Unsafe Traffic Lights

dilallio

There is a set of traffic lights near here I live which are unsafe, and only yesterday I witnessed a crash.

Are there any regulations in Ireland (or Europe) which dictate best practice for the construction and operation of traffic lights?

I would like to examine these before making a submission to our local authority.

Thanks,
dilallio

Mods: I couldn't think of a better forum for this, but please feel free to move it, if appropriate.

corktina

just curious...in what way are they unsafe?

dilallio

It's a valid question. Apologies for this long explanation - I hope I don't put anyone to sleep.

The junction in question is at the top of Threadneedle Road in Galway City. Here is an aerial view of the junction. There are 2 large schools within 200 metres of the junction.

It's a 4 way junction with traffic lights which is on the top of a steep hill. The hill is going up from south to north, and traffic coming from the south can only see 10 - 15 metres on the north side of the junction.
See google streetview here for a better view.

This would not be an issue but the light sequence was changed a while back to cope with increased traffic coming onto the junction from the north. This is resulting in the traffic lights for cars coming up the hill (south to north) being switched to red approx 40 secs before the lights coming from the opposite direction turn red.

Cars coming from the south who wish to turn right have to wait for the junction to be clear before turning right as per normal, but the 40 sec delay, combined with the limited view of oncoming traffic puts them frequently stuck in no-mans-land, especially when the lights turn amber and then red.

Because of the very limited view of oncoming traffic, when it looks like there is a break in oncoming traffic, they enter the junction and prepare to turn right. In the few moments that this occurs, traffic can appear again suddenly from the north.

There is no yellow box anywhere in the junction which might keep cars off the junction unless the exit is clear.

I was walking the kids home from school yesterday and was on the foothpath near the lights when a car turning right started to turn just as the lights turned to amber. Suddenly a car came from the north and they collided. The car from the north hit the foothpath beside us, but luckily did not mount the foothpath. We were very lucky.

The Gardai who arrived asked for statements from witnesses, and told me that there are a high number of accidents on this junction due to the light sequencing.

There are at least a couple of ways of improving the safety at this junction. They could alter the lights back to their original sequencing. They could also make it illegal for cars coming up the hill to turn right, and force them straight and around the roundabout which is 350 metres away.

I would like to write to the council, but I am a novice and was wondering if there were any guidelines or regulations which I should first check. My proposils could be against some regulations so I want to check my facts first, before wasting anyones time.

Thanks for your patience.

ardmacha

If visibility is restricted then another possible change would be to replace the green ball with a straight ahead arrow and a right turn arrow. In this scenario traffic would only a able to turn right when traffic coming the other way is stopped.

dilallio

You are correct. From a safety perspective that is the best solution.

The issue the council have with that solution, is that it will reduce the flow of traffic coming from the north which is very busy during peak times. This is the very reason that they altered the sequencing in the first place. Previously, the lights turned red simultaneously for traffic going north to south and south to north. This gave cars turning right time to turn when the lights changed to amber, in the knowledge that anyone coming against them was also facing an amber signal.

I have only accounted for cars in my previous post. The only safe way for cyclists to turn right is to dismount and use 2 sets of pedestrian lights at this junction.

Sponge Bob

A car turning right here often has to do a serious hillstart to get going as well. Ya can't see that from the air.

dilallio

Update.

Unfortunately there was another more serious crash at this junction yesterday. This time a car mounted the foothpath and crashed over a wall at the same set of lights. The driver was taken away by ambulance.

If anyone could point me in the right direction on where to find the guidelines or regulations on traffic light placement & operation, I would really appreciate it.

I've looked at the NRA website but it's awful to navigate. Any links there which might be relevant, are dead links.

Many thanks,
dilallio

p.s. If there is a more appropriate forum where I should post this, can you let me know.

Zoney

I think the traffic signs manual has some information on this?

antoobrien

dilallio

The department of transport has published the latest version of the Traffic Signs Manual last year.

Chapter 9 might have some of the information you're looking for.

dilallio

Thanks Zoney & antoobrien.
That's exactly what I was looking for.
Fair play to you both - much appreciated :-)

antoobrien

dilallio wrote: »

Thanks Zoney & antoobrien.
That's exactly what I was looking for.
Fair play to you both - much appreciated :-)

You're welcome.

If you've got the time & patience there's probably some useful info as well in the NRA standards website - volumne 8 deals with Traffic Signs And Lighting.

Sponge Bob

The manual may post date the installation of the lights, perhaps by 20 years?

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The manual may post date the installation of the lights, perhaps by 20 years?

True, I remember lights there more than 20 years ago, but

dilallio wrote: »

This would not be an issue but the light sequence was changed a while back to cope with increased traffic coming onto the junction from the north.

So I suppose the question is were the sequences changed after the manual was published/updated and what effect it could/should have on the sequencing of the lights.

galwaycyclist

Cllr Peter Keane has raised issues over this junction you could contact him. There are other problems with it. There is a green left filter arrow on the kingston arm that has the effect of encouraging motorists to drive up on the footpath to get to it.

Cyclists who want to turn right from Threadneedle to Taylors could be given whats sometimes called a box turn on the Kingston arm.

Of course arguably the main problem is Galway City Council "chasing its own tail" catering for what is probably a lot of school run traffic coming from the North.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The manual may post date the installation of the lights, perhaps by 20 years?

I have a copy of RT181 Intersections at grade (the old standard) somewhere if you want cross check. In Galway you never know what you might find when you refer back to the literature the engineers claim to be using.

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

In Galway you never know what you might find when you refer back to the literature the engineers claim to be using.

In Galway there is no evidence they care about the literature so I'll not bother with teh offer but thanks.

And how come they never got a few feet off the Fort Lorenzo planning application in the 1990s to widen the Kingston Road just a tad, it was a chronic bottleneck then as now.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

In Galway there is no evidence they care about the literature so I'll not bother with teh offer but thanks.

And how come they never got a few feet off the Fort Lorenzo planning application in the 1990s to widen the Kingston Road just a tad, it was a chronic bottleneck then as now.

The offer was for the OP. Ah the vagaries of planning in Galway.