Fringe S04E01 "Neither Here Nor There" [** SPOILERS **]

FreudianSlippers

The teams on the two worlds work together to solve the case of a shapeshifter, and Agent Lincoln Lee joins his world's team when no one remembers the existence of Peter Bishop.

Antar Bolaeisk

This is on tonight! Woohoo!

Also, boo, no poll

FreudianSlippers

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

This is on tonight! Woohoo!

Also, boo, no poll

Yeah, I clicked on add a poll and it didn't work.

VinLieger

Cannot wait for this!!!!!!

Colmo52

Sky1 have it next Wednesday.

I wont be able to wait so i'll probably watch it tomorrow

busyliving

So what time will it be over here, when its on over there?

Gingervitis

No quick answers in this one. A little surprised they went with a monster of the week for an opener, although it was a nice call back to the pilot (translucent skin), but enough threads for me not to have a clue what's going on.

I hope they resolve the Peter Bishop storyline sooner rather than later, we've seen the seeds of this with the rebel Observer. I'm still not entirely sure how the universes are coexisting (having to go through an airlock/decontamination room to end up in universe B?) but I trust the writers know what they're doing.

Very glad this is back.

Oh, and love the new colour scheme for the opening credits!

busyliving

Well worth staying up to watch

The Black Oil

A solid enough opener, not terrible, but not great. The tracking and chase of the shapeshifter was pretty tame.

Didn't really warm to Olivia in this one. She felt more like a supervisory agent (ASAC or something) than a field agent. Sure, she mostly lead investigations in the past, but things felt a little different here for some reason. She's bound to be a bit on edge in working with the other side, seemed a bit stick up her rear end here, though. The whole 'it's classified' lark, hopefully they won't hang on to this for too long. I like Agent Lee, but I hope the writers won't make him too by the book (e.g., his comments on lying to the families). He's probably a relatively new or junior FBI agent (though perhaps not if he was after arms dealers), but if he keeps up this talk it'll be dismissed as liberal ideology or some such.

Interesting nod to John le Carre, great timing..
Walter was on form, as you'd expect. Hope he's not unwell.

'The microwave was causing a disturbance', will have to use that one. :pac:

Richard Dower

Great opener despite no arc progression, loved the end in the halfway point between universes. More thoughts later

VinLieger

Gingervitis wrote: »

I'm still not entirely sure how the universes are coexisting (having to go through an airlock/decontamination room to end up in universe B?) but I trust the writers know what they're doing.

The room isnt one or other of the universes its a essentially a pocket universe where the 2 can coexist, and the scanning rooms im guessing are to ensure no imposters try to come back through.

All in all i liked it, deffinitely one of the better premieres of this season but its fringe so like there was ever any doubt,
I hope they keep the where is peter thing going till at least mid season cus if we get him back easily in 3-4 episodes the whole thing was pretty pointless

Antar Bolaeisk

Thought it was quite good, though a little strange to have everything the same but different.

Was it my imagination or was there a picture of a body in the machine readouts on the computers?

Strong enough opener but it was let down a bit by having to go through the back story, even if it was slightly different from what we remember.

stevenmu

Thought this was a good strong opener. One of the things I loved about season 3, especially the 1st half, was that they did a great job of blending monster of the week with series arcs and they seem to be going that way again.

Olivia and Walter seem to be quite different as a result of Peter not existing, that was really well acted out.

There's obviously going to be strong observer involvement this season, finally. And I wonder where the new type of shapeshifter will lead, 3rd universe? Alternate timeline?

Also, will looking for flashes of Peter be the new "spot the observer"? (I saw 2 other than the TV at the end)

The Black Oil

The Black Oil wrote: »

A solid enough opener, not terrible, but not great. The tracking and chase of the shapeshifter was pretty tame.

Didn't really warm to Olivia in this one. She felt more like a supervisory agent (ASAC or something) than a field agent. Sure, she mostly lead investigations in the past, but things felt a little different here for some reason. She's bound to be a bit on edge in working with the other side, seemed a bit stick up her rear end here, though. The whole 'it's classified' lark, hopefully they won't hang on to this for too long.

That's because peter isn't around any more, she used to be more mellowed out because he was around and she moved on from her dying partner. And she has that "hole in her life" now that she doesnt know the cause of.
It was interesting to see the changes in walter, including how he's able to remember Astrid's name now. And she's not meekly hiding in the lab with him all the time now too.
Very interesting!

I don't think this was a Monster of the Week episode as such. Part of me suspects that this is the Other Other Universe (the one hinted at previously - the Orange Universe, I think), which might be more technologically advanced than the other two - hence human shape shifters. Wonder if we'll get to see an Alterwalternate. Quite an interesting opener - wonder if the Observers will ever be fully explained - we know they're the .. overseers somewhat, the people that make sure events happen, but are they also the First People?

tvnutz

I should probably rewatch this tomorrow when I'm not drunk...

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

Part of me suspects that this is the Other Other Universe (the one hinted at previously - the Orange Universe, I think), which might be more technologically advanced than the other two - hence human shape shifters.

Where have you got this 3rd universe from? the creators have said the orange colour in the intro is meant to symbolise peter not being there

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Part of me suspects that this is the Other Other Universe (the one hinted at previously - the Orange Universe, I think), which might be more technologically advanced than the other two - hence human shape shifters.

Where have you got this 3rd universe from? the creators have said the orange colour in the intro is meant to symbolise peter not being there

From an episode in the previous season, there was a moment where Walternate was standing in front of a board that had red, yellow and orange, though I could be wrong, and there was a discussion on here that it was hinting at another Universe - the Orange universe.

DjFlin

I'm starting to get the feeling that Fringe is just going to get more and more convoluted, never offer any answers, and have a seriously sub-par end.

I really really hope I'm wrong.

Antar Bolaeisk

DjFlin wrote: »

I'm starting to get the feeling that Fringe is just going to get more and more convoluted, never offer any answers, and have a seriously sub-par end.

I really really hope I'm wrong.

So long as the journey to that sub-par ending is excellent, I don't really care.

omniscient_toad

bluewolf wrote: »

That's because peter isn't around any more, she used to be more mellowed out because he was around and she moved on from her dying partner. And she has that "hole in her life" now that she doesnt know the cause of.
It was interesting to see the changes in walter, including how he's able to remember Astrid's name now. And she's not meekly hiding in the lab with him all the time now too.
Very interesting!

Exactly, that more detached colder Olivia is the result of a Peter-less universe, as was the more unstable Walter ("he's never had anything to anchor him to this world" was a bit of a give-away). I like the way they never directly touched on Peter's absence beyond the observers and left us to try and piece together how things have reformed around the hole he's left. One obvious one seems to have been the loss of any previous interaction with Agent Lee who popped up before in the episode about the immortal woman attempting to end her life.

I'm curious whether Peter's entire existence has been erased from birth onwards or whether things have simply reverted to the "correct" path the observers speak of where young Peter doesn't survive the crash in the lake. I wonder if William Bell is still alive on the other side as without Peter events may not have led him to give his life to allow Walter and co to return to their universe.

tvnutz

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

So long as the journey to that sub-par ending is excellent, I don't really care.

you should,because Lost was like that up until the final season,which was $hite,then the ending was $hite,so basically I feel like I was cheated with that show because they had no idea what they were at and it was all nonsense. Hopefully fringe is not the same! The journey can be great but then can be fucked up by a load of nonsense ala Lost.

red dave

I thought it was an alright season opener. I just found the constant mentioning of "always felt like something missing" etc. a little irritating.

I came away more satisfied with the season openers of Nikita, Supernatural and Hawaii five-0 whereas with Fringe it felt kind of like a mid-season ep. Yeah we may have been introduced to the new guys on the block but I felt like the characters in the show saying to myself "it feels like somethings missing"

red dave

tvnutz wrote: »

you should,because Lost was like that up until the final season,which was $hite,then the ending was $hite,so basically I feel like I was cheated with that show because they had no idea what they were at and it was all nonsense. Hopefully fringe is not the same! The journey can be great but then can be fucked up by a load of nonsense ala Lost.

It's weird....Lost seems to be a real divisive series amongst the "fans". I thought the only weak series was the 3rd one and all the others were excellent. I loved the last series also along with the finale.

DjFlin

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

So long as the journey to that sub-par ending is excellent, I don't really care.

I wouldnt either, but its starting to get repetitive. Another random monster stealing stuff from peoples bodies. Surprise surprise.

omniscient_toad

omniscient_toad wrote: »

I'm curious whether Peter's entire existence has been erased from birth onwards or whether things have simply reverted to the "correct" path the observers speak of where young Peter doesn't survive the crash in the lake.

The latter I suspect - Walter made a bitter comment about "sometimes they die twice", so I think both young peters died. And since they still blame him for opening a door, I think it would be in the lake.

stevenmu

bluewolf wrote: »

The latter I suspect - Walter made a bitter comment about "sometimes they die twice", so I think both young peters died. And since they still blame him for opening a door, I think it would be in the lake.

+1, also the observers said that they must never find out that the boy became a man, and someone (Astrid?) told Walter that Walternate had plenty of reason to hate him too. So I think the part about Blue Peter dying, and Walter taking Red Peter still happened, just Red Peter then died in the crash.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

From an episode in the previous season, there was a moment where Walternate was standing in front of a board that had red, yellow and orange, though I could be wrong, and there was a discussion on here that it was hinting at another Universe - the Orange universe.

From what ive read from the writers the orange universe may simply just be that peter isnt around anymore at least thats what it seems like from reading this

http://www.tvline.com/2011/09/fringe-season-4-preview-joshua-jackson/

FreudianSlippers

I'm going to need to check her anus.


Overall it was a bit of a 'meh' opener. You'd think they'd at least clue in Agent Lee about the alternate universe before exposing him to it... that's a bit stupid really.

ratedR

Bit of a slow opener alright. But I'm just glad it's back. It's strange without Peter too, I wonder how long before he's back full time in some capacity or another ? I've heard rumours of him being an observer ??

don ramo

a decent opener, the luminus fella is from the future universe that peter visited near the end of the last season where oliva was killed by walternate, there still shapeshifters but that chip thingy looked more advanced, so maybe they are shifting through time to stop something that has happened in the future,

last we saw the 2 universe were at war in the future, and walternate was hiding out here, obviously that should have changed, but maybe events are now unfolding in another unsatifactory way, and peter will be needed yet again to fix it, (my theory anyway)

also if peter is dead on both sides who would have been operating the machine,

also did they say how many people had been killed, it looks like the shapeshifters are taking people identities as usual,

VinLieger

don ramo wrote: »

a decent opener, the luminus fella is from the future universe that peter visited near the end of the last season where oliva was killed by walternate, there still shapeshifters but that chip thingy looked more advanced, so maybe they are shifting through time to stop something that has happened in the future,

last we saw the 2 universe were at war in the future, and walternate was hiding out here, obviously that should have changed, but maybe events are now unfolding in another unsatifactory way, and peter will be needed yet again to fix it, (my theory anyway)

Interesting theory but i think its just walternate from the present whos been said to be still eveil, although im not gonna rule out time travel

also if peter is dead on both sides who would have been operating the machine

He is dead but yet he still operated the machine, its a bit of a paradox.

also did they say how many people had been killed, it looks like the shapeshifters are taking people identities as usual,

I dont think they are taking identities as the previous shapeshifters would destroy the body and then assume the identity which these new ones arent doing since they are leaving the bodies to be found which would render the identity useless
It seems to me they are feeding on the bodies energy, going with your theory it could be to stop them dying from some bad timetravel effects

oxygen

Watched this last night. I was very happy with it. I wasnt expecting a great big opener, but we got a decent episode that started off as a monster of the week but ended up adding a recurring enemy. And a recurring agent.

While I do like the Agent Lee character, I don’t like that he has been introduced to the Fringe division randomly in 3 separate Universes/Time lines. These sort of coincidences are the downfall of a lot of parallel/alternate timeline/universe plots. I was disappointed enough to see him meet our universes ultra secret fringe division by coincidence last season, but to meet them again in a new time line, just because he was a new character on the other side.

I actually liked him on the other side because it showed that the writters understand randomalities happen when universes run in parallel so there was no him on our side. So the added a character over there what was never, or will never be introduced on our side.

What happened to Peter seems fairly straight forward, unless I’m missing something?

Peter is born, Peter grows to be a boy in both universes. He dies of the disease in the our universe. Our Walter tears the hole in the universe to kidnap the alternate universes Peter. This causes the degradation of the alternate universe. Hence Walternate hates Walter.

Peter then drowns in the lake in our universe (hence the "Some people die twice comment")

somuj

Maybe these new shapeshifters are second generation. Created by the original shapeshifters as a way of reproducing but with some flaw that requires them to extract chemicals from humans.

oxygen

I love the theory above that they are more advanced shapeshifters from the future peter visited and that the chip Walter was holding was something to do with time travel. Could be the way they plan on bringing Peter back?

These shape shifters needed magnesium was it, and the previous shape shifters needed mercury?


Also love the throw away line from Walter
"I need to see her anus" while shovelling in a mouthful of popcorn.
Classic Walter.

I miss the classic funnier prePeter-doesnt-exist Walter. This ones a bit more deranged and not as funny.

Imagine this Walter standing crimes against humanity that the previous Walter had to stand last season, they both committed basically the same crime.