Law in UL compared to UCC

buyer95

Im a 5th year student who is being put under pressure from the career guidance councillor to start looking at possible third level courses I may be interested in. After a substantial amount of scanning through courses I began to think I might be interested in law...

My question relates to the difference in the courses between ul and ucc, and also the reason for such a big difference in points for law at the two colleges. For example the law plus course in UL appeals to me because you get the opportunity to study law as well as another module. History is an option here, and as it is one of my favourite subjects I like the idea of it. And at 440 points it sounds attainable.

On the other hand law is also offered in ucc but with a considerable difference in points. The basic law degree is 480, which in todays economic climate, I would think would not be as good a degree as law with history? Which makes me consider clinical law(which I know little about). The reason for this that I have been told that clinical law offers a work placement as part of the course, which is obviously a plus... But what confuses me is that it is 520 points? How can there be such a stark difference in points(80)?

Also is it a bad area to get in to at the moment? Job prospects wise?

All feedback will be much appreciated.

Polar Ice

Hi,

I didn't study law, so I won't answer a bulk of your questions. I will be able to help with a few parts.

Points for any course are determined by supply (the number of places available for a course) and demand (the points of those who apply for the course). A few viable reasons for the relatively lower points for law plus is the class size could be bigger. I know that the law plus course is newer which could mean lower demand too.
The law & accounting course in UL has ranged around 455-475 points in the past few years. Its a big course with ~80 people I believe. (I honestly don't know much about law plus though)

You mentioned that the course in ucc has a work placement. For the most part, all courses in UL have a 6-8 months long work placement (cooperative education) as a part of the degree. All law plus students would do this.

Points for clinical law last year were also up 15 points on the previous year...

Your best bet for getting more info on the 2 programmes is to email the respective director of the course. For the UL law plus degree, details are here: http://www.ul.ie/courses/LawPlus.php

TheTownie

buyer95 wrote: »

Im a 5th year student who is being put under pressure from the career guidance councillor to start looking at possible third level courses I may be interested in. After a substantial amount of scanning through courses I began to think I might be interested in law...

My question relates to the difference in the courses between ul and ucc, and also the reason for such a big difference in points for law at the two colleges. For example the law plus course in UL appeals to me because you get the opportunity to study law as well as another module. History is an option here, and as it is one of my favourite subjects I like the idea of it. And at 440 points it sounds attainable.

On the other hand law is also offered in ucc but with a considerable difference in points. The basic law degree is 480, which in todays economic climate, I would think would not be as good a degree as law with history? Which makes me consider clinical law(which I know little about). The reason for this that I have been told that clinical law offers a work placement as part of the course, which is obviously a plus... But what confuses me is that it is 520 points? How can there be such a stark difference in points(80)?

Also is it a bad area to get in to at the moment? Job prospects wise?

All feedback will be much appreciated.

Can't tell you anything about law but the points issue is nothing more than supply and demand. Also minimum points required doesn't necessarily mean one course is harder than another so don't fall in to that trap either.

Go with the course that best suits you. The course you think you have the best aptitude for. Far too many people make the mistake of choosing a course that is not suited to them and only choose it because they can attain the points required.

The system is wrong and is in the process of being changed but unfortunately for you the Leaving Cert will come too soon to benefit from a new system.

freyners

buyer95 wrote: »

Im a 5th year student who is being put under pressure from the career guidance councillor to start looking at possible third level courses I may be interested in. After a substantial amount of scanning through courses I began to think I might be interested in law...

My question relates to the difference in the courses between ul and ucc, and also the reason for such a big difference in points for law at the two colleges. For example the law plus course in UL appeals to me because you get the opportunity to study law as well as another module. History is an option here, and as it is one of my favourite subjects I like the idea of it. And at 440 points it sounds attainable.

On the other hand law is also offered in ucc but with a considerable difference in points. The basic law degree is 480, which in todays economic climate, I would think would not be as good a degree as law with history? Which makes me consider clinical law(which I know little about). The reason for this that I have been told that clinical law offers a work placement as part of the course, which is obviously a plus... But what confuses me is that it is 520 points? How can there be such a stark difference in points(80)?

Also is it a bad area to get in to at the moment? Job prospects wise?

All feedback will be much appreciated.

its been said before me but ill say it again..don't get into the thinking that high points = better course....its all about supply and demand. Points aren't a reflection on the course and some universities (i won't name names but its fairly well known) have been known to cut the number of places on offer if they think the points are going to drop..keeping the points high.
Plus UL offers bonus points for HL maths which makes the courses a lot more attainable

I'm doing Law and Accounting and I'm in my 3rd year. I'm not sure exactly on how many are in our year but i think it is somewhere between 50/60. Law plus are a similar sized group i think..possibly slightly higher.

I go on an 8 month co-op placement (which is work placement) in January until the end of August. Law Plus started their placement in Late May/Early June and finish in December. Nearly all UL degrees do this placement at some point and its a huge asset to employers

I know nothing about any UCC degrees but if you have any questions on the modules I've taken I've no problem expanding

Law IS an employment sector that is suffering a difficult time at the moment. Graduate employment figures have fallen. However by the time you finish your degree it will be 6 years in the future. Who knows what things will be like then. You shouldn't tie your future to what has the best job numbers. Probability of getting a job is important but choosing a career that interests you and has the potential to stay interesting to you for what will be a huge part of your life is equally if not more vital.

Bridcork

@freyners would i be lost in this course without leaving cert business studies or could i get through it with just LC accounting ??

freyners

Bridcork wrote: »

@freyners would i be lost in this course without leaving cert business studies or could i get through it with just LC accounting ??

i didnt do business at all in LC either, just accounting and it works out fine. I found law fairly interesting which was important (although I soon discovered the books i read gave a far more interesting view of it than reality:p)


only thing i would point to is doing a course were you regularly write essays such as history, law exams are tough, trying to write 3 essays in 2 hours is even tougher and any experience writing essays stands to you

GraGra90

freyners wrote: »

i didnt do business at all in LC either, just accounting and it works out fine. I found law fairly interesting which was important (although I soon discovered the books i read gave a far more interesting view of it than reality:p)


only thing i would point to is doing a course were you regularly write essays such as history, law exams are tough, trying to write 3 essays in 2 hours is even tougher and any experience writing essays stands to you

I'm now in 4th year of Law and Accounting and I completely agree on that one! I never did business either, just accounting and the accounting does really stand to you, you have a really good foundation in LC for the stuff done during the course, you don't need business.

As for the law exams, they are tough going, and as far as I know they're the same everywhere, 3 essay questions in 2 hours - someone told me it's to prepare you for FE1s or something. You kinda pick it up though, I had no essay writing experience and I did pretty terrible in law in semester 1 of first year cause I just didn't have a clue what I was doing in general and got Cs but was up to As and Bs by second semester - it just takes practice really!!

buyer95

freyners wrote: »

its been said before me but ill say it again..don't get into the thinking that high points = better course....its all about supply and demand. Points aren't a reflection on the course and some universities (i won't name names but its fairly well known) have been known to cut the number of places on offer if they think the points are going to drop..keeping the points high.
Plus UL offers bonus points for HL maths which makes the courses a lot more attainable

I'm doing Law and Accounting and I'm in my 3rd year. I'm not sure exactly on how many are in our year but i think it is somewhere between 50/60. Law plus are a similar sized group i think..possibly slightly higher.

I go on an 8 month co-op placement (which is work placement) in January until the end of August. Law Plus started their placement in Late May/Early June and finish in December. Nearly all UL degrees do this placement at some point and its a huge asset to employers

I know nothing about any UCC degrees but if you have any questions on the modules I've taken I've no problem expanding

Law IS an employment sector that is suffering a difficult time at the moment. Graduate employment figures have fallen. However by the time you finish your degree it will be 6 years in the future. Who knows what things will be like then. You shouldn't tie your future to what has the best job numbers. Probability of getting a job is important but choosing a career that interests you and has the potential to stay interesting to you for what will be a huge part of your life is equally if not more vital.

Sorry to reopen and dead thread but I have a question relating to Law in UL. Previously I said here that I was interested in Law Plus, I have thought about this and as I am also doing accounting for the leaving cert I have begun to wonder if I would be better suited to the joint law and accounting course... Is it Law with a bit of accounting or accounting with a bit of law, or equal amounts of both?

Also I would like to ask you, as someone who has done the law and accounting degree if you are satisfies with that choice or would you on reflection preferred to have done law plus?

Flincher

Equal amounts of both. It gives you a good grounding in both subjects, and a lot from my class are doing traineeships with accountancy firms, tax firms, or studying for the solicitor exams.

If you are interested in doing accountancy or tax, or a career along those lines, then Law & Accounting might be a good choice. If not, then look at the options in Law Plus and see if something jumps out. There is a lot of accountancy/business/tax/finance stuff on the course, so I wouldn't recommend it for somebody who doesn't have an interest in those areas.

I can't really answer your last question as Law Plus wasn't an option when I started (I think the course started in 2008 so the first group of students would be in their final year now), but I am happy with my degree, and it does give a wide range of career options.

freyners

buyer95 wrote: »

Sorry to reopen and dead thread but I have a question relating to Law in UL. Previously I said here that I was interested in Law Plus, I have thought about this and as I am also doing accounting for the leaving cert I have begun to wonder if I would be better suited to the joint law and accounting course... Is it Law with a bit of accounting or accounting with a bit of law, or equal amounts of both?

Also I would like to ask you, as someone who has done the law and accounting degree if you are satisfies with that choice or would you on reflection preferred to have done law plus?

flincher has done a good job answering this but ill add in bits

accounting is a bonus for doing L&A, it gives you a head start in your first year exams and stuff like ratio analysis carries on throughout the course. But as to whether it suits you that question is one you will have to answer yourself. Do you enjoy accounting or find it interesting? if so then yes its a degree suited to you.

As flincher said its equal amounts of both accounting and law, it gives you a fantastic grounding in both subjects for the first 5 semesters, then your on co-op and you can pick and choose what you want to study in fourth year (although you will have to do an element of both still to gain max exemptions). Big plus for the course is (I'm almost 100% sure on this but not totally) you get the same exemptions as any other comparable accounting/law degree

As to whether Im satisfied with my choice, I really am...now. In first year/beginning of second year I had my doubts but this was due to me being naive as to what studying law would entail

Nowdays I absolutely love it and would recommend it to anyone who was in my position at leaving cert. However you seem to be different to me as in my primary interest was in accounting where as yours seems to be law.

Hope this helps, any questions just ask

cocaholic

Regarding Law Plus in UL,You have the option of doing from one to two choice humanities - history, psychology and so on. Afaik, in Law Plus, you get choices of what law you want to study and in law and accounting in UL its set so you get no choice. Law Plus also have no Final Year Project, anyone who has done one knows its a pain. A lot of people I know who have done law have no intention of going on to become a barrister or solicitor and have gone into other areas including development and banking etc. The benefits would be co-op where you can experience working in a law firm or you can go abroad, someone I know did there's in New York. You can also do study abroad. Law Plus in UL is 4 years, Law in UCC as afaik is only 3 years.

buyer95

Again, sorry for " bumping " a dead thread, but I have been thinking a lot about my CAO choices over the last few weeks and I am really beginning to like the idea of Law Plus in U.L.

It offers me the basic law degree( where my interest lies ) and also the option of another module(If I was to do it, either History or Politics.) But my question relates to, how I would go about becoming a solicitor or barrister after completing the basic degree. I was told recently there is some place called Kings Inn in Dublin, where you must pass an exam, and attend for a year? I have very little knowledge or info on this, and anyone with any experience of this, any help would be appreciated.

Also, does this " Kings Inn " place take a certain amount of students from each University, and do they have prejudice towards the college's which are perceived as being superior, ie Trinity, or whatever?

freyners

afaik you go to blackhall to become a solicitor and kings inn to become a barrister.

A person who is planning on becoming either is probably best placed to answer this but the below should be helpful

Becoming a Barrister

Becoming a solicitor

Kate_B7

Ive been thinking of putting down Law Plus as my first choice aswell.. Has anyone any info on how difficult it is or anything? anything at all would be really appreciated!!:)

freyners

Kate_B7 wrote: »

Ive been thinking of putting down Law Plus as my first choice aswell.. Has anyone any info on how difficult it is or anything? anything at all would be really appreciated!!:)

Not so sure about the Law Plus course, AFAIK you do 3 law modules a year plus 2 electives.

First year subjects are usually criminal and contract law plus one more law subject. Crim and contract are nice subjects to start with imo. Not the most technical of subjects and if I were to start off with two subject amongst the ones I've done i would have picked them.

Personally I never found law to be too difficult, its just requires alot of work. I only do 2 law modules each semester yet they will take up 60% of my study time. You also need to be good at writing essays. a typical exam will see you write three in 2 hours plus how you structure them is very important

Kate_B7

Thanks for your help!!

gwtf

Hi there,

I'm currently studying Law Plus in UL (its a four year degree)and I can honestly say I love my course. Between 60% and 80% of your course is law and the rest is from your electives. 80% of my course consists of law modules as I have opted to take more law modules, so there's great flexibility surrounding your course options. As for "how difficult the course is" all college courses require work but must college degrees like law/business/arts only have 12-14 hours of classes a week. So don't worry whatever you decide to do you will be able to handle it.

One of the perks of studying in UL is that you get to go on work placement and/or study abroad. I was in a top law firm in Dublin for my placement which was not only an amazing experience, but also a huge competitive advantage for when you graduate as most of your peers will not have done any form of law related work and those that have will only have a few weeks experience of doing so as opposed to 7-8 months, which is the amount of time given to UL students for placement. You can even split your placement or work abroad. You don't have to work in the legal sector. A friend of mine went working in the EU and plans to do so again after graduation.

Study abroad can but done for a year instead of placement or you can do both but this reduces your study abroad time to half a year. You can study in a huge number of places such as Italy/the Netherlands/the US Canada just to name a few or if you take a language you can study through that language in France, Spain, Germany etc.

In terms of the law school itself we have a superb standard of lecturers, many of who are leading experts in their area so you will have lecturers who are among the best in the country. If you haven't visited UL I would recommend it. I know the open day isn't well run, but it is an amazing campus, so maybe try and get a tour organised another time yourself.

If you like essay writing, you will like law. Writing essays at third level are very different to LC because they involve a lot of research (which is part of any degree you will do) but it makes it a lot more interesting.

Just as a general piece of advice, I only did my leaving cert a few years ago, and you're gonna hear all this crap about "there are no jobs". The reality is if you want something enough and are willing to work for it you will get there.
If you want to be a lawyer, study law, get a work placement, build connections, get top grades and then the world is your oyster!

Come September when you're in college, you will realise that the LC is the most strenuous set of exams you will sit. College is much more modern in its approach and it isn't about learning facts for exams as many of your courses will be assessed by continuous assessment.

Either way I hope you're happy with the course you choose. If you prefer UCC go there, but if you like UL, I can assure you from experience, you will have the best years of your life here and the best is yet to come.:)

Best of luck with the LC!

Kate_B7

gwtf wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm currently studying Law Plus in UL (its a four year degree)and I can honestly say I love my course. Between 60% and 80% of your course is law and the rest is from your electives. 80% of my course consists of law modules as I have opted to take more law modules, so there's great flexibility surrounding your course options. As for "how difficult the course is" all college courses require work but must college degrees like law/business/arts only have 12-14 hours of classes a week. So don't worry whatever you decide to do you will be able to handle it.

One of the perks of studying in UL is that you get to go on work placement and/or study abroad. I was in a top law firm in Dublin for my placement which was not only an amazing experience, but also a huge competitive advantage for when you graduate as most of your peers will not have done any form of law related work and those that have will only have a few weeks experience of doing so as opposed to 7-8 months, which is the amount of time given to UL students for placement. You can even split your placement or work abroad. You don't have to work in the legal sector. A friend of mine went working in the EU and plans to do so again after graduation.

Study abroad can but done for a year instead of placement or you can do both but this reduces your study abroad time to half a year. You can study in a huge number of places such as Italy/the Netherlands/the US Canada just to name a few or if you take a language you can study through that language in France, Spain, Germany etc.

In terms of the law school itself we have a superb standard of lecturers, many of who are leading experts in their area so you will have lecturers who are among the best in the country. If you haven't visited UL I would recommend it. I know the open day isn't well run, but it is an amazing campus, so maybe try and get a tour organised another time yourself.

If you like essay writing, you will like law. Writing essays at third level are very different to LC because they involve a lot of research (which is part of any degree you will do) but it makes it a lot more interesting.

Just as a general piece of advice, I only did my leaving cert a few years ago, and you're gonna hear all this crap about "there are no jobs". The reality is if you want something enough and are willing to work for it you will get there.
If you want to be a lawyer, study law, get a work placement, build connections, get top grades and then the world is your oyster!

Come September when you're in college, you will realise that the LC is the most strenuous set of exams you will sit. College is much more modern in its approach and it isn't about learning facts for exams as many of your courses will be assessed by continuous assessment.

Either way I hope you're happy with the course you choose. If you prefer UCC go there, but if you like UL, I can assure you from experience, you will have the best years of your life here and the best is yet to come.:)

Best of luck with the LC!

This might be a stupid Q now but Its hard to ignore everyone saying there are no jobs for soliciters etc so its maybe not the best course to pick, but would it be stupid to do law plus but not looking to be a solicter or barrister? Id love to do it because it seems so interesting but not sure if id want to be a lawyer etc! Not sure what other careers would be open then..

gwtf

There are many more careers other than being a solicitor/barrister. I know it's hard to ignore people saying 'there are no jobs'. If you choose to go either route, it will be a long tough struggle to get to where you want to be. If you want something enough, you will work hard enough. If you want either of those career paths you will find a way. But there are a HUGE number of career paths you can take with a law degree. For example my friend has no intention of becoming a lawyer and found the course really interesting, completed a work placement in Brussels and wants to work for the EU upon graduating. The placement was with the EU and it opened up a whole new path she never knew she could take!

You can qualify as almost anything you want but just to be 100% clear, a degree outside of the health sciences and teaching (with possibly very few exceptions) doesn't qualify you for anything! Many people with law degrees however become chartered company secretaries, liquidators, accountants, lecturers, civil and public servants, teachers, business owners, work in fields like advertising, marketing etc. Truth be told it's pretty much the same for any arts/humanities graduate.

One of the big misconceptions at second level is that you degree will somehow determine your career path. I don't study accountancy but I know the path I could take with my law degree when I graduate if I wanted to. If you don't know your path, Law (Plus) is great for (1) the diversity of subjects you can study and (2) the work placement that you can take as it could be in quite literally anything! Don't feel as a LC student that you need to decide what you want to be just yet. Believe me, there is plenty of time for that. If you would prefer to study 'English and History' or something, go for it! When people say things like 'what kind of career will you get with that degree?' just ignore them. It's not like in our parents day when a degree meant you could pretty much walk into any line of work with a high standard of education. Today everyone has a degree so you will most likely need some form of postgraduate education anyway. So study what you want, if you like what you're doing, you'll work harder at it (probably) and finish with a good degree (like a 1st or 2:1). That's what opens doors for you when you graduate.

I hope wherever you choose to study and whatever you choose that you enjoy it. If you want to do law, work hard and when you graduate your grades will speak for themselves and will help take you where you want to go, wherever that maybe. There are always jobs for hard workers - in whatever field of work!

Kate_B7

Thanks so much for the help!!:)