Differences between primary and secondary teaching

Chicke

I would love to be a teacher. I have a degree in business but am really intereted in primary school teaching.
What the practical differences in being a primary and secondary school teacher.I have a feeling that secondary school teaching is harder in terms of discipline and general atmosphere in school(one of my friends felt bullied by other teachers in a secondary school in terms of exclusion,sniggering,that type of thing and another friend is a primary school teacher and raves about the niceness of the teachers she works with)
Can anyone help on this?
Also ,which is harder to get subbing in. I can travel to any part of Dublin
Thanks

UnLuckyAgain

Chicke wrote: »

I would love to be a teacher. I have a degree in business but am really intereted in primary school teaching.
What the practical differences in being a primary and secondary school teacher.I have a feeling that secondary school teaching is harder in terms of discipline and general atmosphere in school(one of my friends felt bullied by other teachers in a secondary school in terms of exclusion,sniggering,that type of thing and another friend is a primary school teacher and raves about the niceness of the teachers she works with)
Can anyone help on this?
Also ,which is harder to get subbing in. I can travel to any part of Dublin
Thanks

Lots of questions - none with absolute answers to be honest.

First of all, business studies teachers in secondary schools are ridiculously common - there is even a cap on the amount of people who can apply for the PGDE as a business teacher because there are so many. So be warned that the market for secondary business teachers is so so tough.

Have you got honours Irish? You need this for primary teaching. You need to ask yourself whether you enjoy working with children, or young adults...that should be one of the main criteria.

In terms of discpline, I guess you could say secondary is a bit tougher (as students tend to be more opinionated, hormonal, lippy etc) but primary is a completely different ballgame.

Jobs are few and far between these days but there seems to be more opportunities in primary teaching compared to secondary. Like I said, there's no definite answer, it's completely a personal choice.

Chicke

Thanks a million. I have an a in honours Irish and i adore young kids.
On the other hand I am an accountant and thought maybe that might help if I do the secondary teaching?
Thanks again

UnLuckyAgain

Chicke wrote: »

Thanks a million. I have an a in honours Irish and i adore young kids.
On the other hand I am an accountant and thought maybe that might help if I do the secondary teaching?
Thanks again

It might help you get into the PGDE course - I think you are awarded extra points for relevant work experience.

Maybe try getting some work experience in a primary and secondary school - that might help you to make up your mind.

byhookorbycrook

Staffs vary so don't let one school staff put you off. Primary school staff may know each other better as the staff is smaller,as a broad generalisation.

I have taught both primary and secondary students but am in primary. Most primary teacher and secondary teachers would never trade one for the other.Discipline is an issue for any age group and a 1st class can be as unruly as a first year class.

I'd suggest you try for observation at both levels. "Adoring small kids" is all very well, but can you teach 30 of them to read- even the child who has no English ,the child with a family history of dyslexia as well as the child who has never seen a book before(yes, in this day and age!)I get on really well with small nieces and nephews as well as kids in the livery yard,but 30 + in one room would give me a different perspective.

carolyoc

are there really more job oppurtunities in primary? Im not a teacher so have no idea, im just surprised as i though it may be easier to find hours as a secondary teacher. I'm really interested in this aswell as I have been thinking for so long about primary teaching but recently thinking it makes more sense to teach science (biology and chem) as ive been working in the area for so long. I have to admit a fear of teenagers when i think of secondary and have a rosier view of a day in primary school, its a hard one

E.T.

Any primary jobs I've heard of lately have had around 500 applicants, so I don't agree that there's many job opportunities there at the moment!

I can't advise people strongly enough to go and see if you can observe/volunteer in a school if you think you're interested in teaching. It's a completely different job to the public perception, there's a lot more going on during the day, and more work to do after school or at home.

Nothing personal to anyone here, but I really hope that no school in the country will employ unqualified people anymore. The teaching unions have issued directions on this at last, so members are directed not to work with unqualified personnel. It was a ridiculous situation in the first place, but with the thousands of unemployed, fully qualified teachers in the country, employing unqualified people is completely wrong.

headmaster

I would say there is no chance whatsoever to go sit in a classroom and observe, etc. There are many, many, regulations in place to protect children, their privacy, their education, garda clearance and much, much more. Just because someone has degrees bursting out of their brief cases, doesn't mean anything when it comes to being able to impart knowledge to a young persons brain. It's a very professional and specialist career, not one that's possible to just jump into. I doubt a teacher could spend time in offices throughout the country observing peoples private papers, etc, then just become an accountant or similar. Likewise with teaching. Also, i doubt very much if teachers, or parents, would take too kindly to the suggestion, or vica-versa and rightly so.

Chicke

Of course there is no way that any unqualified person should be in front of young kids.likewise as no one without a business or science degree should be working in business or science.
That doesn't mean though that somebody with a degree in business or science cannot be an excellent teacher when trained.Which is what we are finding out about in this forum.
Are there new rules out on observation,that someone cannot sit at the back of a class to observe a teacher?
I must ring a few schools

carolyoc

I have found schools very open to allowing me some observation days, in the primary school I did observe in, all teachers seems happy to have me in the classroom and had me help out with reading and general classroom work. I don't think somebody who isn't qualified to teach should teach but don't see what the problem is with observation is, I did a couple of days and never felt in the way(except for in the staffroom!).

headmaster

I'd imagine you had a friend, or a contact, that allowed you to observe. However, don't you think it was very cheeky on your part, i notice the staff room wasn't too friendly. I wonder why? One thing's for sure, if it was me, i'd expect better from a so called friend and not a request to come into my workplace, because she/he is having job problems and would like a bit of whatever you're having yourself.

carolyoc

headmaster, indeed you are imagining, I had no contact or friend in the school, merely explained my interest in teaching and asked could I spend a few days in the school and was obliged. Also I am having no job problems, I just want to pursue a career I have wanted to do for a long time, you seem so opposed to people joining the profession or asking questions about joining the profession. I just mentioned observation days for the OP's attention as someone else had suggested it and I think it is a great way to see what a days teaching is really like.

afkasurfjunkie

i would have no problem with somebody coming into a school for a little bit of classroom observation once they have made contact with the principal and the teachers are aware of the situation and happy to accomodate, not all will as you can see from this thread.
back to the original question, i would imagine that at second level you are specialized in one or two subjects and teach them to various levels in the school be it up to junior cert or leaving cert. whereas in primary teaching you are much more a 'jack of all trades'. going from teaching musical literacy, to science to athletic skills to maths and english all in the space of a day.

rainbowtrout

headmaster wrote: »

I would say there is no chance whatsoever to go sit in a classroom and observe, etc. There are many, many, regulations in place to protect children, their privacy, their education, garda clearance and much, much more. Just because someone has degrees bursting out of their brief cases, doesn't mean anything when it comes to being able to impart knowledge to a young persons brain. It's a very professional and specialist career, not one that's possible to just jump into. I doubt a teacher could spend time in offices throughout the country observing peoples private papers, etc, then just become an accountant or similar. Likewise with teaching. Also, i doubt very much if teachers, or parents, would take too kindly to the suggestion, or vica-versa and rightly so.

Is this a wind up?

Sure, there are regulations in place to protect children, but there are people in and out of schools every day without children coming to any harm. The OP wants to observe in a school, and it is a regular occurrence in schools around the country. They will be sitting in the back of a classroom where there is a teacher present. I don't think any child is going to come to harm or be emotionally scarred by the their presence.

It is a professional career but if the OP applies for the PGDE like any other person with a relevant degree and has enough points they will be accepted. You are being really elitist here. The basic requirement to teach is a degree so what makes you think the OP is not suitable? The vast majority of people who become secondary teachers in this country do so by completing a degree and then the PGDE and not through a teacher training degree.

And people walk into all sorts of other industries every day to see what work is like, it's called work experience, something many of the TY and fifth year students do in my school every year, as I'm sure many others like them do.

OP - Contact your local schools, or even the schools you attended yourself. Explain what it is you want. Some schools will be amenable to your request and some will not.

byhookorbycrook

Provided the teacher is in the room and the observer is not left alone with the children, there should be no issue.