. Also bought some Food supplements (Cell Rejuvenation & Omega oils). Taking about 10 tables of these per day at the moment. Will reduce in a couple of months.

Suppose i'm just wondering, is the link between nutrition and recovery (advoidance of injuries) that strong.

Sorry for length of post.

Emphatically yes

Training is a two part process of stress and adapt. The stress part is the actual training and the adapt is the rest period between sessions. Both are essential in terms of improvement however rest does not just mean "not training" simply put your body has to have the ingredients to build back up the body after a hard training session

Dont fuel yourself properly is like putting diesel in a petrol engine its just gonna f&%k $h!t up and you risk increased injury and illness which will hamper your performance

PDCAT

ecoli wrote: »

Emphatically yes

Training is a two part process of stress and adapt. The stress part is the actual training and the adapt is the rest period between sessions. Both are essential in terms of improvement however rest does not just mean "not training" simply put your body has to have the ingredients to build back up the body after a hard training session

Dont fuel yourself properly is like putting diesel in a petrol engine its just gonna f&%k $h!t up and you risk increased injury and illness which will hamper your performance

Thanks Ecoli.

Whilst i understood the first part of the process.... Actual Training, following a structured training plan, running at certain paces, giving yourself rest days, build up mileage slowly. I have been very good at this part of it.
Very poor at fueling the body with correct ingredients. Didn't properly understand the importance i suppose. i seem to take longer to recover from hard sessions than the average person running similiar mileage and when on a marathon plan whereby mileage is increasing - have found this more difficult.
Am currently working on getting more Veg/Fruit in the diet as i think, this is the area i am currently failing. Physio/Nutritionalist advised me to get some food supplements to use for a while to build myself up as it would help me immensely along with this change in diet.

ecoli

PDCAT wrote: »

Thanks Ecoli.

Whilst i understood the first part of the process.... Actual Training, following a structured training plan, running at certain paces, giving yourself rest days, build up mileage slowly. I have been very good at this part of it.
Very poor at fueling the body with correct ingredients. Didn't properly understand the importance i suppose. i seem to take longer to recover from hard sessions than the average person running similiar mileage and when on a marathon plan whereby mileage is increasing - have found this more difficult.
Am currently working on getting more Veg/Fruit in the diet as i think, this is the area i am currently failing. Physio/Nutritionalist advised me to get some food supplements to use for a while to build myself up as it would help me immensely along with this change in diet.

Suppliments are to compensate for lack of certain things in the diet. If you afre chronically fatigued the suppliments will help but ultimately you should aim to correct this with your diet

few tips for this:
White meats (chicken, turkey) 2-3 times a week
Read Meat atleast once a week
Fish 1-2 times a week atleast

Stir fry's can be great to get your veg intake up while still having a great tasting meal (marinate the chicken in sweet chilli chicken mix the veg in after cooking the chicken and its great)

Nuts are great snack during the day with a great source of protein

Peanut butter on brown toast is a great breakfast meal that keeps you full for longer than butter which can help with the hunger

Omega 3 (fish oils) can help boost the metabolism for wight loss

Dont restrict your diet but rather aim for quality control is the best approach

PDCAT

ecoli wrote: »

Suppliments are to compensate for lack of certain things in the diet. If you afre chronically fatigued the suppliments will help but ultimately you should aim to correct this with your diet

few tips for this:
White meats (chicken, turkey) 2-3 times a week
Read Meat atleast once a week
Fish 1-2 times a week atleast

Stir fry's can be great to get your veg intake up while still having a great tasting meal (marinate the chicken in sweet chilli chicken mix the veg in after cooking the chicken and its great)

Nuts are great snack during the day with a great source of protein

Peanut butter on brown toast is a great breakfast meal that keeps you full for longer than butter which can help with the hunger

Omega 3 (fish oils) can help boost the metabolism for wight loss

Dont restrict your diet but rather aim for quality control is the best approach

Thanks Ecoli

Great information above. Will print the above off for reference.

It's only my lower legs shins/calf muscles/ankles that feel weak after a hard session. Rest of me is full of beans raring to go. They just keep letting me know. Need to improve diet to remove that as a possible source.

ecoli

PDCAT wrote: »

Thanks Ecoli

Great information above. Will print the above off for reference.

It's only my lower legs shins/calf muscles/ankles that feel weak after a hard session. Rest of me is full of beans raring to go. They just keep letting me know. Need to improve diet to remove that as a possible source.

Any chance you could list you typical weeks training? Nutrition couuld be one cause but may also be a lack of flexibility etc. Also what is a "hard session" are we talking completing final rep and collapsing in a heap ready to puke?

PDCAT

ecoli wrote: »

Any chance you could list you typical weeks training? Nutrition couuld be one cause but may also be a lack of flexibility etc. Also what is a "hard session" are we talking completing final rep and collapsing in a heap ready to puke?

Yeah no bother.

Am following Hal Higdon Novice 1 Training Plan. Over the last couple of months it would be something like. Looking for sub 4 at DCM.
Recent times
Frank Duffy 1.19.57
Half Marathon 1.46.42

Monday

3 - 4 miles - 11.45 pace (Recovery Run). Ran this at with my wife at her pace so very slow.

Tuesday

5 - 8 miles - 9.50 pace (Easy run)

Thursday

3 - 5 miles - 8.00 pace (Tempo) On Treadmill or Grass.

Saturday

10 - 16 miles 10.00 pace (LSR) (length of run depends on plan).

Sunday

3 mile slow walk (x train).

Also do 3 x 15 minutes sessions (upper body weights) in gym. Nothing too hard. 30 Situp's each day.
Some Stretching (tend to go through phases of doing loads to doing none). Never feel too bad after any of the sessions even the hard one's. To me, they may not be even hard enough.

kennyb3

What do you weigh?

PDCAT

Not sure in KiloGrams kennyb3.

Last time i weighted (couple of weeks ago) about 13 stone 3 pounds.

kennyb3

PDCAT wrote: »

Not sure in KiloGrams kennyb3.

Last time i weighted (couple of weeks ago) about 13 stone 3 pounds.

And what height are you? Prob not too bad, hope you didnt mind the question, reason i asked is i was thinking maybe extra weight was puttng extra strain on your lower legs.

Look at your injuries as a whole and look for a pattern. (running too fast? too many races? too much too soon? etc etc)

rom

I was in the same boat as you. I started using kinetica recovery after long runs and hard sessions. about twice a week. 1 scoop for the 8 mile run and 2 for the LSR. Expensive but I feel its worth it.

PDCAT

kennyb3 wrote: »

And what height are you? Prob not too bad, hope you didnt mind the question, reason i asked is i was thinking maybe extra weight was puttng extra strain on your lower legs.

Look at your injuries as a whole and look for a pattern. (running too fast? too many races? too much too soon? etc etc)

No problem asking.
Height is approx 5'11.

Don't think i'm overweight really. Have tried three different pairs of runners. Pair i'm wearing now are Spirra, recommended by highly respected physio.
Possibly need to get a gait analyisis done - will go to Amphibian King, possibly after DCM.

PDCAT

rom wrote: »

I was in the same boat as you. I started using kinetica recovery after long runs and hard sessions. about twice a week. 1 scoop for the 8 mile run and 2 for the LSR. Expensive but I feel its worth it.

Where do you purchase Kinetica recovery. Is it a tablet or powder.

G-Money

ecoli wrote: »

Stir fry's can be great to get your veg intake up while still having a great tasting meal (marinate the chicken in sweet chilli chicken mix the veg in after cooking the chicken and its great)

Do you mean sweet chilli sauce or something else? Am interested in this.

macinalli

PDCAT wrote: »

Monday
3 - 4 miles - 11.45 pace (Recovery Run). Ran this at with my wife at her pace so very slow.

Tuesday
5 - 8 miles - 9.50 pace (Easy run)

Thursday
3 - 5 miles - 8.00 pace (Tempo) On Treadmill or Grass.

Saturday
10 - 16 miles 10.00 pace (LSR) (length of run depends on plan).

Sunday
3 mile slow walk (x train).

You seem to be putting in the time, but I would question if you could make better use of it. I run with a v experienced group who always say that if you're wiped out at the end of a session then you won't reap the benefit - the trick is incremental progress. From looking at your schedule, I presume it's the tempo that's doing the damage? In that case, it looks like to me like your lack of speed training is hurting you. Tempo will give you speed endurance, but you need something like fartlek or intervals to improve your raw speed. If your speed does improve, then I think you wouldn't find the tempo run so hard.

From looking at your schedule I think that there's some wasted effort. Monday recovery run: you've no session on Sunday that you need to recover from! Why not turn this into a speed session? The Tuesday would be a slower session (easy miles). If you want to keep your tempo on Thursday then you should add another recovery session on Friday, followed by your LSR on Saturday. That would be 5 runs per week, with each one having a purpose.

The other point is that if you are doing the sessions too hard, then your other runs will also suffer. You should always have something left in the tank at the end.

ocnoc

G-Money wrote: »

sweet chilli sauce

... goes well with everything

G-Money

ocnoc wrote: »

... goes well with everything

You don't need to tell me that

ecoli

G-Money wrote: »

Do you mean sweet chilli sauce or something else? Am interested in this.

Yep sorry Sweet chilli sauce (sometimes add extra chilli powder just to suit my tastes)

ecoli

macinalli wrote: »

You seem to be putting in the time, but I would question if you could make better use of it. I run with a v experienced group who always say that if you're wiped out at the end of a session then you won't reap the benefit - the trick is incremental progress. From looking at your schedule, I presume it's the tempo that's doing the damage? In that case, it looks like to me like your lack of speed training is hurting you. Tempo will give you speed endurance, but you need something like fartlek or intervals to improve your raw speed. If your speed does improve, then I think you wouldn't find the tempo run so hard.

From looking at your schedule I think that there's some wasted effort. Monday recovery run: you've no session on Sunday that you need to recover from! Why not turn this into a speed session? The Tuesday would be a slower session (easy miles). If you want to keep your tempo on Thursday then you should add another recovery session on Friday, followed by your LSR on Saturday. That would be 5 runs per week, with each one having a purpose.

The other point is that if you are doing the sessions too hard, then your other runs will also suffer. You should always have something left in the tank at the end.

Have to disagree with this. At the OPs level you are getting much more benefit from the type of training you are doing than you would from speedwork.

The tempo's are great for building Aerobic fitness rather than speed endurance and this is where relative novices to the sport yield the best benefits from training.

You training looks very sensible tbh and the paces look to be in line with your PBs

I would say focus on your hydration levels post training especially but look at this all during the day.

Also why not break up your tempos a bit. Rather than a 5 mile tempo how about 2 miles, 1 mile, 2 mile all at tempo pace but keep the recovery short. Doing as long as the recovery is short your heart rate wont drop than much so you will still get similar benefit.

From a training perspective however it looks spot on so I would look to the other aspects in an attempt to adress this as you should not feel that heavy legged after a tempo

macinalli

ecoli wrote: »

Have to disagree with this. At the OPs level you are getting much more benefit from the type of training you are doing than you would from speedwork.

Am curious about this. I agree that speedwork shouldn't be done until you've built up a running base, but the OP has been running for 18 months. I suppose the question then is what counts as an appropriate base to start doing some speedwork?

ecoli

macinalli wrote: »

Am curious about this. I agree that speedwork shouldn't be done until you've built up a running base, but the OP has been running for 18 months. I suppose the question then is what counts as an appropriate base to start doing some speedwork?

I guess this depends on what you define as "speedwork". I think anyone who is of the level of 3.30+ aiming for a marathon should base their training on developing their aerobic capacity as this is where they are going to get the most bang for their buck. This does not mean all easy miles though and there are plenty of sessions which can be great for this Tempos, Hills and progression runs are great for this.

A relatively new runner will get faster simply by getting stronger This can last a duration up to a few years in some athletes. From here once you have diminished returns from you aerobic capacity that boosting your Vo2 max and anaerobic systems yields a hell of alot more benefit.

At the moment my own training is solidly based in strength work and as such I have very few sessions which would be classed as "speed work" yet I am improving day in and day out and I am in the sport 14 years:eek: