A tale of caution

Homer

Following on from a thread on TZ UK in relation to a poster who purchased an Omega PO on ebay recently, here are some pics that genuinely would have had me fooled. The buyer even met face to face with the seller and brought the watch to an AD to have links removed and on three separate occasions they didn't spot it was not genuine.

Here are the pics.. Honest feedback please as to whether this would have fooled you!!

Marcusm

Mine's a 45.5 but the teeth on the bezel are much sharper on mine - in the photo they seem to have been smoothed out which couldn't come from wear based on the date on the guarantee card. The white card wallet also looks wrong.

Reloc8

Truthfully, the bezel edge and the quality of the printing on the bezel look off. The proportions of the arrow on the minute hand are also wrong - too big relative to indices.

That said, if it was put in front of me with the paperwork, assuming generally good quality material and finish, I probably wouldn't pick it out as a wrong 'un.

Smokeyskelton

Marcusm wrote: »

Mine's a 45.5 but the teeth on the bezel are much sharper on mine.

The watch pictured is the 42mm version (or a fake thereof). The bezel "teeth" on the 42mm are very different to the larger version for some reason. They look pretty much identical to this fake (to my eye).

I'm not an expert, but I think it would be very hard to spot this fake. The only way I would have spotted it is that I would have googled the serial number if I was interested in buying - it comes up as a fake if you google it.

I saw the thread on TZ as well, and it seems most posters were amazed at the quality of this particular fake. Scary stuff indeed! :eek:

marcus1971

This is most an likely an out of the box 4th generation PO rep with the only modification being a genuine Omega bezel/insert, the 5th generation is actually less accurate to gen but most accurate in 45mm form (UPO...U being for ultimate)

Most parts are interchangeable with gen such as bezel assy., bracelet, dial, hands, crown, tube etc. etc.,

The AR coating on this one is double sided but far too purple to be genuine Omega.... Owners of replicas with double coated ar crystals usually polish off the outer ar coating as the replica coaing is nowhere near as durable as genuine....although there are aftermarket services out there where you can get your crystal AR coated, I've seen them and they are actually better than gen, usually costs between $50 and $100 - so its not a universal tell.

If you look very carefully at the datewheel in pics 2,4 and 5 you might notice that the datewheel is recessed to the date window, it sits far too low in relation to the dial....this is a common tell with all unmodded replica POs.

The bezel looks like a genuine Omega bezel, the lume pip on the reps is nowhere near as good as the one here.

The crown however is a replica its taller and more squared than genuine, has no taper on the ends and they all suffer from weak threading on the tube, most strip within weeks...thats probably why its not screwed home fully in the 9th pic...All PO reps however will accept gen crown and tube and this is a very cheap mod.

If you look closely in pic 4 you will see the Omega logo has "happy feet", the ends of the omega symbol curl up instead of being flat on the ends, this is easily fixed by removing the logo from the dial and snipping the tail from the feet with a nail clippers and reattaching the logo with some epoxy on the underside of the dial so this is not a universal tell, some editions of the replcas got the logo right

In the 7th pic you can see where the last link to clasp on the right of the pic isn't machined properly - so the bracelet is standard replica...this one uses a pin and collar system identical to Omega but some use screws on the removeable links.

In the 9th pic if you look at the etched logo on the caseback, while it is accurate to gen it is laser engraved and nowhere near as deeply engraved as a genuine caseback.

The movement is run of the mill 28800 asian eta clone, nothing special but will keep time as well as the eta its based on as well as being almost 100% compatible with eta components but looks nothing even close in finish to an Omega movement and anyone who has ever opened the back of a modern Omega watch would know this in a split second

And if you think this one is a good replica you would want to see some of the others, this PO to be honest is fairly mediocre as far as some of the out of the box replicas go nowadays, these watches are nothing like the junk they sell on the beach in the Canary Islands, these are true replicas.

And for the life of me I have no idea what the complete obsession everyone seems to have with watches coming in a box with papers.....You can buy them on eBay every single day for $50, I can almost guarantee that if this didnt come with a box and papers the fool who bought it would have passed it by...BOXES & PAPERS MEAN NOTHING, infact boxes and papers included are probably one of the best ways to pass a fake on to an unsuspecting punter, I'll bet more fakes were sold on eBay with boxes and papers than without, give up the obsession with the boxes and papers - I'm convinced it makes punters take the eye off the ball when they see the Omega box and cards....the papers are the only gen thing about this watch - MAYBE, they make rep boxes and papers for most brands too, yours for $50, again BOXES AND PAPERS MEANS NOTHING
(I feel very strongly about this )

You gotta do your homework with the quality of the reps nowadays, study the pics and know what to be looking for....I wouldn't part with a cent for a watch no matter how cheap or how good the source until I had studied the fakes, found out the tells, examined the watch in detail and studied the pics over and over again, this is NOT a good replica, its really just a standard $250 rep and whatever AD failed to spot this as a fake should lose his franchise...If this was in my hand I would know it was a fake in seconds, and I have never even seen a PO other than in a shop window, these guys handle these same watches day in day out and the PO has been around for years now....no excuse whatsoever.

I would never rely on staff at ADs to spot fakes, as much as its a good idea to have an AD check for authenticity a lot of them are not nearly as knowledgeable as you would expect them to be, I have noticed on lots of threads across dozens of watch fora that folks seem to consider staff at an AD as the be all and end all for their particular brand, when in truth all they are usually concerned with is selling a piece of jewellery and getting a commission, a lot of the time they don't know what they are selling never mind being able to tell a real one from a fake one.

I had a Rolex Daytona many years ago that I wasn't 100% sure about, I brought it to an AD, a respected watchmaker, a pawn shop, 3 or 4 jewellers and not one of them could say for sure or not wheather it was genuine or fake, it did turn out to be the real deal and to find this out for sure I had it appraised in the UK where the AD took the details from the movement, the serial # between the lugs, faxed Rolex HQ and 3 days later called me with the good news.....and didn't charge me a single penny for his trouble.

Edit: Just read that post on TZ and it appears the boxes etc are fake too, I'll stand by the bezel insert being gen.....or the lume pip at least, the op also stated that the Omega logo is correct but in the pics it is as clear as day that the Omega symbol/logo has "feet" that turn up at the end NOT the correct flat ended logo, he may be confused because older Omegas had the "happy feet" logo it was only in recent years with the more modern watches that they changed it to the flat footed version. And there are plenty of reps available with rotating serial numbers - in fact with the more expesnsive ones you can even specify your own individualised serial number.
I am really amazed how clueless almost everyone there is as to the quality of the fakes that are available, if they couldnt tell this one from fake they should stick to buying from authorised dealers only.

marcus1971

Heres another fella who has sold 2 so far that can be accounted for and removed one and is using the same appraisal for all of them, looks like he is picking up at least 5k a week on the Planet Oceans alone and states there is still a GMT to come, god knows how many other accounts he might have selling different brands, comes with boxes and papers too

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f441/fake-pos-abound-ebay-587821.html

Heres the message he returned to me after I gently informed him his watch as listed was a fake:

"no sir this is not a fake this watch was bought from a US Marshalls seized property . they gurantee the appraisal and watch i do have a letter from the marshalls also but i didnt feel the need to put it in their and the other reason i sold just one last week with the black bezel also bought with them no problems and iam going to put up another one thats seamaster gmt so dont go by the serial number thats baloney if you look at the helium escape it should be a tad above the 10 oclock and the reason i know this is because i have seen some fakes and its always the case the helium escape valve is centered right abovr the 10 which is wrong this is the tell tale sign of a fake and if you can see this in the pics its a tad above the 10 . and i dont believe the marshalls service would go to this lenths to sell a fake . you do your homework sir and please dont bid on this item"

There you go, if you have a problem take it up with the US Marshalls.

Bullseye1

It really is scary that they are Producing such high quality fakes. If the ADs cannot see the difference what is to stop people trading them against genuine watches in ADs?

marcus1971

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It really is scary that they are Producing such high quality fakes. If the ADs cannot see the difference what is to stop people trading them against genuine watches in ADs?

The thing is , none of the watches listed so far in this thread are high quality fakes...they are all only average - what they call "out of the box replicas"... the better and more expensive replicas are not usually of a watch like the PO, because its not worth it for the rep factories making a $600 replica of a $2k watch ...the out of box replicas are fitted with gen bezels, gen hands, gen crown and tube, gen dial OR a relume and an aftermarket AR treatment, what you have then is a $500ish franken replica that will, until opened, fool anyone, including any AD.

The newer coaxial Omegas have a very distinctive movement, even for a complete novice to ID, its when you get into the brands that only use tarted up standard eta movements that IDing them starts to become very very difficult or the older pre coaxial Omegas like the first gen Bond Seamaster...and because a lot of people are cashing in their gold watches, that are subsequently melted down as scrap there are lots and lots of genuine dials/hands/movements for most boutique style watches that don't hold their value as well as Omegas or Rolex

Bullseye1

To be perfectly honest even though I own a PO I'm no expert. If I was to walk into an AD and this was put in front of me I'd find it hard to see the difference. It just shows you have to buy the buyer.

In saying that someone posted on TZ that a well respected member tried to flog some fakes.

marcus1971

Another one to watch out for are the Sinns, there have been a few of these popping up on eBay lately, they don't grab as much attention as the Omegas or Rolex so I reckon more of them are probably slipping under the radar.....



I can't seem to be able to post the pic full size, its only going up at about 1/3 of the original so its harder to see the differences, the things to look out for are:

Red bezel markings are thicker, deeper and more glossy on the genuine watch.

No gasket visible on the crown

Datewheel font is larger and thicker on the replica

Markings are missing on the removeable segments on the underside of the strap

Scallops on bezel of genuine watch are not as long but are more defined on the genuine watch

the "EDELSTAHL" marking on the genuine one is deeply engraved while the replica is only laser engraved and nowhere near as deep as the real one

Other than that there are differences in curvature of the case, exact dimensions, but these are too minute to be spotted without side by side pictures

There are slight differences in the tone of the black dial and the red dial print but this is hard to rely on as black and red are two of the colours that will fade most when exosed to sunlight, so a genuine watch might actually be exactly the same after a couple of years wear,

The AR on the Replica is actually better than the Real one in these pics.

peasant

From the sublime to the ridiculous

Loking at this, at first glance you'd think that you're getting a cheapo Russian "hommage" of something vaguely Omega-ish



The "Slava Seamaster", complete with cyrillic writing on the dial and caseback
http://www.ebay.de/itm/OROLOGIO-AUTOMATICO-RUSSO-SLAVA-SEAMASTER-/260859137292?pt=Orologi_da_Polso&hash=item3cbc6a8d0c

It clearly is no "seamaster" ...but what makes it ridiculous is that it ain't no Slava either ...this thing is Chinese

There is a whole rake of Chinese Cjiaba watches out there, trying to look like Russian Cnaba ...why?? ...nobody knows ...but a Chinese copy of a Russian watch trying to look Swiss ...that really takes the biscquit.

flutered

the next move from the chinese will be to clone the clones.