Cliff Burton. 25 years on.

Kess73

Mentioned it in the Metallica superthread, but then thought it may be worth a thread of it's own.

Today is the 25th anniversary of Cliff Burton's death. Can still remember hearing the news and being stunned by it as I had just seen him play with the band in the UK the week before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O9zMnwD65Q

slavetothegrind

Wow where did those years go???

yeah was shocked myself, had seen him in dublin shortly before the tragic event. One can only wonder at what direction the band would have taken had he been around.
There was a lot of speculation that james and cliff were planning to oust lars for dave lombardo who as a family man needed to earn a decent regular wage at the time, which he wasn't doing with slayer then.

Now there would have been some kind of monster!

25, 50, 100 years on he will always be remembered for his all too short contribution to metal.

Lawrence1895

I remember that day, a mate, who was on holidays in Belgium rang me. He had 'For whom the bell tolls' running in the background.

Cliff, you'll never be forgotten

Riddle101

25 years on and still sadly missed. RIP Cliff Burton. The best bass guitarist Metallica ever had..

lord lucan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qYqi-EMErU

Can never listen to this without thinking of Cliff. His shadow still looms large and will always serve as an inspiration to many despite his short tenure on earth.

viadah

I never see the point in being mawkish about the fact that Cliff Burton (or any musician for that matter) died, the fact of the matter is the music is as close as most of us ever got to the man himself, and his work is as good now as it ever was. Better to acknowledge the talent he had, and it is a shame his life and career were cut short, but **** it, turn up Orion or Anaesthesia or any of his riffs and remember what the man's life meant, rather than his death.

Motley Crue

I'm not even near old enough to have been present at that incredible performance that Metallica gave in Dublin on (by all accounts) a horrible September evening in 1986, but trust me when I say that when I invent time travel it will be one of the first destinations on my list.

Joking aside, Cliff Burton would have certainly taken Metallica places they never would have gone without him, and in that sense Metallica have gone places that Cliff probably wouldn't have agreed with - and I'm sure some he would have. Cliff was a talented ****er, and someone who knew his music through and through and didn't allow things like genre's to stop him from experimenting (in the last ever interview he gave he said he was a fan of REM, at a time when that particular band would have been fairly unknown)

And, even in death, he gave us some of the greatest material he could - Metallica produced And Justice For All and the Black Album around some of the anger and frustration they felt at his passing and Faith No More guitarist (ex-guitarist and good friend) Jim Martin wrote a lot of his pieces on FNM's "mainstream breakthrough" Angel Dust with Cliff in mind

Riddle101

Just thinking about the whole Jason Newsted thing. He left Metallica because he wanted to try some of his own things. Maybe form another band and such, but still be in Metallica. Which led the to James telling him he couldn't do it and in the end it led to Jason's departure.

I just wonder if James would have allowed Cliff to that. I mean both were best friends and the band respected Cliff a hell of a lot, I mean he was a big influence on Metallica and I think I remember reading in their biography that the band would generally allow Cliff to do whatever he wanted. So it makes me wonder, would James have had a difference stance with Cliff or would he have said the same thing.

It just makes me wonder because Cliff strikes me as the type of person who would do something like that. Start another band and try new things, with that one, while still playing with Metallica and sticking to Thrash Metal.

Lemmy Scott

Cliff will never be forgotten and its no surprise that metallicas decline began with the death of Cliff-can anyone here say that they have had an album better than the first 3-no i dont think so.
On a side note i always felt sorry for the way Jason got treated he was a good bassist and rightly questioined the direction metallica were going and sadly paid the price

nelly17

According to the Metallica Facebook and their website it looks like they forgot him, no mention of the day. Shocking really

Riddle101

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

Cliff will never be forgotten and its no surprise that metallicas decline began with the death of Cliff-can anyone here say that they have had an album better than the first 3-no i dont think so.
On a side note i always felt sorry for the way Jason got treated he was a good bassist and rightly questioined the direction metallica were going and sadly paid the price

Jason always had a good connection with the fans I think. I believe being a fan himself before joining, helped him understand it the way the fans do and thus was always more open minded. But at least Jason was able to take his treatment in stride, and shrug it off. If it were me, I think i'd be very bitter and resentful of their treatment.

jpm4

I think they would have gone in pretty much the same direction regardless of whether Cliff was still alive or not.

Rented Mule

He who lives by Heavy Metal .......dies by heavy metal.

lord lucan

nelly17 wrote: »

According to the Metallica Facebook and their website it looks like they forgot him, no mention of the day. Shocking really

The band certainly didn't forget. They played Orion in Rio 2 nights before the anniversary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-GPCESkft8

lord lucan

This just popped up on Metallica's Facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEQuDkpxXGU

Sephiroth_dude

what a fantastic bass player,I remember hearing the bass part at the start of for whom the bell tolls and hearing Anesthesia and thinking it was a guitar,only for my brother to later tell me it was bass guitar

Seth Brundle

Riddle101 wrote: »

Just thinking about the whole Jason Newsted thing. He left Metallica because he wanted to try some of his own things. Maybe form another band and such, but still be in Metallica. Which led the to James telling him he couldn't do it and in the end it led to Jason's departure.

James' two faced-ness regarding Jason doing side projects followed years of crap dished out by the other three. I'm surprised he stayed for so long.

jpm4 wrote: »

I think they would have gone in pretty much the same direction regardless of whether Cliff was still alive or not.

Cliff steered much of the musical direction. Had he still been around, I would think that he would have encouraged the band to explore a lot more. Would he have allowed the C&W tunes during the 90s, we'll never know but I like to think not.
He also would have ensured that the bass levels on AJFA wouldn't have been as crap as they are.


Anyhow, 25years on. Still missed. I'd recommend to anyone who would like to know more about him to read Joel McIver's book, To Live is to die. A good read with input from many different people who were lucky to have known, lived and partied with him.

nacho libre

kbannon wrote: »

Anyhow, 25years on. Still missed. I'd recommend to anyone who would like to know more about him to read Joel McIver's book, To Live is to die. A good read with input from many different people who were lucky to have known, lived and partied with him.

Yes. A great book.

I suspect Cliff would have eventually left the band in frustration if they hadn't acceded to his wishes.

jpm4

kbannon wrote: »

Cliff steered much of the musical direction. Had he still been around, I would think that he would have encouraged the band to explore a lot more. Would he have allowed the C&W tunes during the 90s, we'll never know but I like to think not.
He also would have ensured that the bass levels on AJFA wouldn't have been as crap as they are.
.

Well Hetfield was definitely the main songwriter at least back then so as far as I'm concerned he called the shots (I don't really buy those Ulrich co writing credits - what exactly was he supposed to have written?) But to be sure Burton had some influence on the sound, I just don't think he was ever the keeper of the Metal flame that some people make out he was.

True regarding the bass levels on Justice although even when Burton was in the band I always thought the bass was too low in the mix - I struggle to make the bass out on Master of Puppets unless he was playing a lead.

jack presley

jpm4 wrote: »

I don't really buy those Ulrich co writing credits - what exactly was he supposed to have written?

I think Lars is more responsible for the arrangements of the songs. For example in Enter Sandman, Kirk came up with the riff but it was Lars who came up with playing it three times before the change as opposed to the one time that Kirk wrote.

(there are probably technical terms that someone else can clarify more with)

jpm4

jack presley wrote: »

I think Lars is more responsible for the arrangements of the songs. For example in Enter Sandman, Kirk came up with the riff but it was Lars who came up with playing it three times before the change as opposed to the one time that Kirk wrote.

(there are probably technical terms that someone else can clarify more with)

Yeah that's my understanding as well....that's arranging not writing, just a certain Dane's ego that has him down as co writer on those tracks IMO.

jack presley

jpm4 wrote: »

.that's arranging not writing,.

Either way, I still think you get your name on the credits.

Riddle101

kbannon wrote: »

Cliff steered much of the musical direction. Had he still been around, I would think that he would have encouraged the band to explore a lot more. Would he have allowed the C&W tunes during the 90s, we'll never know but I like to think not.
He also would have ensured that the bass levels on AJFA wouldn't have been as crap as they are.

Anyhow, 25years on. Still missed. I'd recommend to anyone who would like to know more about him to read Joel McIver's book, To Live is to die. A good read with input from many different people who were lucky to have known, lived and partied with him.

jpm4 wrote: »

Well Hetfield was definitely the main songwriter at least back then so as far as I'm concerned he called the shots (I don't really buy those Ulrich co writing credits - what exactly was he supposed to have written?) But to be sure Burton had some influence on the sound, I just don't think he was ever the keeper of the Metal flame that some people make out he was.

True regarding the bass levels on Justice although even when Burton was in the band I always thought the bass was too low in the mix - I struggle to make the bass out on Master of Puppets unless he was playing a lead.

Just on the whole Justice for all thing. The reason the bass was low was because Lars edited out Jason Newsted on the album, because he didn't like him or something. or rather he just didn't feel happy about Jason at the time, so he f*cked around with the album. So if Cliff was still alive I don't think the bass thing would have been a problem because Lars didn't have problems with Cliff and I'm sure he would have allowed it. Had he not, you can bet Cliff would have given him a good kick up the arse.

scudzilla

Riddle101 wrote: »

Just on the whole Justice for all thing. The reason the bass was low was because Lars edited out Jason Newsted on the album, because he didn't like him or something. or rather he just didn't feel happy about Jason at the time, so he f*cked around with the album. So if Cliff was still alive I don't think the bass thing would have been a problem because Lars didn't have problems with Cliff and I'm sure he would have allowed it. Had he not, you can bet Cliff would have given him a good kick up the arse.

Are people forgettin here that if Cliff had of survived, chances are Lars was getting booted out of the band

jpm4

scudzilla wrote: »

Are people forgettin here that if Cliff had of survived, chances are Lars was getting booted out of the band

Is that based on anything save Dave Mustaine heard something from Scott Ian to that affect? It doesn't seem very likely to me, I mean it was basically Lars band.

viadah

It doesn't matter if you're a founder of a band in the end, look at what happened to the Sugababes.

Anywho, still off thread but on conversational topic, wasn't it James 'You're-in-Metallica-You-Only-Do-Metallica' Hetfield's uncredited guest spot in the 'South Park' movie that pushed Newsted over the edge?

Seth Brundle

I think South Park was the tip of s large iceberg as far as Jasonic was concerned

viadah

Obviously, but I can imagine the guy's frustration at being told 'no side projects for Metallica' then Hetfield decides to guest spot on the movie. It was an ace movie though.

jpm4

viadah wrote: »

Obviously, but I can imagine the guy's frustration at being told 'no side projects for Metallica' then Hetfield decides to guest spot on the movie. It was an ace movie though.

I've always had a lot of sympathy towards Jason for how he was treated in Metallica, but in fairness to Hetfield having a tiny cameo in a movie is hardly the same thing as a proper side project.

Riddle101

jpm4 wrote: »

I've always had a lot of sympathy towards Jason for how he was treated in Metallica, but in fairness to Hetfield having a tiny cameo in a movie is hardly the same thing as a proper side project.

Agreed.

While South Park may have been a bit of a side project, it wasn't like he was working with another band or anything, he was still very much all about Metallica. I think Jason wanted to form a second band or something, and James felt that it would take away from Metallica. His focus would be tied up in other things, and what would happen if Jason decided to tour with this other band? that type of thing.

viadah

http://www.afgrant.com/metallica/playboy.htm

On James' various appearances as a guest (COC, South Park):
JN: "I can't play my ****, but he can go play with other people."

JH: "My name is not on those records. And I'm not out trying to sell them."

I'll agree with both above posters there, like I said it would have tipped him over the edge, as an isolated incident the 'South Park' cameo I'm sure wouldn't have meant much but it was a cumulative effect that ended with Jason's quitting.