Sugar Beet Feasibility Studies

budhabob

Hi all,

I wasnt quite sure of the best forum to put this, but thought I'd chance here. I've done some searching and have seen the two reports mentioned, I just have no idea where to find them. Does anyone know where I might find the two studies mentioned in the report below.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0915/sugar.html
Thanks in advance,
Rob

johngalway

Can't help you with reports, but the Minister did mention them on Countrywide yesterday morning. You can listen back to it http://www.rte.ie/radio1/index.html

budhabob

johngalway wrote: »

Can't help you with reports, but the Minister did mention them on Countrywide yesterday morning. You can listen back to it http://www.rte.ie/radio1/index.html

Thanks for that, I'll listen to them now. Amazing they are so hard to find....for me anyway.

LostCovey

budhabob wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'll listen to them now. Amazing they are so hard to find....for me anyway.

I don't think they have been published.

The minister or his advisors may have seen them, but they might not be in the public domain yet.

It seems so logical to reverse that decision, which sounded mad at the time.

LC

budhabob

LostCovey wrote: »

I don't think they have been published.

The minister or his advisors may have seen them, but they might not be in the public domain yet.

It seems so logical to reverse that decision, which sounded mad at the time.

LC

Cheers for that. Presumably they will get published and presented in the public domain at some stage?

road_high

Read something in the papers a few weeks back about Lisheen mines site in Co. Tipperary being used as the potential new site for re-establising beet production.
What do people think? Pretty central I guess between the 3 main areas of past beet production i.e east Cork, Carlow/KK/Kildare/Laois area and Wexford. But while the crop was important in Tipp it was bigger in the other areas and that area of North Tipp has some tillage but not exactly synomous with it either. I still think Carlow general area would be better as it's beside the best beet land and still has a legacy of growing the crop. Thurles closed years ago.

delaval

Very interested in the beet issue as my father grew a lot of it remember fondly weeding on dry days and cleaning calf pens on wet days and when calf pens were all cleaned , weeding on wet and dry days!!
I am curious as to how this new plant will be financed?

blue5000

N. Tipp used to grow more beet when the Thurles factory was running up to the late 1980's. But transport to Carlow was too expensive so lot's of ppl opted out before Carlow and Mallow closed.

I think that rail transport might be an option with the Lisheen site?

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Very interested in the beet issue as my father grew a lot of it remember fondly weeding on dry days and cleaning calf pens on wet days and when calf pens were all cleaned , weeding on wet and dry days!!
I am curious as to how this new plant will be financed?

as far as I know you would be buying processing rights, Lisheen sounds good to me if the price is right I would supply even though I never supplied sugar beet in the past

road_high

blue5000 wrote: »

N. Tipp used to grow more beet when the Thurles factory was running up to the late 1980's. But transport to Carlow was too expensive so lot's of ppl opted out before Carlow and Mallow closed.

I think that rail transport might be an option with the Lisheen site?

Surely the opposite would now be the case...and even more so with the price of fuel almost double what it was back then. Surely then it makes most sense to place the factory as close as possible to where the majority of the crop can be best grown...that is Carlow area. Not in the middle of a bog!

20silkcut

road_high wrote: »

Surely the opposite would now be the case...and even more so with the price of fuel almost double what it was back then. Surely then it makes most sense to place the factory as close as possible to where the majority of the crop can be best grown...that is Carlow area. Not in the middle of a bog!

the advantage of lisheen is it's isolation from residential areas and it's excellent road infrastructure and proximity to rail and motorway networks.
Look at all the windmills around there no one objects because there are so few living there. A factory can make as much noise/smell/dust etc as it likes on that site. It is set back almost a mile from any road, as you say, in the middle of a bog. It is an hour from the Carlow beet growing region and an hour from the Cork beet growing region and in the middle of the Tipp/kk beet growing region, which in it's day churned out a fair chunk of the beet quota. I remember reeks of beet dumped on the roadside during the campaigns, with barely enough room left for a car to pass.

yellow50HX

not sure if lisheen mine would be the best place as nearly anyone from the traditional growing areas would have big transport costs.

I wonder how much room they need for the site? have heard of a few other places being mentioned. There was talk of a area in south KK near the conatiner port next to the rail line. would be very central to groing areas in kk, wexford carlow and wateford. having it next to a rail line would probably have to be a must, heard that the council in mitchelstown were lookign to have it in kilworth camp, next to the m8 yes but up on top of a hill nowhere near a rail line.

another option could be the amgen site near midleton. rail line on one side, n25 on the other. not that far from here and there used to be a huge amount of beet round, so id say there would be a fair few fellas that would be able to draw to it.

i'd say with transport costs only getting higher if the plant was big enough and there was a large enough supply it might make more since to have a single large plant with good rail links, and then have a seris of depots link the one there used to be in south wexford. this used to be case years ago. if there was a depot in east cork, another in north cork, one in wexford, carlow, kildare it might make it more attracive.

that said its all really conjecture and goverment policy would need to be changed to encourgre a groth in bio fuels and thats unlikely to happen. maybe if greencore get back into sugar refining they might be more inclined to push for it.

Conflats

The N tipp site has no sustainable water supply its looking to draw from an aquifer underground which in the whole light of this environmental sustainability lark makes no sense.

The catchment area is taking in a lot of big dairy regions and the pressure for land there wont be helped with beet too, 2015 is the year for quotas and 2016/17 for the proposed plant

A site in the south east is the makes the most sense down to the fact big beet areas are carlow south kildare and wexford why would you spend €350+ on a factory and put it in the wrong place??

Its great that an effort has being made to build this but as regards road links from carlow wexford etc what road is going to bring it? the most direct one is to bring it all through kilkenny and last time I travelled that way the roads to urlingford thurles direction wasnt that accomodating to a lot of tractors lorrys etc, the rail link suits only the people on the line and the south east growers would have to go down to waterford or upto kildare town turn around and go down the other rail line.....

It has a smell of parish pump politics off it. the only benefits it has over other sites is its not near an urban area.... the motorway benefit could be found anywhere along the M9

yellow50HX

Conflats wrote: »

The N tipp site has no sustainable water supply its looking to draw from an aquifer underground which in the whole light of this environmental sustainability lark makes no sense.

The catchment area is taking in a lot of big dairy regions and the pressure for land there wont be helped with beet too, 2015 is the year for quotas and 2016/17 for the proposed plant

A site in the south east is the makes the most sense down to the fact big beet areas are carlow south kildare and wexford why would you spend €350+ on a factory and put it in the wrong place??

Its great that an effort has being made to build this but as regards road links from carlow wexford etc what road is going to bring it? the most direct one is to bring it all through kilkenny and last time I travelled that way the roads to urlingford thurles direction wasnt that accomodating to a lot of tractors lorrys etc, the rail link suits only the people on the line and the south east growers would have to go down to waterford or upto kildare town turn around and go down the other rail line.....

It has a smell of parish pump politics off it. the only benefits it has over other sites is its not near an urban area.... the motorway benefit could be found anywhere along the M9

i thought there were loads of railways in the south east, we're fecked in cork as we only have one from midleton to the city and on to limerick juction, plus the train from kerry to mallow.

isnt there a train from limerick junction to roslare going through south tipp and waterford, one from rosslare up through wexford and up the coast to dublin and one from from waterford to kk, carlow, kildare and dublin, surly one along this line could be served well, now that there is a motorway from dublin to waterford.

delaval

lads there will be no factory if ye're fighting already.

It needs to be where the finished product can be moved most efficiently to the customer

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

lads there will be no factory if ye're fighting already.

It needs to be where the finished product can be moved most efficiently to the customer

I think they should put it in Tramore. All sorts of advantages to putting it there. It's a bit like the debate around proposals to have one drying plant between DG and Glanbia and more or less the same catchment. Somewhere in N.Tipp near the Dublin-Cork motorway would tick most of the boxes. There was plenty of beet grown in W.Waterford and E.Cork through the years.

Conflats

yellow50HX wrote: »

i thought there were loads of railways in the south east, we're fecked in cork as we only have one from midleton to the city and on to limerick juction, plus the train from kerry to mallow.

isnt there a train from limerick junction to roslare going through south tipp and waterford, one from rosslare up through wexford and up the coast to dublin and one from from waterford to kk, carlow, kildare and dublin, surly one along this line could be served well, now that there is a motorway from dublin to waterford.

Yes there is the beet train used to go to mallow along the line from wellington bridge to mallow

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

I think they should put it in Tramore. All sorts of advantages to putting it there. It's a bit like the debate around proposals to have one drying plant between DG and Glanbia and more or less the same catchment. Somewhere in N.Tipp near the Dublin-Cork motorway would tick most of the boxes. There was plenty of beet grown in W.Waterford and E.Cork through the years.

Tramore good idea and we could pull the beet in August:cool::cool:

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Tramore good idea and we could pull the beet in August:cool::cool:

Yeah lads could bring the wetsuits, hire the surfboards and queuing for the weighbridge would have a whole new diversion.

road_high

Conflats wrote: »

The N tipp site has no sustainable water supply its looking to draw from an aquifer underground which in the whole light of this environmental sustainability lark makes no sense.

The catchment area is taking in a lot of big dairy regions and the pressure for land there wont be helped with beet too, 2015 is the year for quotas and 2016/17 for the proposed plant

A site in the south east is the makes the most sense down to the fact big beet areas are carlow south kildare and wexford why would you spend €350+ on a factory and put it in the wrong place??

Its great that an effort has being made to build this but as regards road links from carlow wexford etc what road is going to bring it? the most direct one is to bring it all through kilkenny and last time I travelled that way the roads to urlingford thurles direction wasnt that accomodating to a lot of tractors lorrys etc, the rail link suits only the people on the line and the south east growers would have to go down to waterford or upto kildare town turn around and go down the other rail line.....

It has a smell of parish pump politics off it. the only benefits it has over other sites is its not near an urban area.... the motorway benefit could be found anywhere along the M9

I think so. Anywhere along the M9 corridor between KK and South Kildare i.e Carlow sited alongside the Barrow is the logical location in my view. Or Belview port at the end of it. It's central to all the best land which should be no. 1 consideration.
This will surely require large fresh water volumes for washing etc as did Carlow hence it was beside the Barrow. To site a plant away from a major water source and rely on an aquifer sounds nuts environmentally and economically. I assumed Lisheen was beside the river Suir or something.

The road access to Lisheen from these areas through Kilkenny is also woefully inadequate. To be viable in my view this has to be located in south Leinster. Plants like Tuam and Mallow were located in the wrong places (most likely for political reasons) so why repeat the same mistake 80 years later

bob charles

road_high wrote: »

I think so. Anywhere along the M9 corridor between KK and South Kildare i.e Carlow sited alongside the Barrow is the logical location in my view. Or Belview port at the end of it. It's central to all the best land which should be no. 1 consideration.
This will surely require large fresh water volumes for washing etc as did Carlow hence it was beside the Barrow. To site a plant away from a major water source and rely on an aquifer sounds nuts environmentally and economically. I assumed Lisheen was beside the river Suir or something.

The road access to Lisheen from these areas through Kilkenny is also woefully inadequate. To be viable in my view this has to be located in south Leinster. Plants like Tuam and Mallow were located in the wrong places (most likely for political reasons) so why repeat the same mistake 80 years later

I find it hard to see what was wrong with the location of Mallow

Any floaters on what price would be paid if it was say up and running at the moment?

road_high

bob charles wrote: »

I find it hard to see what was wrong with the location of Mallow

Any floaters on what price would be paid if it was say up and running at the moment?

Just a few miles west of Mallow and North also there is/was virtually no tillage. Was not as bad as Tuam or anything but somewhere in east Cork would have made more sense. History now anyhow, but I hope if they build again they takle everything into consideration and not just choose a place becuase it's cheaper etc.

grazeaway

road_high wrote: »

Just a few miles west of Mallow and North also there is/was virtually no tillage. Was not as bad as Tuam or anything but somewhere in east Cork would have made more sense. History now anyhow, but I hope if they build again they takle everything into consideration and not just choose a place becuase it's cheaper etc.

its a good bit more then a few miles. there is great land all along the blackwater valley and plenty of tillage ground north to the limerck border. yes east cork would have been a better spot but back then the main transport link was the railway (its only in teh last 20 years that teh road network has improved). it use to take an hour to go frm midleton to cork city its now 15 mins. similary the roads north to mallow and west to macroom and bandon were just as bad. mallow is on a cross roads with the railways from cork city (which included the links to east cork and also to south and west cork (loads of tillage down as far as clonikilty, dunmaway and macroom), and the kerry railway (yes there is tillage ground in kerry) and east to fermoy and into west waterford.

Tuam was also located on a main railway line running from limerck all the way up to donegal (was a big beet stronghold back in the day). while mayo and galway may not be renowned for tillage nowadays i know of plenty of people up there who used to say that the land was farmed that way for years. One of my former workmates was from around charlestown and used to work for a local contractor drawing beet to tuam in the 70's and 80's. he reckoned the sugar factory was the key to any tillage in the area.

Transport links has improved to an extent that one large plant could be served by the main producing areas.

I think glanbia were looking at locating their new drying plant just outside waterford city too on the banks of the barrow. i still reckon that is probably the best place to have the new factory, right next to railway to wexfrord and close to the n25 m9 junction. that is only about 80 miles from cork city and the road isnt too bad. plus you have the roads and railway south from kildare, dublin, laois, carlow and KK, and east from tipp and limerick

quietsailor

Another thing to think about when ye're talking about the plant location is that to help make it viable it needs other industries co-located next to it so waste products can be sold onto those factories;

• Waste heat can be used to heat a building
• Ethanol can be produced from waste beet
• Dried waste beet could be used in a biomass plant to create high pressure stem for electrical production/heat generation

20silkcut

The main thing is that the factory gets built. As long as the transport costs are not potentially extortionate it should cover as much of the country as possible. Remember counties like Laois/Offaly and east Galway etc can grow beet as well. The motorway network is the big game changer and allows much more flexibility as regards location. The further and wider the net can be cast and support gathered the greater the viability of the project.

It is absolutely incredible that this industry was sacrificed in this country and raises serious questions as to what sort of people we had become hoodwinked by the quick easy money and lured by the false promises of the property bubble. One good aspect of the recession is the dose of realism that has been injected back into Irish society.

This project should be a symbol of that realism.

newholland mad

Was at a few of the beet ireland meetings and the price being talked about was e40/t. I grew 50ac of beet and my father and grandfather also but at 40 euro i cant see a factory ever happening, and if it does i wont be part of it. When we last grew beet it was e55 and beet compound (which you use 10 cwt/acre) was in the low 200s now is circa 450, can was 200 now is 320.
On top of all that you have to buy your way in 30k-50k for a decent worthwhile tonnage so i dont think it will matter where they decide to build it growers with money to buy in could be scarce.

hughjohn

You're all dreamers. Its never going to happen folks.

6480

should never have been stopped the first day