Does Dublin need a specialized Garda bike theft unit?

Aviator55

London, Seattle and Amsterdam have them.
A letter to the "Irish Times" today mentions a victim of bike theft who was advised to go to a market in North Cumberland street to buy his bike back from the robbers.
Even a short term task force could achieve a lot, if the Guards could be arsed.

Raam

Good idea, but I hope they make it a giant squad.

Raam

Actually, before you mentioned it, I never felt that we needed one.

Jawgap

Yes - the sooner the collars of the thieves are Felt the better - it might be some Trek to catch them, so they would need to decide where to Focus. Although they shouldn't have to work on a Sabbath.

If they confine themselves to the city centre people might get Huffy or even Surly. If they could move at Litespeed they could cover both, or if they were magicians like Merlin, they could bi-locate. If they did they would present thieves with an enigma.

Anyway, hopefully if they catch some thieves they'll prosecute rather than just put black merckx against them and let them off Scott free - Puch them out to Planet X to get rid of them. Hopefully the Guards will be Vitus on that point.

Piercemeear

I'd never considered this before, but it's not a bad idea. They did post extra gardai in the IFSC recently to try to prevent iPhone snatchers on bikes. It seems that if you moved those gardai over to a unit tasked with cutting down bike theft you might address the problem at the source... ha.

Raam

Where would they even start to look for stolen bikes?

DirkVoodoo

Aviator55 wrote: »

London, Seattle and Amsterdam have them.
A letter to the "Irish Times" today mentions a victim of bike theft who was advised to go to a market in North Cumberland street to buy his bike back from the robbers.
Even a short term task force could achieve a lot, if the Guards could be arsed.

Sometimes I wonder who is worse really.

I was on Cuffe street yesterday, heading towards Kevin street and stopped at the lights at the junction. To my right, a boy racer (badly "pimped" ford focus, jesus wept!) was making an illegal right turn onto Kevin street when a Garda van pulled up and had a few words. Fine, enforce the law, great!

Their light turns red, myself and the other traffic begins to head off as our light is now green when the Garda van just carries on through the junction, with another car glued to his bumper following through as well. There was no siren, no emergency as they sat in traffic on Camden street.

What chance do people have when those entrusted with enforcing the law can't put up any type of example themselves? The light was red a good while, it was pretty much just giving two-fingers to the rest of us. Yeah, we can break the law and there is nothing you can do about it.

So, I'm not surprised that was the advice given for recovering a stolen bike and I'm not holding out hope for a task force. Let's be fair, the Gardai do a pretty good job most of the time, but that kind of disregard filters its way down through society. Feck it, I'll steal a bike, no one will mind.

Lumen

I would happily take on a volunteer role as a "special", if I got a free hurley, life insurance and immunity from prosecution.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

I would happily take on a volunteer role as a "special", if I got a free hurley, life insurance and immunity from prosecution.

Seriously? You wouldn't know what to do with it. This is more you:

ednwireland

Raam wrote: »

Where would they even start to look for stolen bikes?

did you not read the letter !

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224304799940

Sir, – My son saved up for a year to buy a bicycle that was stolen from where it was secured (with a U-lock that was cut through) outside our house. The Garda advice was to go to a market on North Cumberland Street in Dublin 1 to try and locate it. At this market were tens of young males who were selling very expensive adult bicycles for far under market prices. Shouldn’t the Garda monitor this market and examine some of these goods? I left the market sickened and angry that nothing is seen to be done to deter such activities. – Yours, etc,

north cumberland street obviousley

Raam

ednwireland wrote: »

did you not read the letter !

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224304799940



north cumberland street obviousley

Ah come on, tell me you got my posts.

Jawgap

To answer the question seriously - we may "need" one but we shouldn't have one - leave the Guards alone to investigate proper crimes, rather than relatively trivial crimes against non-essential property.

I know a lot of bikes are nicked to feed drug habits, but stopping bike theft isn't going to impact the drug problem - they'll just go steal something else.

Of course, I reserve the right to change that position if one of my bikes ever gets nicked!

Raam

What kinds of property are essential?

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

What kinds of property are essential?

Cycles. Cycling shoes. Cycling socks. Cycling hats. Cycling jerseys. Cycling gloves. Cycling jackets. Gilets. Overshoes. Cover socks. Arm warmers. Knee warmers. Eurosport receiving device. Eurosport viewing device. Belgian beer.

DirkVoodoo

Stealing bikes is a gateway to bigger crimes, like tandem bikes.

I think the point of the article was that this crime is so blatant, it would take very little police resources to sort it. If people thought bikes were too much hassle to steal, they wouldn't bother.

You say that these guys would instead try stealing other things. That's true, but if you keep making it difficult to steal and sell stolen goods, they might find that yes, the drugs don't work, they just make your worse. Now go get a job and become a functioning member of society before Lumen bashes your skull in.

-Chris-

The problem for the Gardai is that they're evidence gatherers rather than prosecutors. They'll need to be able to prove to a judge that the bike was definitely nicked.

Because there's no central bike register, because (nearly) nobody knows the serial number off their bike, because nobody gets their bike security tagged, then the Gardai find it hard to mate bikes with ex-owners.

How many people with BSOs, or unmodified Halfords bikes, would be able to prove to a Garda/court "yep, that's definitely my bike"?

I don't know if the Gardai are allowed to head up to North Cumberland St and just start confiscating bikes saying "I'm pretty sure that's not yours", and even if they did, what would they do with the bikes?

IMHO there's not much point in a specialised Garda bike theft unit until the cycling public start registering or tagging their bikes.

Kintarō Hattori

If my car was stolen and I went to the cops I'm sure they'd take it pretty seriously. If my bike was stolen and I went to the cops I can't see them taking things too seriously. They both cost roughly the same.

I get the impression that a lot of people still see bikes as 'play things', something not to be taken too seriously.

HivemindXX

I don't agree with the idea that bikes are non-essential and therefore them being stolen shouldn't be worried about. Do we have a special unit for car theft? Even if we don't I'm pretty sure a motorist would not be happy to report his car stolen only to get told "realistically no change of getting that back, maybe you should go out to Belgard and see if you can find it parked in a showroom".

What Chris said is far more relevant. It's hard to prove that bike is yours if you don't know the frame number. If the guards could go along to someplace and check all the frame numbers and arrest anyone selling a stolen bike or a bike with the frame number missing or altered stealing bikes would be a bit less attractive.

It's worth repeating the advice I use (which actually resulted in me getting stolen bike back).

When you buy a bike take a photograph of it, print it out, write the frame number on the back and staple the receipt to it. This helps a lot when you want to report it stolen. If everyone did this stealing bikes would be a lot less profitable and therefore a lot less common.

Jawgap

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Stealing bikes is a gateway to bigger crimes, like tandem bikes.

I think the point of the article was that this crime is so blatant, it would take very little police resources to sort it. If people thought bikes were too much hassle to steal, they wouldn't bother.

You say that these guys would instead try stealing other things. That's true, but if you keep making it difficult to steal and sell stolen goods, they might find that yes, the drugs don't work, they just make your worse. Now go get a job and become a functioning member of society before Lumen bashes your skull in.

True - you don't see too many tandems around so they must all be getting nicked and melted down to make unicycles.

If they can't steal easy stuff locked to lamposts with locks no better than wet twine what might they steal - hand bags from old dears, or start entering properties to filch stuff, increasing the risk of someone getting injured.

Legalising drugs is really the answer to the problem of bike theft.

I'm not too worried about Lumen - he wouldn't know which end of the hurley to use:)

Jawgap

Raam wrote: »

What kinds of property are essential?

Only those needed to meet your immediate physiological needs:)

monument

The national cycle policy has something to day about this (as it does about most things)...

Tackling Bicycle Theft and Vandalism
We will develop a national strategy to tackle bicycle theft in collaboration with stakeholders. This is likely to include cycling organizations, Local Authorities, An Garda Síochána, bicycle shops, lock manufacturers, insurance companies, producers of parking equipment etc. Such a strategy is likely to include recommendations on the need to develop a national register / database of bikes, publications aimed at cyclists advising them on how to / where to lock bikes, specific policies dealing with abandoned bicycles etc.

There are plans by Gardai and others currently to raise awareness on locking bikes correctly.

Lusk Doyle

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes - the sooner the collars of the thieves are Felt the better - it might be some Trek to catch them, so they would need to decide where to Focus. Although they shouldn't have to work on a Sabbath.

If they confine themselves to the city centre people might get Huffy or even Surly. If they could move at Litespeed they could cover both, or if they were magicians like Merlin, they could bi-locate. If they did they would present thieves with an enigma.

Anyway, hopefully if they catch some thieves they'll prosecute rather than just put black merckx against them and let them off Scott free - Puch them out to Planet X to get rid of them. Hopefully the Guards will be Vitus on that point.

Too clever. I bet you that took ages and a few re-reads to get it right!

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

I would happily take on a volunteer role as a "special", if I got a free hurley, life insurance and immunity from prosecution.

You're in Leinster boy. Use the correct term :cool:

kincsem

I have two Specialized bikes. So its a yes from me.

Jawgap

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Too clever. I bet you that took ages and a few re-reads to get it right!

First para was easy enough - you can see I was struggling by the third!!!

07Lapierre

Imagine this lot patrolling our streets on blue and white pinarello's and blue flashing light s on there helmets! Nice!

Raam

Jawgap wrote: »

First para was easy enough - you can see I was struggling by the third!!!

That's why I went with the single line per post approach.

PandyAndy

-Chris- wrote: »

...

Because there's no central bike register, because (nearly) nobody knows the serial number off their bike, because nobody gets their bike security tagged, then the Gardai find it hard to mate bikes with ex-owners.

...

Was going to say the same thing. I'd be surprised if most people even knew their bike had a serial number.

monument

It's worth noting that even if your bike is stolen and you have not recorded it, some bike shops keep that information in their database.

Bunnyhopper

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Stealing bikes is a gateway to bigger crimes

Sgt Harrington says teenagers and young men are becoming involved in on-street bike thefts because they can make some money and believe the chances of being caught, like the sanctions, are minimal. “They think, Bikes are handy: I won’t get caught. But it’s now acting as a gateway crime to more serious offending.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0910/1224303828309.html

monument

While there are a good few older junkies who nick bikes, the young guys at it are training.

Gateway drug is the wrong way to look at it. Everybody has to start off somewhere in their working life.

reallyunique

Dublin does not need a specialized Garda bike unit, at least not until I've gone to that market and sorted out a new bike.

The community at large doesn't take cycling seriously, so bike theft doesn't register at all. It's nice to see the police offering realistic advice on where to get your bike back though. Probably a lot cheaper than insurance.

Aviator55

Maybe we need a petty crime squad for unicycles.

Seriously though, a half dozen guys for a month, staking out regular thieves haunts, sticking the odd transponder in bikes liable to be nicked, and arresting a few dozen scrotes, would make the rest of them think twice.

Of course if they moved on the nicking those of us who think red traffic lights are are purely for information that would be bad.

aloyisious

Yes to the idea.

Lyaiera

I know this is a bumped thread, but I started cycling in the city for the first time in Cork over the weekend. I rang up Anglesea St. Garda Station and asked if they have a database of frame numbers for bikes in case it's ever stolen and recovered. They said they didn't but they put me through to the property section and the Garda there said if I posted in my details he'd be happy to keep them in his own notes should the bike ever turn up somewhere.

That day I sent in my name, address, e-mail, telephone number, frame number, colour of the bike, the type of bike and a list of distinguishing marks. It's probably going to sit in some drawer for years but I thought the Garda was being incredibly decent, especially when there's no official method of doing this.

daddyorchips

Mind your own bike

buffalo

Lyaiera wrote: »

I know this is a bumped thread, but I started cycling in the city for the first time in Cork over the weekend. I rang up Anglesea St. Garda Station and asked if they have a database of frame numbers for bikes in case it's ever stolen and recovered. They said they didn't but they put me through to the property section and the Garda there said if I posted in my details he'd be happy to keep them in his own notes should the bike ever turn up somewhere.

That day I sent in my name, address, e-mail, telephone number, frame number, colour of the bike, the type of bike and a list of distinguishing marks. It's probably going to sit in some drawer for years but I thought the Garda was being incredibly decent, especially when there's no official method of doing this.

They've got a binder in the Bridewell in Dublin, they take all that info if you register with them.

aloyisious

There is, or was a Garda form available to the public which has spaces for frame No, etc details of your bike. The crime prevention units at some stations used to have engraving and U/V marking tool kits which could be used on metal, etc, so you could put your own I/d marks on a frame, wheel rims, bars etc and include those details on the completed form as well. If they are still available, keep a copy of the form in your insurance file at home.

manwithaplan

Don't we have enough problems with criminals nicking bikes without the Gardaí getting in on the act too?

Surveyor11

Or you could go here:

http://www.bikeregister.ie/register.php

Information is apparently shared with the Guards. Also used for reporting stolen bikes.

buffalo

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Or you could go here:

http://www.bikeregister.ie/register.php

Information is apparently shared with the Guards. Also used for reporting stolen bikes.

I've seen that site before... does anyone know who runs it? I'm not suggesting it's a giant scam set up by thieves to collect data on fancy bikes, but in terms of trustworthiness, privacy protection, sharing your info with the Gardaí... there's a lot of dodgy legal areas there. I think you should go straight to the Gardaí if you want to register your rothar.

derealbadger

Raam wrote: »

Actually, before you mentioned it, I never felt that we needed one.

It went over the heads of the less intelligent but I thought it was very good

aloyisious

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Or you could go here:

http://www.bikeregister.ie/register.php

Information is apparently shared with the Guards. Also used for reporting stolen bikes.

Nice idea, but..... one thing - how is the data protected so that Joe Thief doesn't use it to look for his next "job"?

aloyisious

manwithaplan wrote: »

Don't we have enough problems with criminals nicking bikes without the Gardaí getting in on the act too?

Ah come on now, we've got to get them involved too. Think of the exercise they'll get.