Buying new for a learner, opinions?

rat_race

A noob motorcyclist here, about to begin IBT. I always buy cars second hand, but I'm not so sure about a MB...

I'm toying with the idea of buying a *new* bike, rather than 2nd hand, after the IBT is over; for several reasons:

- Reduce the worry of potentially dangerous problems while driving
- Reduce likelihood of expensive engine problems
- Easier to go to a reputable shop than trusting strangers privately-selling
- More inclined to look after something when bought new, without problems
- For the first time, I can afford a new vehicle (not that I like handing over more than I have to)

I know beginners like to drop their bikes a lot, and that's one of my main concerns; who wants to destroy a new bike?

New or old, I plan to buy a 250cc, 25kW, keeping within the law (I wouldn't want anything bigger anyway, until I'm very confident).

So, I think it's a bad idea because:
- New bikes + beginner = inevitable drops + damaged bike
- Costs a lot for something that many say I will "get bored" of with experience

So, what's your opinion on new vs. old? I'm sure there'll be mixed opinions on whether this is a good or bad idea. Also, is dropping a bike that common?

More info:
I'm 26 and an experienced cyclist + motorist. Motorbike would be for recreation + commuting (both on roads); motorway + national roads included. It would also be kept outside, in a driveway (with cover) -- at least where I currently live.

P.S., feel free to recommend potential new beginner bikes (i.e., still being made in 2010/2011, available in Ireland/Leinster, and preferably naked)...

Roadskill

In my opinion you cant go wrong with a Honda cbf250 as a first bike. I use them for IBT and nearly everyone loves it. They are a naked bike and under the 25kw so no need to restrict. They will do 80 mph if you want it to and about 70 mpg, good build quality and will always sell on well.


Good luck

Roadskill

cantdecide

Thing about learner bikes is that they're only ever a stepping stone. A mate of mine has had his for six months and he was cursing it after a couple of months of riding. He's just after buying the restricted Bandit he sould have bought to begin with.

I was 26 and in much the same position as you are now when I started. As a novice I wobbled off on an older, rough but mechanically solid Bandit 600. 2 years later, I was very comfortable pootling about on a Blackbird.

My point is that if you wish to be proactive, and I think you do, you will be a wobbly learner for a lot shorter a time than you think. Do you know you can legally drive a Hayabusa (128KW) as a learner if you get it restricted to 25KW?

Personally, I'd go an do the IBT and get a 'ROSPA Grade 2 assessment' into the deal with your trainer. That will get you legal and make you a safe/ competent enough rider. Make sure some of your training is done on a restricted 600cc+ bike for experience.

What bikes do you actually fantasize about owning? Big nakeds like CB1300s etc? My second bike was the restricted GSX1400 I still own. I got that when I was driving about 5 months.

defike

Bought cbf250 just to do my test on.Passed first time selling bike now on adverts.IE.

rat_race

Roadskill wrote: »

In my opinion you cant go wrong with a Honda cbf250 as a first bike. I use them for IBT and nearly everyone loves it. They are a naked bike and under the 25kw so no need to restrict. They will do 80 mph if you want it to and about 70 mpg, good build quality and will always sell on well.

Thanks, everyone recommends this bike. They're not being made anymore, so deffo a second hand one would be the job.

cantdecide wrote: »

Thing about learner bikes is that they're only ever a stepping stone. A mate of mine has had his for six months and he was cursing it after a couple of months of riding. He's just after buying the restricted Bandit he sould have bought to begin with.

I was 26 and in much the same position as you are now when I started. As a novice I wobbled off on an older, rough but mechanically solid Bandit 600. 2 years later, I was very comfortable pootling about on a Blackbird.

My point is that if you wish to be proactive, and I think you do, you will be a wobbly learner for a lot shorter a time than you think. Do you know you can legally drive a Hayabusa (128KW) as a learner if you get it restricted to 25KW?

Personally, I'd go an do the IBT and get a 'ROSPA Grade 2 assessment' into the deal with your trainer. That will get you legal and make you a safe/ competent enough rider. Make sure some of your training is done on a restricted 600cc+ bike for experience.

What bikes do you actually fantasize about owning? Big nakeds like CB1300s etc? My second bike was the restricted GSX1400 I still own. I got that when I was driving about 5 months.

I agree that a keen rider will learn quickly, but I think a heavier bike, legal or not, will make it much more difficult to get comfortable with cornering, etc...no? I'm a noob, so this is just coming from hearsay!

I will look into ROSPA, but I kind of thought the (mandatory) IBT replaced that? The other thing about restricting big bikes is the insurance costs still costs full whack...:(

What's the difference between a restricted Bandit 600 and a learner bike of similar power (or is it?), what does he prefer about it?

defike wrote: »

Bought cbf250 just to do my test on.Passed first time selling bike now on adverts.IE.

Cool, I'll take a look...

cantdecide

IBT is only a recent legal requirement for what ROSPA insurance assessments have been doing for years. They are very similar but IBT won't save you money on your insurance or give you more access to better bikes but the assessment will. Getting the assessment is barely any additional effort, IMO.

I won't labour the point but in my opinion, if you were 18, you'd be very constrained as to what would be available to you. Don't go for a CBF250 if you don't have to would be my recommendation anyone of your age or older. I never struggled with bigger bikes. I had my restricted GSX1400 as my second ever bike after just a four or five months. That's why it's important too to use a school that has bigger, restricted bikes so you can get a sense of what they're about. When I took my training, I did a day on a CBF250 and the next day was on a factory Transalp 650 that I used to pass my test on.

Biking is expensive but there is a huge difference between cost and value. The most important thing for you to decide is what bike you actually want. START THERE. You may not have access to bikes you fancy but equally, you might find an extra couple of ton on insurance might put you on your dream bike instead of a learner bike. Cost vs Value.

cantdecide

rat_race wrote: »

What's the difference between a restricted Bandit 600 and a learner bike of similar power (or is it?), what does he prefer about it?...

The Bandit will drive like a 'proper' bike up to motorway speeds. The CBF will be pretty slow right across the range, IME.

daenerysstormborn3

I wouldn't bother spending money on a new bike, especially if you're thinking of going the route of a 125/250. You will get bored of them very quickly and for that kind of money you'd want to be buying something for keeps.

My first bike was free, my second bike €900, my boyfriend's first bike cost £50 :P

I say get yourself onto donedeal and check out the bike mags for something used.

Look for a CB400 as they're a bit bulkier and really hold themselves over the years. Mine is 18 years old and I have had not one bit of bother with it.

You could always buy a brand new 400 or 600 but to be honest I think you'd be wasting your money. Save towards the 1000.

Roadskill

cantdecide wrote: »

IBT is only a recent legal requirement for what ROSPA insurance assessments have been doing for years. They are very similar but IBT won't save you money on your insurance or give you more access to better bikes but the assessment will. Getting the assessment is barely any additional effort, IMO.

I won't labour the point but in my opinion, if you were 18, you'd be very constrained as to what would be available to you. Don't go for a CBF250 if you don't have to would be my recommendation anyone of your age or older. I never struggled with bigger bikes. I had my restricted GSX1400 as my second ever bike after just a four or five months. That's why it's important too to use a school that has bigger, restricted bikes so you can get a sense of what they're about. When I took my training, I did a day on a CBF250 and the next day was on a factory Transalp 650 that I used to pass my test on.

Biking is expensive but there is a huge difference between cost and value. The most important thing for you to decide is what bike you actually want. START THERE. You may not have access to bikes you fancy but equally, you might find an extra couple of ton on insurance might put you on your dream bike instead of a learner bike. Cost vs Value.

Try not to get mixed up with the different type of qualifications.

1. IBT is a mandatory 16 hour basic training course since December 6th last year for all new learner permit holders.
2. Aon/Quinn assessments were introduced by those 2 insurance companies for their benefit since 2004. A grading system and risk assessment by qualified instructors approved by them.
3. RoSPA is an advanced test which is the highest civilian qualification available if passed at gold standard.

Don't forget that not all riders are the same so what was good for you may not be good for someone else. Motorcyclists need to learn their craft and this may mean starting small and working up slowly. We should never start on a motorcycle that you can't handle as it could have the opposite effect and put you off biking.

Roadskill

inchiuvatu

as mentioned above, i wouldn't buy a new bike straight off and especially not a 250cc. there isn't much difference to riding a 250cc or a restricted 600. as long as you stay with a similar style of bike it shouldn't phase you to move up in engine size because the power output is similar but with a restricted bike you will get more use out of your bike after the restriction period is up.

im biking just over a year now and i started on a 08 cbr125 and got bored within a month. cost 1400 sold for 1250 3 months later and the bike was still mint but couldn't get the money for it.

next bike was a 93 CB400 Super four, was a non runner and i fixed it up with the guidance of a friend got it restircted new tires a few lovely trick parts like braided brake lines stubby carbon exhaust bike cost 500+about 750 on all parts and restriction and sold for €1000.. loved the bike and the only reason i sold it was because i got my third bike and couldn't afford to insure two bikes.

Third bike is a 00 cbr600 bought for a value of 1500 and i wont sell it for a long time because once my restriction is over my 33bhp bike becomes 100bhp and a completely new bike.

if you buy a new bike you will lose alot of its value when you try to sell it again... i would save the money from a new bike and put it into getting really fancy nice gear. look out for a cb400 a bandit 600 or a fazer400/600, make sure when buying a bike that you bring someone that knows what their talking about or if its a DD add or adverts pop it up and we can give opinions on it.

Happy Hunting

simplybam

Another thing to keep in mind - methinks - is that the vast majority of bikers look after their bikes a lot more than most car drivers do with their cars. You notice any problems with a bike much more than with a car and the potential consequences are much harsher.

I'm not saying there aren't any lemons out there when bikes are concerned, but they're definitely few and far in between. So buying a second hand bike is much safer than buying a second hand car.

Just my tuppence worth. I'd recommend you go for a 600cc restricted and you can drive that for a good few years.

thewatch

You won't drop it if your competent on an instructors bike. I wouldn't spend big on a beginner bike tbh.

If your getting one second hand have a biker mate who knows their stuff look at the bike and make sure there's absolutely no work needed

I think restricted bandit/fazer/SV is the way to go in your situation

BlackWizard

I bought a restricted Suzuki GS500. I think it's a lovely bike. Cheaper than the bandit and seems to be just as reliable. There is lots of torque on it so there's no need to rev the nuts off it. I like bikes like that.

Plus it's very easy to take the restrictor out if you like. It doesn't make a massive difference, but it is noticable especially after 7k revs where normally the power fades out on the restricted engine.

rat_race

Thank you all for the comments, great help...

I'll deffo post here for opinions when I am buying. Haven't even started the IBT yet (hopefully next week) so I'm at least weeks/a month away from seriously looking to buy...

Cheers,
C

DF1

Found this topic interesting to read.

I'm starting at the biking in the next couple of months too with IBT.

I always would have imagined that starting on something like a 250 and working upwards was the way to go over a couple of years - seems not always the best way.

Always liked the Harley 883 sportster but ruled it out because of the power.

Maybe I should give the idea a rethink ?

Please Kill Me

DF1 wrote: »

Found this topic interesting to read.

I'm starting at the biking in the next couple of months too with IBT.

I always would have imagined that starting on something like a 250 and working upwards was the way to go over a couple of years - seems not always the best way.

Always liked the Harley 883 sportster but ruled it out because of the power.

Maybe I should give the idea a rethink ?

Yes, start small. People new to biking tend to under-estimate the power of bikes. It's so easy to get a fright on one. It'll take time to start small and work your way up, but it's worth it.

daenerysstormborn3

Another thing to bear in mind is that when you do drop the bike, you want something that you will actually be able to lift on your own. No point getting a big harley or whatever and when it comes to dropping it you can't lift it. That's another reason to start off on something smaller and lighter.

DF1

Thought this website had a lot of information

http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/

It's a bit american but makes sense.

oleras

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Another thing to bear in mind is that when you do drop the bike, you want something that you will actually be able to lift on your own. No point getting a big harley or whatever and when it comes to dropping it you can't lift it. That's another reason to start off on something smaller and lighter.

Plenty of vids on youtube of people, even ladies, lifting goldwings, its all in the technique...seemingly, haven't had to lift mine yet

rat_race

DF1 wrote: »

Thought this website had a lot of information

http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/

It's a bit american but makes sense.

Good site!

Morgoth

Just completed IBT on a combination of a CB250 and CB400 and honestly found the 400 easier to manage. It just felt so much sturdier and responsive while not being too heavy or powerful to handle. I am looking at 600's for imminent purchase, not sure if 600 is too much but my experience in the training suggests that it won't be. Also I'm guessing/hoping that if I found 400 fine after just a few hours, I should be able to handle a 600 after a few weeks of practice.

OTOH a 250/400 will be the cheaper purchase and presumably less on insurance... still in two minds on what to do.

For 600's, Suzuki Bandit pops up time and time again as a beginner recommendation... Any comments on any of these (links below)? I am going to get around to some dealer shops (in Galway) this weekend to see what's on offer locally.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/motorbikes/1529033
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/motorbikes/1977089
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/motorbikes/2605862

RosieJoe

Bandit is a great bike to get. Try going for a Factory Restricted model as this will get you cheaper insurance as opposed to an aftermarket restriction kit, less hassle with insurance companies also.

06 One for €4200 is overpriced
08 One is not an 08 bike as this model was water cooled and had a silver engine, the 07 model was oil cooled and had a black engine.