Interesting piece on Kimi

thegoth

http://www.stuartcodling.com/2011/09/what-next-for-kimi-raikkonen/

ottostreet

There are some inaccuracies in that article, in that Kimi has not said he is not willing to pay for his own WRC campaign. He also has been finishing higher than the back end of the top ten, averaging between 5th and 8th place. For only his second year in WRC, his improvement has been phenomonal.

I watched a couple of Youtube videos of Kimi driving in 2002 and 2003 and 2004, and the visual difference is stunning, he is visually pushing like crazy at every corner. Ferrari seemed to kill off the fast, aggressive, instinctive driver that Kimi was, due to their notorious team politics. Look at Felipe Massa now, a broken driver who was highly rated only two years ago. All because he is not the 'in favour' guy at Ferrari.

I hope that Kimi doesn't waste the ridiculous amounts of talent he has available to him. He is about to turn 32, and could easily have 5 years in F1 again if he wanted to. I think he has unfinished business in the sport, and I hope to God he comes back, even though Turan Sanomat are reporting today that he is not planning F1 for 2012.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

F1 doesnt need him back at all, his lazy dont care attitude doesnt deserve a drive in F1.

Ala Schumacher return ?


Would prefer to see Kimi in his seat

ottostreet

The strange thing is that no team has ever had anything bad to say about Kimi's work ethic or attitude. If Alonso hadn't been coming with a shedload of Santander money, I don't believe they would have gotten rid of Kimi.

This time last year, his stock was still high enough to get a drive at pretty much any team, but if he doesnt return now, he will just fade away, as a driver who never fulfilled his potential. Doesn't mean I won't stop rating him as one of the most talented and exciting F1 drivers I've ever seen racing though.

thegoth

Even though I posted the article I cant say I agree nor disagree with it as I dont follow WRC at all. Thought it was an interesting opinion piece though.

What I will say though is that Kimi was out performed by Massa for 18 months before he left F1. This is just a fact. Maybe his reactions dulled slightly as he reached his 30's. Its a fact of life that this happens. Since he realised so much on his reactions, maybe this was the reason for Massa beating him and could be the reason he maybe past his best ? I dont know the answer.

Dont get me wrong. I would love to see Kimi back. Now what team and with what teammate. Ideally, with Lotus Renault along with but Kubica, but since Kubica would be coming back from a year off and having had his hand virtually cut off him and reattached, you could not compare performances as you have two unknowns. So I think Toro Rosso, with either driver as a team mate, but this will not happen as they already have 3 drivers and will not pay Kimi the salary he would want. Any other team I can think of can either not afford him , have driver contracts in place for next year, or have three drivers already on their books looking for 2 seats. Williams would seem like his best chance consider all the above but I suspect he would need to bring sponsorship to cover all but a few million of his salary

muckwarrior

ottostreet wrote: »

Look at Felipe Massa now, a broken driver who was highly rated only two years ago. All because he is not the 'in favour' guy at Ferrari.

Or perhaps because he's simply not as good as Alonso.

ottostreet

thegoth wrote: »

Even though I posted the article I cant say I agree nor disagree with it as I dont follow WRC at all. Thought it was an interesting opinion piece though.

What I will say though is that Kimi was out performed by Massa for 18 months before he left F1. This is just a fact. Maybe his reactions dulled slightly as he reached his 30's. Its a fact of life that this happens. Since he realised so much on his reactions, maybe this was the reason for Massa beating him and could be the reason he maybe past his best ? I dont know the answer.

Dont get me wrong. I would love to see Kimi back. Now what team and with what teammate. Ideally, with Lotus Renault along with but Kubica, but since Kubica would be coming back from a year off and having had his hand virtually cut off him and reattached, you could not compare performances as you have two unknowns. So I think Toro Rosso, with either driver as a team mate, but this will not happen as they already have 3 drivers and will not pay Kimi the salary he would want. Any other team I can think of can either not afford him , have driver contracts in place for next year, or have three drivers already on their books looking for 2 seats. Williams would seem like his best chance consider all the above but I suspect he would need to bring sponsorship to cover all but a few million of his salary

During 2008, Kimi made it clear to the press/public that he was not happy with the direction that Ferrari had gone with the F2008. In particular, he was not happy with the brakes. Kimi started 2008 very well, but after he dominated the French Grand Prix, only to have his exhaust fly off and finish 2nd, and then crashed into by Hamilton at the Canadian Grand Prix, the fire went out of his belly, mistakes crept in, and Kimi didnt look comfortable. In 2009, things were much the same, but a little bit more evenly matched. However, once Massa's accident occured, and Kimi was on his own effectively, he suddenly went from fighting 4th-6th places, to fighting 1st-3rd, including that infamous win at Spa. I think there was inter-team politics at play, and Kimi just simply doesn't know how to handle it.

muckwarrior wrote: »

Or perhaps because he's simply not as good as Alonso.

Nope, I don't believe he is. I believe he is as fast as Alonso, but not as good overall. However, Massa is a confidence driver. If he is confident, and fels secure and happy, he thrives. Start playing mind games, and he suffers. He never had to put up with mind games from Kimi, as Kimi is notorious for not saying anything! I don't remember a single controversy between Kimi & Massa, a single cross word, or any sort of 'getting in each others heads'. Kimi did his own thing, and Felipe was also free to do his own thing, a situation that he thrives in. However, that is not the situation with Alonso. Massa probably feels a little indebted to Ferrari because of his accident, and that immediately puts him on the back foot. Germany 2010 then, destroyed him.

He reminds me of Fisichella in a way. A great driver when he's happy and settled, rubbish when he doubts himself even slightly. He's not going to recover his mojo while at Ferrari.

amacachi

It's important to remember just how bad Ferrari's 2009 car actually was. Look what happened to Fisichella when he jumped into it from the Force India. Personally I think he was mental to leave as he may well have had a shot at winning his home GP with Force India. Also in 2008 Raikkonen was well up there til Canada when the wind seemed to be taken out of his sails and that was it.

Still, I'd be very surprised to see Kimi back in any team. I can't see a good reason for Williams to sign him, they need money going to the team rather than to a driver.

ottostreet

Wasn't Fisichella in 16th place during one of the races while Kimi was dicing with the leaders towards the end of 2009...I may look this one up!

amacachi

ottostreet wrote: »

Wasn't Fisichella in 16th place during one of the races while Kimi was dicing with the leaders towards the end of 2009...I may look this one up!

Aye, Badoer filled in for Massa and no-one could believe how slow he was. Then Fisi came in and proceeded to qualify in P14, 18, 16, 20 and 20. There were 20 runners in each race so if that doesn't show what a dog the car was then nothing will.

ottostreet

amacachi wrote: »

Aye, Badoer filled in for Massa and no-one could believe how slow he was. Then Fisi came in and proceeded to qualify in P14, 18, 16, 20 and 20. There were 20 runners in each race so if that doesn't show what a dog the car was then nothing will.

Aye, I just looked up their respective results...Kimi annihalated Fisichella. And Fisi wasn't THAT bad...from 2nd in Spa to 14th in Monza...nice.

Kimi was forced out of F1, and i think he wants back. Lose the pride Kimi, and do it! A lot of people would be more delighted to have him back than not!

vectra

I am actually surprised to see the amount of support he is getting here :P

ottostreet

vectra wrote: »

I am actually surprised to see the amount of support he is getting here :P

My two favourite drivers ever are Hakkinen & Raikkonen. Because I've been an F1 fan since childhood, I feel like its an emotional attachment to them, as no matter what ****e is going on in my own life, girlfriends come and go, jobs come and go, school, college, friends, etc., those two drivers were always there, consistently, week in, week out, and were always able to brighten up my weekends with their flair and talent.

If Raikkonen came back, it'd feel like an old friend coming back.

amacachi

ottostreet wrote: »

My two favourite drivers ever are Hakkinen & Raikkonen. Because I've been an F1 fan since childhood, I feel like its an emotional attachment to them, as no matter what ****e is going on in my own life, girlfriends come and go, jobs come and go, school, college, friends, etc., those two drivers were always there, consistently, week in, week out, and were always able to brighten up my weekends with their flair and talent.

If Raikkonen came back, it'd feel like an old friend coming back.

Dude...

vectra

ottostreet wrote: »

My two favourite drivers ever are Hakkinen & Raikkonen. Because I've been an F1 fan since childhood, I feel like its an emotional attachment to them, as no matter what ****e is going on in my own life, girlfriends come and go, jobs come and go, school, college, friends, etc., those two drivers were always there, consistently, week in, week out, and were always able to brighten up my weekends with their flair and talent.

If Raikkonen came back, it'd feel like an old friend coming back.

I thought I was the only Kimi fan around here :cool:

Grim.

vectra wrote: »

I thought I was the only Kimi fan around here :cool:

na you just like to think you are :P

vectra

Grim. wrote: »

na you just like to think you are :P

Na
I was made feel that way by everyone else on here

amacachi

He likes to make me feel small.

losthorizon

ottostreet wrote: »

My two favourite drivers ever are Hakkinen & Raikkonen. Because I've been an F1 fan since childhood, I feel like its an emotional attachment to them, as no matter what ****e is going on in my own life, girlfriends come and go, jobs come and go, school, college, friends, etc., those two drivers were always there, consistently, week in, week out, and were always able to brighten up my weekends with their flair and talent.

If Raikkonen came back, it'd feel like an old friend coming back.

Raikkonen was paid huge amounts of money and drove around disinterested for the last year or two. I grew up with Rubens- he still has the hunger, fight and determination plus hes a nice guy. If I was a team owner I wouldnt touch Kimi with a barge pole. He must be related to Montoya in some way!

rua1972

I'd love to see him back in F1. Hopefully his working attitude has changed. Coulthard told the story that kimi would sleep in the back of a truck, wake up do his very fast laps and go back to sleep again. During some testsessions. We'll see next year, Kubica's return is still not sure.

vectra

rua1972 wrote: »

I'd love to see him back in F1. Hopefully his working attitude has changed. Coulthard told the story that kimi would sleep in the back of a truck, wake up do his very fast laps and go back to sleep again. During some testsessions. We'll see next year, Kubica's return is still not sure.

I remember that.
I couldn't care less about his work attitude or any other attitude to be honest once he comes back and regians his old form.

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

I remember that.
I couldn't care less about his work attitude or any other attitude to be honest once he comes back and regians his old form.

He wont regain his old form in a car that has no chance of winning races.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

He wont regain his old form in a car that has no chance of winning races.

But if he can make it shift and show some promise there are plenty of seat up for grabs in 2013..
I would still love to see him in a red bull up against Vettel

Tea 1000

Sleep in the back of a truck? Kimi would sleep in the seat of a Ferrari F1 car, then wake up sometime in the middle of a race on a Sunday, realise where he is (somewhere like 10th), and set fastest laps for the remainder of the race!

vectra

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Sleep in the back of a truck? Kimi would sleep in the seat of a Ferrari F1 car, then wake up sometime in the middle of a race on a Sunday, realise where he is (somewhere like 10th), and set fastest laps for the remainder of the race!

And that is exactly how he became wdc :rolleyes:

StephenHendry

ottostreet wrote: »

My two favourite drivers ever are Hakkinen & Raikkonen. Because I've been an F1 fan since childhood, I feel like its an emotional attachment to them, as no matter what ****e is going on in my own life, girlfriends come and go, jobs come and go, school, college, friends, etc., those two drivers were always there, consistently, week in, week out, and were always able to brighten up my weekends with their flair and talent.

If Raikkonen came back, it'd feel like an old friend coming back.

i would like to see kimi come back, the options are few atm possibly williams or force india. ideally id like to see him at renault but i think they will give kubica a chance with senna as a teamate. i like bruno so i wouldn't like to see him get the chop

Tea 1000

vectra wrote: »

And that is exactly how he became wdc :rolleyes:

And that's exactly the comment we see from you that makes us all call you a die-hard fanboy who can't see faults with Kimi or VRS's!
Relax will ya? I think Kimi was one of the quickest drivers in F1 in the last 10 years, but you can't honestly believe that he gave his absolute best in every single race?

vectra

Tea 1000 wrote: »

And that's exactly the comment we see from you that makes us all call you a die-hard fanboy who can't see faults with Kimi or VRS's!
Relax will ya? I think Kimi was one of the quickest drivers in F1 in the last 10 years, but you can't honestly believe that he gave his absolute best in every single race?

No,
Not a die hard fan of any of the above mentioned.

I enjoyed his racing when he was on form.
Not when he was off form, But to be fair to him he dragged that bucket around when any other driver that sat in Massa's seat could do nothing with it.

As for the vRS.
Why wouldn't I be happy with it?
Not saying I love it as it has its downs as well as it's up's.
Fortunately the Up's outweigh the Down's

Tea 1000

vectra wrote: »

No,
Not a die hard fan of any of the above mentioned.

I enjoyed his racing when he was on form.
Not when he was off form, But to be fair to him he dragged that bucket around when any other driver that sat in Massa's seat could do nothing with it.

As for the vRS.
Why wouldn't I be happy with it?
Not saying I love it as it has its downs as well as it's up's.
Fortunately the Up's outweigh the Down's

I'm saying you get overly defensive when someone else highlights a down.
Kimi in fairness did take a nap for many races, then woke up and all of a sudden Fastest Lap: Raikkonen was up on the bottom of the screen!
Massa is a reasonably good driver, but I'd rate him a fair distance off Kimi in terms of talent, but yet Kimi let Massa beat him for a season and a half while he napped! I think he was bored or something in his last 2 seasons.

losthorizon

I actually think that Massa is beginning to get his act together again. Last few races hes getting closer and closer to Alonso. I actually dont think Alonso or many people have spotted it yet.

Frank Bullitt

Can't see him making much of an impact if he were to return, Williams are struggling at the minute, quite badly, so I would expect that to continue into next year with no big rule changes for them to improve on.

IMO I do think he is past his prime as well, in 2005 he was epic to watch in that McLaren, but he was let down badly by the team.

The cars will have changed quite a bit also, so time to adapt could be long.

Cool_CM

My favourite F1 incidents involving Kimi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlsMVzrp2o

Same GP too!

vectra

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'm saying you get overly defensive when someone else highlights a down.
Kimi in fairness did take a nap for many races, then woke up and all of a sudden Fastest Lap: Raikkonen was up on the bottom of the screen!
Massa is a reasonably good driver, but I'd rate him a fair distance off Kimi in terms of talent, but yet Kimi let Massa beat him for a season and a half while he napped! I think he was bored or something in his last 2 seasons.

But how do you know for fact that he was napping.?
After all as you admit yourself, he was well capable of putting in fastest laps.
Perhaps he was told to leave Massa have a shot at WDC ?
Who knows.
We all know that Ferrari are damn handy at instructing their drivers what to do.

freestyla

vectra wrote: »

But how do you know for fact that he was napping.?
After all as you admit yourself, he was well capable of putting in fastest laps.
Perhaps he was told to leave Massa have a shot at WDC ?
Who knows.
We all know that Ferrari are damn handy at instructing their drivers what to do.

Exactly. And even if he was napping it's because he didn't feel comfortable anymore - Kimi is just sooo totaly from a different world than unfair Ferrari management.

Tea 1000

vectra wrote: »

But how do you know for fact that he was napping.?
After all as you admit yourself, he was well capable of putting in fastest laps.
Perhaps he was told to leave Massa have a shot at WDC ?
Who knows.
We all know that Ferrari are damn handy at instructing their drivers what to do.

I asked him! He said he likes nothing better than to hop into his jammies with his blankie and wake up sometime around lap 32!

vectra

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I asked him! He said he likes nothing better than to hop into his jammies with his blankie and wake up sometime around lap 32!

Very informative answer.:D