Property boundry

amber2

Purchased our house in 2003 from a third party, the house originally belonged to the farmer who owns the sorrounding fields. He sold the house to an investor in or about 1999 who never lived in the house but sold it on to us in 2003. The boundries are very roughly marked there is a wall but this only marks part of our boundry. We recently decided to put up a permanent fence and employed an architect to mark out our bounds only to find out that the fence, which is an electric fence, has been moved in the farmers favour. Our maps show that we are out about 5 meters running down one side of our property. When we asked the architect his opinion he mentioned a 7 year rule but told us once we are in receipt of new maps to take it to a solicitor. In the mean time im just looking for some advice and also if anyone has any info on this 7 year rule not too sure but does the land revert back to the farmer if we were not aware it was ours in the first place. Since we moved in we have never tampered or moved any fencing. Thanks in advance.

nuac

12 years is the relevant time limit re recovery of title to land

knotknowbody

Yes 12 years usage without paying rent entitles the farmer to reclaim the land, however the rightful owner must be aware that the land is being used in the twelve year period by the claimant.

You should talk to the farmer explain to him/her that the fence is in the wrong place and that having being there a number of years you now wish to get the boundary fence made permanent and that you don't feel an electric fence is adequate, make sure you know where the fence should be and try to get him/her to agree, they probably know the fence is wrong so if they realise you also know they may agree, if not get a surveyor/architect to mark out the boundary and erect the fence marginally to your side they can't stop you as it will be on your property.

Try to do it by consent first though as you have to live beside them and it's always best to be on good terms with your neighbours.

i71jskz5xu42pb

knotknowbody wrote: »

Try to do it by consent first though as you have to live beside them and it's always best to be on good terms with your neighbours.

This is good advice. "the land" can be an emotive topic.

Victor

knotknowbody wrote: »

Yes 12 years usage without paying rent entitles the farmer to reclaim the land, however the rightful owner must be aware that the land is being used in the twelve year period by the claimant.

The owner doesn't need to be aware. Generally it is for the claiming party to have demonstrated that they possessed the land as if they were the owner and they excluded all others. The 12 year period doesn't apply to the state.

amber2

Thank you so much really appreciate the info. Have to say couldnt be on worse terms with the farmer well probably after this we will, but approaching them is not an option not too sure can we just plough ahead and have our architec who spotted the error mark where the fence should be or do we enlist a solicitor. Fence is meant to be going up in a few days but may just leave the bit in question till lást. Thanks again.

knotknowbody

amber2 wrote: »

Thank you so much really appreciate the info. Have to say couldnt be on worse terms with the farmer well probably after this we will, but approaching them is not an option not too sure can we just plough ahead and have our architec who spotted the error mark where the fence should be or do we enlist a solicitor. Fence is meant to be going up in a few days but may just leave the bit in question till lást. Thanks again.

I would get your architect to go speak to the farmer and tell them the fence is in the wrong place and that you are going to correct it, if they are not receptive to the architect then a letter from a solicitor would be in order just to try to minimise the "agro" when you put up the fence, you don't need to do either but it will look better to have done should it end up as a long dispute.

Victor wrote: »

The owner doesn't need to be aware. Generally it is for the claiming party to have demonstrated that they possessed the land as if they were the owner and they excluded all others. The 12 year period doesn't apply to the state.

Victor, up until 5 years ago i would have agreed with you, I also thought that the claiming party could just present evidence that they possessed the land as if the owner for twelve years and they would be granted ownership but that is not the case according to the advice my friend received, he was involved in a dispute and was informed that the owner needed to be aware his property was been used

The reason for this is that say for example somebody secured their property and went away to work, if they were unable to get home for many years they should expect their property to be there when they get back, however if they did not need to be aware their property was been used and they stayed away for more than twelve years then it could be gone when they come back, for this reason the claimant must prove the owner was aware of use and ignored it for whatever reason, personally I don't understand why, but that is the legal reality according to my friends legal advisors.

Like I said I held the same opinion as yourself until a few years ago and it makes more sense to me, but when your told something by a professional who deals with it on a regular basis you tend to believe them.

amber2

I was thinking of sending a letter by registered post advising that we would be erecting a fence on our side of the bounds and enclosing a copy of the maps we had drawn up. Would this suffice from a legal aspect.

Victor

amber2 wrote: »

I was thinking of sending a letter by registered post advising that we would be erecting a fence on our side of the bounds and enclosing a copy of the maps we had drawn up. Would this suffice from a legal aspect.

Ideally, you would use the original map from when the farmer sold the land.

amber2

Victor wrote: »

Ideally, you would use the original map from when the farmer sold the land.

. Architec is using a map which i gave him dated 1999 when the house was sold originally by the farmer its drawn up by the engineer he uses. We were given this when we bought the house. I also just bought the new digital map a few weeks ago. Thank for the advice everyone. Heres hoping ive everything covered.

amber2

Few more questions on this one in my letter to the farmer advising that we intend putting up a fence do i or should i put in a date for erection of the fence do i need to wait for a response from him, if so for how long.
After our new fence goes up his electric fence will be on our side do i request in my letter that he moves it as its not our property to move and don't want to risk damage to it.
Also we intend putting up a 6ft fence to the sides and rear of our property from what i can gather this is max. acceptable level by the council am i correct in this. Thanks again.

nuac

Even tho the relationship betgween you is bad, I would still recommend trying for a meeting rather than sending out letters thru regsitered post.

Try a meeting in a neutral venue.

amber2

I want to have something other than he said she said should this go legal i want to have something in writing to fall back on as conversations can be denied.

Victor

Thats what witnesses and memorandums are for.

EnufisEnuf

Suburbia - our gardens are marked by 40+ year old steel poles to mark the boundary. There are shrubs and hedges galore
We have contacted our neighbour to advise that we are erecting a wooden fence and they have informed us that we are not permitted by them to build it ON the boundary, we can only erect the fence up to the boundary remaining solely on our side......

They are citing horror stories from other neighbours with civil suits and unrest etc/

Do we NEED their permission to erect a wooden fence ON the boundary?
*the fence is one of those new fences seen often in new developments with concrete plinths at the bottom and a concrete pillar/post every 6ft of so.

slimjimmc

EnufisEnuf wrote: »

Suburbia - our gardens are marked by 40+ year old steel poles to mark the boundary. There are shrubs and hedges galore
We have contacted our neighbour to advise that we are erecting a wooden fence and they have informed us that we are not permitted by them to build it ON the boundary, we can only erect the fence up to the boundary remaining solely on our side......

They are citing horror stories from other neighbours with civil suits and unrest etc/

Do we NEED their permission to erect a wooden fence ON the boundary?
*the fence is one of those new fences seen often in new developments with concrete plinths at the bottom and a concrete pillar/post every 6ft of so.

If you build on the line then part of the fence will be on their side and you'll need their consent. Your neighbour is correct, imagine the boundary is marked by an extremely thin sheet of rigid plastic, you must keep everything (including overhangs) to your side of the sheet, and your neighbour must do likewise.

amber2

Not too sure if its any help but what we had intended doing was cutting back the concrete posts to the ground leaving part in the ground and giving a clear indication where the fence had been therefore no arguements in relation to us having gained ground, but as it stands all our fencing is totally on our land not really a boundary. Dont think you can touch a boundary withous permission as its partly yours neighbours too. May be worth your while getting maps though given the fact that someone somewhere moved our boundary. Went to a solicitor and we are now awaiting yet more maps.

EnufisEnuf

Hi ya

I'm fairly happy that the steel posts are geniune, plus we have a small boundary wall up at the house that the posts fall in line with.
I just dont see why anyone would object to a fence.. and i feel like a plonk putting up a fence when 2 inches on the opposite side are technically mine. I feel that in doing so I'm giving up that land... so if in future we decided to sell,,, our fence is MISTAKENLY marking a boundary that in effect isn't legal.

It just seems a bit feckin odd to me.

I'd have been tickled pink if they had approached me to erect a fence, even more so as if I agree to it on the boundary I have some say as to what kinda fence, how high etc.

Now I feel like putting up an illuminous pink fence with purple polka dots on the back ----so it's facing in their yard!!!

Now heres another issue...... we'll most likely have to disturb some of their hedging to erect this fence, even if we don't build ON the boundary... how do we fare there?

EnufisEnuf

I know I know....... let it go already.
BUT there is an old chicken wire fence in existance at present - can we argue that we are just replacing this?

Or do we still need their consent?

stephendevlin

EnufisEnuf wrote: »

Suburbia - our gardens are marked by 40+ year old steel poles to mark the boundary. There are shrubs and hedges galore
We have contacted our neighbour to advise that we are erecting a wooden fence and they have informed us that we are not permitted by them to build it ON the boundary, we can only erect the fence up to the boundary remaining solely on our side......

They are citing horror stories from other neighbours with civil suits and unrest etc/

Do we NEED their permission to erect a wooden fence ON the boundary?
*the fence is one of those new fences seen often in new developments with concrete plinths at the bottom and a concrete pillar/post every 6ft of so.

Technically because its a boundary both parties have to agree.
If you build your fence 6 inches onto your land they cant say boo

EnufisEnuf

Hey there, thanks for the advise.
BTW what is the 6 inches about. Surely I can build up to but not on the boundary... and they can do the same?

stephendevlin

EnufisEnuf wrote: »

Hey there, thanks for the advise.
BTW what is the 6 inches about. Surely I can build up to but not on the boundary... and they can do the same?

There will be no mistake that it's definitely your land invade a question arises 4 or 6 inches is definitely your land not that big of a loss

slimjimmc

EnufisEnuf wrote: »

Hey there, thanks for the advise.
BTW what is the 6 inches about. Surely I can build up to but not on the boundary... and they can do the same?

Correct, but make sure no part of your fence/wall/whatever crosses the boundary line, and by no part I mean anything below or above ground including any excavations for fence posts/foundations.

You also have to consider how the fence/wall will be constructed in case to need to access the fence/wall from your neighbours side. If the fence/wall is close to the boundary you may need your neighbours permission to enter their property. Even disturbing the soil on your neighbours side is something you may need to avoid unless you get permission.

Milk & Honey

stephendevlin wrote: »

Technically because its a boundary both parties have to agree.
If you build your fence 6 inches onto your land they cant say boo

They might not be able to say boo but they can cause plenty of hassle. Look at the definition of party wall below.
LAND AND CONVEYANCING LAW REFORM ACT 2009

"party structure" means any arch, ceiling, ditch, fence, floor, hedge, partition, shrub, tree, wall or other structure which horizontally, vertically or in any other way-

(a) divides adjoining and separately owned buildings, or

(b) is situated at or on or so close to the boundary line between adjoining and separately owned buildings or between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands that it is impossible or not reasonably practical to carry out works to the structure without access to the adjoining building or unbuilt-on land,

and includes any such structure which is-

(i) situated entirely in or on one of the adjoining buildings or unbuilt-on lands, or

(ii) straddles the boundary line between adjoining buildings or between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands and is either co-owned by their respective owners or subject to some division of ownership between them;