A rabble rousing load of ole balls!!!!!!!

mr.wiggle

Just to let you hard working tax payers where all your moneys goin...nice !
( Dismissed in an earlier thread as 'a rabble rousing load of ole balls, oh how I wish it was! )
<this link didn't work, just starts a new thread in AH, biko>



A LABOUR senator has questioned the need for massive social welfare payments to many families after revealing yesterday that some are receiving €90,000 a year.

Senator Jimmy Harte highlighted the case of one family who are being paid €1,763 per week.

The unemployed married couple, who have four children and live in Dublin, claim a range of social welfare benefits.

Mr Harte, who received the information from Department of Social Protection officials, said €50,000 is more than enough for a family to survive on.

The Donegal-based senator told the Irish Independent yesterday that he believed the figure was far too much to be handed to a family in support payments.

"The family are doing nothing illegal but the system is wrong when a couple are able to receive €90,000 per year for doing nothing. I don't think this sort of payment is acceptable in the good times, never mind the bad times we find ourselves in now.

"There are married couples in this country with two good jobs, working very hard and are not receiving anything like this.

"As well as receiving €90,000, they will not have to pay property tax or water charges. That is just wrong.

"You would need to be earning close to €140,000 to take that sort of money home after tax.

"This is a Dublin-based family but I know there are families in other counties receiving up to €85,000. They won't take in as much in rent allowance but they are still entitled to all the other payments," he said.

According to figures obtained by Mr Harte, the following is the weekly breakdown of the social welfare payments received by the family: father on disability allowance, €322; guardian's pension for child taken in, €286; rent supplement, €276; mother -- carer's allowance, €380; child benefit, €288; daughter (17) with special needs, €211.

Mr Harte said he has forwarded all this information on to the Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton and wants a cap put on welfare payments.

- Greg Harkin

Irish Independent

I love this bit -

Mr Harte, who received the information from Department of Social Protection officials, said €50,000 is more than enough for a family to survive on.

Jesus Wept

There is another thread on this.
Damn that disabled man, his full time carer wife, their special needs kid and their other kids.

Living the life of riley!!!

Also, the figures presented do not add up apparently, not that I care.

Dravokivich

But we still don't know what the story is about that particular family and what their circumstances are...

Irish Guitarist

It's easy for him to say this. He has no idea what this family is going through. Neither do I really as you don't say what disability the man has and what medical bills he might have or what the family has to pay to care for the child with special needs.

Also your link doesn't work. I don't want to start a new thread.

Ghandee

OP, at the minute you don't know anything about this family.

Put it this way, if a govt official approached you and asked ' how would you like us to pay you ninety grand a year sir?'

Sure Mr Govt official, sign me up sir, what have I got to do?

' Well here's the catch sunny Jim, nothing too serious but, we gotta make you disabled, and your daughter given a small procedure to leave her with special needs for the rest of her life.'

Would you sign on the dotted line Mr Wiggle? 90k worth the hardships?

King of Kings

he has a good point - just cos you tick a succession of boxes the state shouldn't just add up the benefits to a grand total.

If what the senator is saying is correct then it is wrong that a family on welfare earn the equivalent of a 140k salary and I say that in knowing that i don't know the circumstances.

The medical card sorts out all the disabled persons medical bills so it's kinda a non runner to claim I'm depriving them of x,y and z.

I beleive in the welfare state but just to blindly add up numbers for boxes ticked is stupid.

stupidusername

Shut up shut up SHUT UP!!

SEPT 23 1989

Im glad other people can see right through this bullsh1t

Hang your heads in shame Labour

seamus

The-Rigger wrote: »

There is another thread on this.
Damn that disabled man, his full time carer wife, their special needs kid and their other kids.

Not that you're specifically wrong, but what do you need to qualify for disability, and what do you need to qualify for "special needs" allowance for a child?

Genuine question. I've no issue with people who genuinely need assistance, but if he's getting disability because he's got a dodgy knee and walks with a stick, and he's got a daughter with dyslexia classified as "special needs", then they're not exactly having a hard life of it to justify this money.

Chuck Stone

Make them work in the banks.

El Weirdo

This seems to be the opposite end of the story about that guy from Tralee that wrote that letter to the Times a few weeks ago.

I am suspicious as this story as I was of that one. Need the facts before we start mouthing off.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I started the other thread that was dismissed, anyway i'm from letterkenny and i asked a freind of mine who is in the know and the man isn't that disabled. He has what i would called a disability of convenience. I'm saying no more and will not be replying further in this thread...but my original view is enforced, its is a f**king disgrace.

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

OP, at the minute you don't know anything about this family.

Put it this way, if a govt official approached you and asked ' how would you like us to pay you ninety grand a year sir?'

Sure Mr Govt official, sign me up sir, what have I got to do?

' Well here's the catch sunny Jim, nothing too serious but, we gotta make you disabled, and your daughter given a small procedure to leave her with special needs for the rest of her life.'

Would you sign on the dotted line Mr Wiggle? 90k worth the hardships?

I'd be asking Mr Govt official if he could take the baseball bat to the wifes knees instead. If he goes with that then happy days.:)

bbam

Why have we any need to beleive they are defrauding the state??
As I posted in the Last thread..
The bulk of the payments are to care for 3 persons whom if the state had to provide 24 hour care the costs would run to many times what they are in receipt of..

It costs about €800 a week for the state to care fo an individual, do the maths folks.. The state are paying them €1700 a week to care for each other in a family unit..
Put the three individuals into care and the bill for them will be >€2K a week, then there is the rest of the family whom will still need support, I don't know but I suppose about €400-€500 a week..

Providing the claims are above board (and I've seen no evidence to say there not) these people are saving the state about €1000-€1500 a week and making the best of their situation AND taking a child into their home who can enjoy a family environment which it otherwise wouldn't..

SHAME on those lambasting this family, or others on welfare supports without even a shred of evidence that any wrong is being done.

Not everyone on welfare is a sponge, bad enough that the officials in the separtment have that air to them without the general population stooping to the same lows.

bbam

CJC999 wrote: »

I started the other thread that was dismissed, anyway i'm from letterkenny and i asked a freind of mine who is in the know and the man isn't that disabled. He has what i would called a disability of convenience. I'm saying no more and will not be replying further in this thread...but my original view is enforced, its is a f**king disgrace.

Who the FU*C are you or your "friend in the know" to make any comment on this man's disability... :eek:
Get on with your own poxy life and leave those less fortunite alone.

Chuck Stone

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm saying no more and will not be replying further in this thread

But why?

hardCopy

CJC999 wrote: »

I started the other thread that was dismissed, anyway i'm from letterkenny and i asked a freind of mine who is in the know and the man isn't that disabled. He has what i would called a disability of convenience. I'm saying no more and will not be replying further in this thread...but my original view is enforced, its is a f**king disgrace.

Thanks for clearing that up...

Wibbs

bbam wrote: »

Providing the claims are above board (and I've seen no evidence to say there not) these people are saving the state about €1000-€1500 a week and making the best of their situation AND taking a child into their home who can enjoy a family environment which it otherwise wouldn't..

Jesus we really have lost the run of ourselves with our sense of entitlement. You can look at it the other way, is 90K a year too much to save the state money? That's a shít load of (tax free)cash to be working with for a family of four. If the special needs child requires medical attention that's covered by the medical card so the 90K isn't touched. Ditto for the father's needs. They're not paying a mortgage, nor schooling, nor various other charges those working might have to. There are many many families out there working hard to provide, and yes some with their own special needs kids getting by on significantly less than this figure. And they're entitled to significantly less help too.

SHAME on those lambasting this family, or others on welfare supports without even a shred of evidence that any wrong is being done.

Bollocks. Unless the father and child require 24 pallative care in the home, 90K plus freebies is a fcuking ridiculous figure. Utterly ridiculous. We have by far the highest welfare payments in the EU, if not the world. If a family of four can't do well out of 90K(plus freebies) a year then the world has gone fcuking mad. SHAME on you for suggesting otherwise.

Not everyone on welfare is a sponge,

No but shítloads are. I know many that are sponging as we speak. Getting the dole and working and taking home good enough money doing so. One I know got a big grant to set up a biz(that was doomed to fail and heads should have rolled there), she also got free premises in the deal. Then folded said company, got the dole(on testing she ended up with 300 quid a week), reopened said business on the quiet doing cash work and even has the gall to use the premises paid for by the tax payer. Yep that blatant and not a peep from any dept. You really couldn't make this shít up. I know others who have turned down work because the extra money the job would provide wasn't worth the loss of their entitlements overall.

bad enough that the officials in the separtment have that air to them without the general population stooping to the same lows.

Too many of us in the "general population" while knowing some genuine cases that should be supported, also know way too many spongers and chancers earning more than some people working for an honest days pay.

Wibbs

Oh and as for disability. I know too many chancers there too. A couple of "bad backs" and one guy who hasn't worked in nigh on a decade because he's got "severe agoraphobia". The same agoraphobia never stops him going to the pub three nights outa the week. He's got workaphobia more like. I'd add blame to the doctors diagnosing and signing off on this BS. I reckon with a shakeup of the various depts. and a reduction to actual sane levels of support we could shave off at least a third of our social welfare payments(if not more).

Chuck Stone

I think it should be noted that people will take advantage of such systems if they are there to be taken advantage of - it's a perfectly human thing to do.

It's the system itself which needs to be reformed rather than the people who are making the most of it.

Is there any joined up thinking at all in these departments?

seamus

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Is there any joined up thinking at all in these departments?

No, and this is a consistent problem across the entire public sector. They all maintain their own various databases on everyone and no thought is given to joining them all together to both reduce costs and provide better services.

There's no reason why you should ever have to provide a document from one state body to another. It should be a case that you give them a PPSN and that department has access to everything which is remotely relevant to their function.

Cross-connecting revenue and social welfare could quite literally save us billions on administration and fraud.

srsly78

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh and as for disability. I know too many chancers there too. A couple of "bad backs" and one guy who hasn't worked in nigh on a decade because he's got "severe agoraphobia". The same agoraphobia never stops him going to the pub three nights outa the week. He's got workaphobia more like. I'd add blame to the doctors diagnosing and signing off on this BS. I reckon with a shakeup of the various depts. and a reduction to actual sane levels of support we could shave off at least a third of our social welfare payments(if not more).

Feck. I could try the agoraphobia one but I work from home

sbsquarepants

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh and as for disability. I know too many chancers there too. A couple of "bad backs" and one guy who hasn't worked in nigh on a decade because he's got "severe agoraphobia". The same agoraphobia never stops him going to the pub three nights outa the week. He's got workaphobia more like. I'd add blame to the doctors diagnosing and signing off on this BS. I reckon with a shakeup of the various depts. and a reduction to actual sane levels of support we could shave off at least a third of our social welfare payments(if not more).

Absolutely, i've a pain in my arse with all these "leave that poor disabled man alone" bullshít responses. 90k tax free is way, way too much for any family on social welfare - i don't give a flying fúck what disability any of them have, since when is there sympathy payments on the dole! Their medical bills are completely seperate, this is 90k basically in cash, my cash and other taxpayers cash, and it IS a fúcking disgrace.
And before all the smart arse, "would you swap places with them" answers - no i wouldn't, but what the fúck has that got to do with the amount they get paid. The function of the social welfare system is to help people get by when they're down on their luck - not to keep them in luxury for the rest of their lives, regardless of whether they have bad backs, or gammy legs or whatever else they have.
This situation is absolutely ridiculous

El Weirdo

I'm sorry but at the moment all we've got is a Senator who's "heard from" some as yet unnamed people in the Dept. of Social Welfare that this is actually going on.

if someone had come on here and started a thread like this, we'd have all told them to provide a link to some proof or GTFO. And rightly fucking so.

This is classic trolling and you've all been sucked in.

sbsquarepants

El Weirdo wrote: »

This is classic trolling and you've all been sucked in.

Possibly. Time will tell i'm sure.
So preface all the answers with, "if this is true"
If it is true, then it's a fúcking disgrace

El Weirdo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Possibly. Time will tell i'm sure.
So preface all the answers with, "if this is true"
If it is true, then it's a fúcking disgrace

But even then, they've succeeded. Ask yourself a question: "what motivation is there for someone to leak this story?"

A bunch of disgruntled PS workers pissed off at the flak they've been receiving and worried about any possible cut-backs that might affect them in the next budget. They decide to let a sympathetic Senator know about "this family in Dublin" who are receiving 90k per year in benefits. No real evidence to back up all these figures but just enough to get Johnny PRSI Worker riled up enough to think that all the country's woes are down to people on benefits.

Takes the heat off the PS worker somewhat, doesn't it?

Just saying.

biko

If there is no link there is no truth.