Dog just bit my brother

BOHtox

I've a 4 year Rotweiler, Border Colly and Cocker Spainel cross-breed.
Today, it grab an inhaler and when my brother went to grab her collar to control her head so he could take it out of her mouth and she just snapped. She started growling and bit my brother's hand. This is only the second time she ever showed such aggression.
The first time she did it was two days ago. She grabbed a tissue or something and I did the same thing and so did she.
I wonder has this to do with a certain event. A few days before her first snap, there was a rat in the back garden. She was fighting the rat and eventually someone in the house had to go out and kill the rat with a golf club, the dog ran at the sight of the club.
Is there anything we can do?
I don't fancy being bitten but she's always been a pretty good dog and this is only the first real sign of this sort of behaviour.

All help is appreciated.

Cheers,

BOHtox

Cutie18Ireland

Most dogs wont like you taking anything out of their mouth. Trick is to replace it with something better. U offer a treat, they drop the item and then get the treat. Then replace it with the command "drop it" .

richymcdermott

A dog showing argression should not be tolerated or should be awarded, first thing is do not think about putting the dog down , that should always be the last resort but you should be the pack leader, you should always stand firm and correct your dog.

TooManyDogs

richymcdermott wrote: »

first thing is do not think about putting the dog down , that should always be the last resort but you should be the pack leader, you should always stand firm and correct your dog.

First thing to do is get in an expert to tell you exactly what is going on with your dog and how to change it. A behaviourist is the first person to contact.
Let us know where in the country you are and someone here should be able to recommend someone.

kylith

Cutie18Ireland wrote: »

Most dogs wont like you taking anything out of their mouth. Trick is to replace it with something better. U offer a treat, they drop the item and then get the treat. Then replace it with the command "drop it" .

+1. You need to teach a 'leave it' or 'drop it' command. If you let us know where you are done can recommend a good trainer.

carwash_2006

+1 on the training and getting a good trainer.

One thing that springs to mind though is could the dog have been bitten by the rat or injured in some way? If it is uncharacteristic I would be inclined to get a vet to check this out.

Also, as well as training "leave it" you need to desensitize the dog to having it's collar held. Start by just touching the collar in a non threatening way and rewarding the dog for not reacting. VERY gradually build this up to grabbing hold of the collar, always rewarding the dog for not reacting. It might be no harm in the meantime to put a small tag lead on the dog, basically a string attached to a clip about a foot long which you can grab to control the dog instead of the collar.

DamagedTrax

carwash_2006 wrote: »

One thing that springs to mind though is could the dog have been bitten by the rat or injured in some way? If it is uncharacteristic I would be inclined to get a vet to check this out.

my thoughts exactly. a well trained 4 year old rothi is a very dependable dog and wouldnt just turn like that. perhaps the rat got a bite in somewhere not obviously noticeable?

BOHtox

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm in Templeogue, Dublin 6W

With regards to being well trained;
I'm not going to defend that. I agree, a well trained dog would not do that. We got the Dog at the age of 5 weeks and the conditions in which she was brought up, before we got her, were not great. It seemed she was a dog that was bullied by the other dogs. Her bringing up with us has been quite good. She is often walked, sometimes Kilometres as we go up the mountains, and has human interaction 95% of the days. Around humans she usually runs up to them in excitement and jumps up. She then sits and offers the person her paw, that's the first two things I thought her to do. She has only growled a handful of times before and they were in clear defensive situations, like protecting a bone or possession.

TooManyDogs

Siobhan in Dublin Pet School is fantastic, she's always had the answers for me and I know has plenty of experience with dogs who have been aggressive. www.dublinpetschool.com

The Sweeper

It's all about the rat.

The thing with the rat - hunting, grabbing, shaking, that's a VERY stimulating thing for a dog. She was having a go at a rat, and she would have been in a VERY high drive place, revved up etc, and someone came out with a golfclub to intervene. As far as the dog is concerned, she was in very high prey drive and whoever had the club took her prey off her. In such high drive, to be driven away from her kill is a major deal for her. I'd say it's directly affecting her need to maintain absolute possession of whatever she has, hence she's going for people over apparently low-reward objects, like a tissue or an inhaler.

At the moment it's not the object, it's the notion of you trying to take something from her. You need to involve a behaviourist who can teach you how to retrain her so you can take things from her. It will take a little time as well - the rat incident is still very recent and it'll take at least a few weeks for her to relax.

DamagedTrax

BOHtox wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm in Templeogue, Dublin 6W

With regards to being well trained;
I'm not going to defend that. I agree, a well trained dog would not do that.

i wasnt for one second suggesting she wasnt well trained. this is a very recent occurance in her 4 years so she obviously is a well behaved dog

what i was saying was that there is obviously a reason for these incidents because she's well trained and they just came out of the blue.

Qualitymark

Four, five, six, seven - the real age that children get attacked by dogs. Young children are treated like pups; older kids aren't helpless pups, but also aren't adults, and the dog isn't sure about the status.

Definitely get a good trainer, who uses gentle, reward-based methods. But also bring the dog to the vet and get it checked out. Incidentally, was this just a snap, or did the dog's eyes glaze over? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome)

BOHtox

Qualitymark wrote: »

Definitely get a good trainer, who uses gentle, reward-based methods. But also bring the dog to the vet and get it checked out. Incidentally, was this just a snap, or did the dog's eyes glaze over? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome)

That doesn't really seem like it. It lasts about 1 minute. Although perhaps initially she feels threatened, after her outburst she'd seem almost guilty. I shouted at her after she did it and she lay down on the ground and had a really guilty look on her face. She then sat up and offered me her paw in a really friendly manner.
That part is similar.
I don't think her eyes freeze I think it's more an impulsive or spontaneous act.
My dog is also a fair bit older than the dogs in that example.

belongtojazz

I second toomanydgs recommendation of Siobhan from Dublin pet school, I had her here a couple of weeks ago as I was having issues with my dogs fighting.
Her advice has worked wonders for me

carwash_2006

BOHtox wrote: »

That doesn't really seem like it. It lasts about 1 minute. Although perhaps initially she feels threatened, after her outburst she'd seem almost guilty. I shouted at her after she did it and she lay down on the ground and had a really guilty look on her face. She then sat up and offered me her paw in a really friendly manner.
That part is similar.
I don't think her eyes freeze I think it's more an impulsive or spontaneous act.
My dog is also a fair bit older than the dogs in that example.

We have a terrible tendency to attribute guilt to dogs after they have misbehaved. The behaviour you observed is typical appeasement behaviour and will be displayed whether the dog has any idea of the fact that they did something wrong or what. The dog knows that you are angry and upset and displays appeasement behaviour in the hopes of calming you and asking you not to shout at them.

This issue isn't only about the level of training of the dog. It sounds to me that the dog has shown some low level of resource guarding all it's life which has not really been fully addressed. This may have been escalated by the incident with the rat, I would want to rule out any injury before I go assuming that she is being purely possessive, but the resource guarding needs to be addressed regardless now that you are aware of it.

Beware of dominance theories with this issue though as you could get into a lot of trouble if you follow some of the supposed cures subscribed to by people who subscribe to this method. Find a trainer, or preferably a behaviourist who will help you understand and put measures in place using reward based training.

BOHtox

BOHtox wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm in Templeogue, Dublin 6W

With regards to being well trained;
I'm not going to defend that. I agree, a well trained dog would not do that. We got the Dog at the age of 5 weeks and the conditions in which she was brought up, before we got her, were not great. It seemed she was a dog that was bullied by the other dogs. Her bringing up with us has been quite good. She is often walked, sometimes Kilometres as we go up the mountains, and has human interaction 95% of the days. Around humans she usually runs up to them in excitement and jumps up. She then sits and offers the person her paw, that's the first two things I thought her to do. She has only growled a handful of times before and they were in clear defensive situations, like protecting a bone or possession.

Just to clear something up here. I accidently wrote "weeks" but I meant months. She was around 5 MONTHS old. Sorry about that; I'm only reading my post now.
Does this change anything?
Thanks for the replies, everyone

DBB

Emmaline Duffy-Fallon is the only properly qualified dog behaviourist I know of who covers south Dublin. Her website is www.citizencanineireland.com.
As she is properly qualified, you won't hear her discuss dominance or rank in relation to why a dog is aggressive, whether its resource guarding or inter dog aggression or whatever. Instead, she will teach you the real reasons why your dog behaves like this, and therefore you'll get to the real root of the problem, rather than addressing non-existant "causes" such as dominance or not being the pack leader.
You'll also learn a lot about your dog that you never knew before! But definitely, this behaviour needs to be addressed. The good news is that resource guarding is a problem that's reasonably straightforward to address.
Good luck!

IvySlayer

Food aggression/possession aggressiveness is something that no owner should ever tolerate imo.

My dogs have learned the ''drop it'' and ''leave it'' commands since they were very, very young. It is the most important command you can teach a dog.

Retraining her may help with positive reinforcement, but if she's snapping you'd want to bring a specialist in.

Justask

Maybe if she has only done this twice in so many day shes not feeling to well. If she was mine i'd get her taken to a vet first before i'd take her to a trainer.

x Purple Pawprints x

Justask wrote: »

Maybe if she has only done this twice in so many day shes not feeling to well. If she was mine i'd get her taken to a vet first before i'd take her to a trainer.

Yeah I'd agree with this.. If a dog isn't feeling the best, behaviour changes are often a sign.

Whispered

I'd go with the make sure the dog isn't ill or injured approach first. If it's a new thing then the dog could be feeling unwell. Behaviour often stems from a physical thing.

But +1000000 in the post below. Emmaline is fantastic and the bit I've bolded is particularly important. You should never use dominance theory to teach a dog anything as it's a ridiculous concept in the first place, but to try it with a dog who is displaying resource guarding is a recipe for disaster.

DBB wrote: »

Emmaline Duffy-Fallon is the only properly qualified dog behaviourist I know of who covers south Dublin. Her website is www.citizencanineireland.com.
As she is properly qualified, you won't hear her discuss dominance or rank in relation to why a dog is aggressive, whether its resource guarding or inter dog aggression or whatever. Instead, she will teach you the real reasons why your dog behaves like this, and therefore you'll get to the real root of the problem, rather than addressing non-existant "causes" such as dominance or not being the pack leader.
You'll also learn a lot about your dog that you never knew before! But definitely, this behaviour needs to be addressed. The good news is that resource guarding is a problem that's reasonably straightforward to address.
Good luck!

1c1a

A dog showing aggression is a bad thing, a dog showing aggression towards it's owner is big trouble! An owner should have control of their dog at all times, I'd suggest what some of the previous posters have teaching your dog to drop something by using treats ONLY until the dog learns the command (if you give it a treat every time it picks up something it shouldn't your reinforces that bad behaviour is ok), failing this get some expert advise,and finally if there is a real issue of your safety or that of your family however small it may be I would suggest seriously considering having your dog put down. I doubt very much the rat issue had triggered your dogs behaviour.

BOHtox

So I reckon I'm going to get a trainer. I'm now going to decide which one.

Any other tips or opinions?
Everyone has been great so far. Keep it up!

Qualitymark

Just two tips:

1) Clicker training is the best method

2) Train your brother as well as the dog.

Clicker training (http://www.clickertraining.com/) isn't so much targeted at training the aggression out of the dog as in training the dog to respond to you. It's the method most commonly used by animal trainers, and was first developed for training dolphins.

When I say "train your brother as well as the dog", I mean train your whole family; everyone needs to be together on this. The situation you have now is not safe. If the child had been alone with the dog, it could have escalated into a tragedy.

I would also ask the vet to get neurological checks, to make sure the aggression is not neurological.

Edit: You should also bring the dog to the vet in case it's soreness that caused the snap; our dog gets quite antsy if anyone tries to groom her around her spine, and when the vet took X-rays we realised why: she has bad arthritis, and spurs of bone protruding from the spine and hips.