How to become a FETAC Tutor?

psychk

Hi all, Im wondering if anyone knows how to become a Fetac tutor. I have a few qualifications but my main one is a Bsc(hons) degree in Psychology. I would like to teach it either as a Fetac level 5 in a VEC or just as an introductary course for people with an interest in the subject. As far as I know all I need is a degree in the subject but I have recently heard that I need to have completed a train the trainer course too. Does anybody know if this is correct? I was hoping to hand in my CV to the local VEC(s) after I complete the train the trainer course and hopefully be able to teach it in the evening either in Jan or next Sept. Any advice would be appreciated!

gozunda

As far as I am aware most VECS look for some type of trainer qualification for Adult Ed courses. I believe they currently accept Train the Trainer / JEB qualifications + third level qualification in the area you are seeking to train but this standard is likely to be upgraded in 2013 or thereabouts..

Further Ed.

For VECs and any positions in the public sector eg secondary schools etc the criteria is established by the Teaching Council (www.teachingcouncil.ie) and that is a degree. From 2013 onwards the training qualification must be at a level higher than Level 6 so Train the Trainer, JEB Diploma etc will not be sufficient from 2013 onwards. FAS personnel will be transferred across to the VECs thus consolidating the FETAC provision in the public sector.

In terms of the private sector it is up to the provider - however there are plans to deal with Trainer qualifications under the new QA arrangments and requirements.

gozunda

Further Ed. wrote: »

For VECs and any positions in the public sector eg secondary schools etc the criteria is established by the Teaching Council (www.teachingcouncil.ie) and that is a degree. From 2013 onwards the training qualification must be at a level higher than Level 6 so Train the Trainer, JEB Diploma etc will not be sufficient from 2013 onwards. FAS personnel will be transferred across to the VECs thus consolidating the FETAC provision in the public sector.
In terms of the private sector it is up to the provider - however there are plans to deal with Trainer qualifications under the new QA arrangments and requirements.

I was talking to a FETAC trainer just this week. This is what I learned....

Currently some VEC appear to differ on qualifications required for Teacher qualifications versus Trainer qualifications

For Teacher read secondry level education

For Trainer read Adult Education Courses.

Some VEC's will still take trainers without a third level degree but with relevant experience and a trainer qualification (and not always even require that)

For the private sector and what are known as FAS second providers - it would appear to be a joke (These are the people teaching some of the FETAC accredited course btw) there are trainers who are training without any third level qualification or Trainer qualification or relevant experience who got their jobs in the good old days when second provider courses were purely designed as youth minding schemes...

As Further Ed said FAS have only recently got around to insisting that these trainers at least achieve a training qualification. That said it still means that these legacy trainers are training in areas where they have no specialised qualification or professional experience in the area they are training whatsover (ie cute whore trainers)

I was told that many of these "trainers" know didly squat about what they are teaching and cobble together courses for learners who are led to believe they are being trained by professionals....

looksee

Teachers in Further Education (which is different from secondary or adult) teach FETAC in PLC colleges. They are not called Trainers. At the moment there can be a wide range of teaching qualifications, from none, to Level 6, and through to the same teaching qualifications as secondary.

It will soon not be possible for teachers to enter Further Education teaching without a recognised teaching qualification, and many teachers within the system are currently studying to achieve qualification.

Would you prefer a qualified teacher who has learned woodwork as a 'subject' over a carpenter with many years practical experience, who had probably taught apprentices in his time? Ideally, it would be a combination of the two, but do not assume that just because someone does not have a teaching qualification they cannot teach. Though I do accept there has to (or at any rate, will) be regulation of the situation.

There is also a requirement for a degree, which is reasonable enough. But there are some subjects for which there is no degree, especially practical subjects. Is there no room for someone with years of practical experience in, say, bricklaying, someone with skills that can only be learned from doing work on the job?

As to 'cobbling together courses' FETAC teachers do in fact have to develop courses as the modules give outlines of the areas that must be covered, and the learning objectives that must be achieved, but within that the module can be taught as is appropriate to the course.

I cannot speak for FAS or Trainers, but be aware that FETAC does not mean poor quality courses in PLC colleges.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

Teachers in Further Education (which is different from secondary or adult) teach FETAC in PLC colleges. They are not called Trainers. At the moment there can be a wide range of teaching qualifications, from none, to Level 6, and through to the same teaching qualifications as secondary.

It will soon not be possible for teachers to enter Further Education teaching without a recognised teaching qualification, and many teachers within the system are currently studying to achieve qualification.

Would you prefer a qualified teacher who has learned woodwork as a 'subject' over a carpenter with many years practical experience, who had probably taught apprentices in his time? Ideally, it would be a combination of the two, but do not assume that just because someone does not have a teaching qualification they cannot teach. Though I do accept there has to (or at any rate, will) be regulation of the situation.

There is also a requirement for a degree, which is reasonable enough. But there are some subjects for which there is no degree, especially practical subjects. Is there no room for someone with years of practical experience in, say, bricklaying, someone with skills that can only be learned from doing work on the job?

As to 'cobbling together courses' FETAC teachers do in fact have to develop courses as the modules give outlines of the areas that must be covered, and the learning objectives that must be achieved, but within that the module can be taught as is appropriate to the course.

I cannot speak for FAS or Trainers, but be aware that FETAC does not mean poor quality courses in PLC colleges.

Looksee - I was not refering to either "Further Education" or PLC courses. I was referring to Adult Education especially some legacy FAS funded second providers. The FETAC trainer I talked to has been involved in this area and is both experienced and qualified. However he was aware of many Trainers within this system that had neither relevant subject experience, third level qualification or training qualification. The same "trainers" are not been got rid off rather they are being pushed through as "trainers" by taking the "Train the Trainer" qualifications.

bmarley

The foundation diploma in training and education (NUIG) is similar to train the trainer but is at level 7, so it may be better to do this to meet requirements in 2013

looksee

gozunda wrote: »

Looksee - I was not refering to either "Further Education" or PLC courses. I was referring to Adult Education especially some legacy FAS funded second providers. The FETAC trainer I talked to has been involved in this area and is both experienced and qualified. However he was aware of many Trainers within this system that had neither relevant subject experience, third level qualification or training qualification. The same "trainers" are not been got rid off rather they are being pushed through as "trainers" by taking the "Train the Trainer" qualifications.

Yes gozunda, I do appreciate that you were talking about FAS. Somewhere in my reply I rather lost the point I was making, which was not to argue with you, but to point out to people who may not be aware of it the difference that exists between Further Education, Adult Education, PLC, FAS, etc.

However it is fair to say that your information is second hand, not your personal experience, and the reference to 'many unqualified trainers' sounds like something that has grown with the telling.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

Yes gozunda, I do appreciate that you were talking about FAS. Somewhere in my reply I rather lost the point I was making, which was not to argue with you, but to point out to people who may not be aware of it the difference that exists between Further Education, Adult Education, PLC, FAS, etc. .

Granted

looksee wrote: »

However it is fair to say that your information is second hand, not your personal experience, and the reference to 'many unqualified trainers' sounds like something that has grown with the telling

Not so...I know and respect the person who discussed this matter with me. They have worked in this area at a high level for many years. I have not elaborated on what they told me. I have given it verbatim. The facts given is that there ARE many completly unqualified trainers within the legacy Edult Ed "second provider system" and unfortunately it looks like FAS is attempting to bodge a fix rather than employing qualified personnel....

Further Ed.

Re unqualified trainers with FAS, there are two possible outcomes;

1. If they are direct employees of FAS following the transfer of FAS employees to the VEC under the establishment of SOLAS and abolition of FAS then they will be subject to the requirements of the VECs ie Teaching Council registration, requirement for a degree and a Training qualification or meeting the criteria as per a DOES circular letter etc. No doubt they will be given some time to meet these requirements just like many in the VEC sector have.

2. If they are employees of private providers that have won contracts awarded by FAS then they will be dealt with under the new FETAC QA process surrounding the qualifications of the Trainers and Programme Approval.

However with the amalgamation of FAS and the VECs there will be very little room left for contracts to be awarded to private providers ands hence the qualification of Trainers will be dealt with in a brutal marketplace manner.

gozunda

Further Ed. wrote: »

Re unqualified trainers with FAS, there are two possible outcomes;

1. If they are direct employees of FAS following the transfer of FAS employees to the VEC under the establishment of SOLAS and abolition of FAS then they will be subject to the requirements of the VECs ie Teaching Council registration, requirement for a degree and a Training qualification or meeting the criteria as per a DOES circular letter etc. No doubt they will be given some time to meet these requirements just like many in the VEC sector have.

2. If they are employees of private providers that have won contracts awarded by FAS then they will be dealt with under the new FETAC QA process surrounding the qualifications of the Trainers and Programme Approval.

However with the amalgamation of FAS and the VECs there will be very little room left for contracts to be awarded to private providers ands hence the qualification of Trainers will be dealt with in a brutal marketplace manner.

FE

To clarify the FETAC trainer I talked to rererred specifically to community based FAS Funded schemes. These trainers (although not FAS employees) have been employed under contract for an extended period of time. The staff in these schemes were contarcted at a time when training qualifications were not required. These contracts are of long standing and unfortunately not easily got rid of. FAS method of attempting to bridge this is to send these staff on Train the Trainer Level 6 courses. However theyl continue to be incompetently qualified not having industry / specialist experience or having any third level qualification as per established standards.

Further Ed.

Then it would appear that they will face the same requirements that those in the FE sector who did not hold a degree faced ie in terms of meeting the requirements of the Teaching Council and get qualified. The Teaching Council is a statutory body. Many FE teachers have spent the last few years studying in order to keep their jobs. Big changes ahead with all moving to employment under the VECs.

gozunda

Further Ed. wrote: »

Then it would appear that they will face the same requirements that those in the FE sector who did not hold a degree faced ie in terms of meeting the requirements of the Teaching Council and get qualified. The Teaching Council is a statutory body. Many FE teachers have spent the last few years studying in order to keep their jobs. Big changes ahead with all moving to employment under the VECs.

Problem is that at the moment that trainers in this sector are undertaking Train the trainer certification without any requirement to have any other qualification or relevent experience in the area being taught...

looksee

gozunda wrote: »

Problem is that at the moment that trainers in this sector are undertaking Train the trainer certification without any requirement to have any other qualification or relevent experience in the area being taught...

You do find, not entirely surprisingly, that people who are qualified in an area tend to be rather bitter and vociferous about people they regard as not being qualified. While I would not be surprised at some dubiously qualified people in FAS, given its history, at the same time I think maybe the lack of relevant experience thing is being painted with rather a large brush.

MOSSAD

It's probably fair to say that someone unqualified as a tutor in quite possibly has the coalface experience to make the subject more relevant and to the point. However one also needs to have the facility to impart the knowledge correctly.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

You do find, not entirely surprisingly, that people who are qualified in an area tend to be rather bitter and vociferous about people they regard as not being qualified. While I would not be surprised at some dubiously qualified people in FAS, given its history, at the same time I think maybe the lack of relevant experience thing is being painted with rather a large brush.

No dont think so....it appears to be the only area where an exception is being allowed....Its not that they are just unqualified - they have no experience, practical or otherwise and are training it to certification standard ...I wouldn't like anyone I know to end up training under such a scenario

Outing stupidity / inequality in a system isnt being bitter btw....

psychk

Ok so after reading the debate sparked by my original question I now wonder if its worth doing a train the trainer course so that I can apply to teach Psychology(which I have an hons degree in) as a FETAC course in a VEC. It seems that after a year Ill need to actually be a teacher or something? Any more advice!
Thanks

Further Ed.

Reading back over the posts it seems that the problem and concerns raised centred on Trainers not employed by the VEC or directly by FAS. Do remember alot of the FAS courses have been delivered by private providers who did not require the same qualifications as the VECs. There will be less and less contracts awarded by FAS to the private providers especially when the FAS training element comes under the wing of the VECs. The establishment of SOLAS and the changes it will bring about is going to mean major changes for the provision of FETAC courses (and of course FETAC itself is joining with HETAC, NQAI etc) and there will be a harshed requirement re Trainer and Tutor qualifications when all that settles down.

Just a few comments for psychk;
1. Train the Trainer is not really accepted by VECs as the only training qualification to teach at level 5 standard in full-time daytime courses.
2. If you are planning a long-term career in teaching FETAC Level 5 you will need to be able to teach other modules as well. The FE sector is facing exactly same problems as the secondary school sector and so are its teachers/trainers in terms of offering several subjects etc.

looksee

It might be better to approach it from another angle. First check out the websites of all the colleges in your area and see how many of them have evening classes.

Then send in your CV and follow up by contacting the evening course director and ask if there is likely to be any vacancy for a psychology teacher and what teaching qualification you would need. If they have qualified teachers to teach psychology readily available from, say, within the college, you are not very likely to get in. They might say that if you get the TtT course they will keep you listed.

If they really need someone they might contact you and be willing to employ you while asking you to get a teaching qualification. The colleges are not allowed to spend Department of Education funding on teachers who are not fully qualified, but evening classes are self funding and the director may use discretion.

psychk

Thanks, Im only hoping to teach the course part time like a morning or evening so would you reckon its still a good idea to do train the trainer with this in mind?!

gozunda

psychk wrote: »

Thanks, Im only hoping to teach the course part time like a morning or evening so would you reckon its still a good idea to do train the trainer with this in mind?!

It certainly wont hurt and for uncertified evening type classes may be a good one to start with...

bmarley

A private firm are currently recruiting tutors (throughout the country)to deliver fetac 5 childcare, communications, health care etc courses on behalf of fas. They seemed to be more impressed with the fact that I have a JEB qualification, than that I had a post graduate diploma in the relevant area.

raver85

Hi all

I have a degree in tourism and 6 years experience and looking at becoming a tutor in tourism in either a VEC or PLC, I have been told that if i register with the teachers council of ireland, and fill out some more forms I am then registered and can apply for positions from there?

If anyone has more detailed information, I would really appreciate it!

cheers!

implausible

raver85 wrote: »

I have a degree in tourism and 6 years experience and looking at becoming a tutor in tourism in either a VEC or PLC, I have been told that if i register with the teachers council of ireland, and fill out some more forms I am then registered and can apply for positions from there?

In order to register with the Teaching Council now, you have to have a teaching qualification.

In a stand-alone Further Education college, with something as specific as Tourism, you might have a chance of getting some hours. However, the system is changing and very soon, ALL tutors will be required to have specific qualifications in further education.

Chris68

implausible wrote: »

In order to register with the Teaching Council now, you have to have a teaching qualification.

Not true. With a degree you can register today under section 5 to teach in Further Education. If you get registered before April 2013 then you can stay registered just by keeping your subscription uptodate. If you don't register before that date then you will need a teaching qualification to get registered .

psychk

This is very helpfull, how do you register under section 5?

Chris68

psychk wrote: »

This is very helpfull, how do you register under section 5?

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/applying-to-register/further-education.496.html

implausible

Chris68 wrote: »

Not true. With a degree you can register today under section 5 to teach in Further Education. If you get registered before April 2013 then you can stay registered just by keeping your subscription uptodate. If you don't register before that date then you will need a teaching qualification to get registered .

Apologies, I thought the date was this year:o

enoughalready

Any updated info on this folks?

katydid

looksee wrote: »

Teachers in Further Education (which is different from secondary or adult) teach FETAC in PLC colleges. They are not called Trainers. At the moment there can be a wide range of teaching qualifications, from none, to Level 6, and through to the same teaching qualifications as secondary.

It will soon not be possible for teachers to enter Further Education teaching without a recognised teaching qualification, and many teachers within the system are currently studying to achieve qualification.

.

It's actually not that straightforward. Increasingly, "trainers", many of whom are fully qualified teachers with third level qualifications and a teaching qualification, are being employed by ETB's. Because they are classified as "trainers" they are paid half of what teachers are paid, and their terms and conditions are far worse. If courses include one subject for which a fully qualified teacher can't be found...let's say it has a subject like lace making - then the whole course becomes considered a course where each module can be covered by "trainers".

A dangerous road.