Ian Keatley

gosplan

So, he's getting a fair few plaudits at the moment and the fact that O'Gara won't be around for ever brings him into the question.

I haven't seen much of him tbh so I'm just wondering how people rate him?

What's he been like against big teams, how was he in the ACC last year, etc.

Ste_D

He had a few decent games for Connaught, but I really cant see him as a decent HC/International player, I just dont see where all the hype is coming from.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong.

bamboozle

talented guy who has made the most of his time with Connacht and is now looking to step up to HC standard, a year or two at munster and he'll be ready to challenge for the irish spot...Paddy Jackson at Ulster might get there ahead of him though.

If you contrast the careers (thus far) of Paul O'Donoghue and Keatley, half backs together at Belvedere College (won the SCT in a team with Eoin O'Malley and Cian Healy on it) Irish schools & U20's half backs, after a season playing AIL with Clontarf where they both excelled, POD got a pro contract with Leinster, Keatley went to Connacht. Keatley now has a wealth of magner's experience behind him and his game has improved big time. POD has struggled for time at Leinster and looked to have regressed last season, hopefully his move to Connacht this season will give him the change to prove his ability.

GerM

He's a good player and has potential to be a very good one and a solid international. I don't think he'll ever reach ROG's level though. His decision making and game control isn't at the level where it needs to be but it will improve at Munster. There were several occasions watching Connacht last season where the game was hanging by a thread and he was trying to run it 30m from his own line and trying things that simply weren't on. He has the ability to play a great game but he's still learning how to apply those skills. He should pick up a fair bit from ROG. I'd consider him somewhat similar to Warwick but a better defender. Would love to see him get a few games at 12 alongside ROG.

ambid

Too early to say I think. In 2009 Sexton was struggling for form, playing AIL, and was (according to one article) apparently considering whether he had a future at Leinster. Now he's a superstar.

Keatley is still young and has spent the last couple of years playing in a struggling team. He's proven he deserves a shot at a higher level, but we'll only know how good he can be when we see him play for Munster for a couple of years.

It's tough to see him eclipse ROG or Sexton, but I think he's been impressive so far. Good luck to him.

phog

GerM wrote: »

He's a good player and has potential to be a very good one and a solid international. I don't think he'll ever reach ROG's level though. His decision making and game control isn't at the level where it needs to be but it will improve at Munster. There were several occasions watching Connacht last season where the game was hanging by a thread and he was trying to run it 30m from his own line and trying things that simply weren't on. He has the ability to play a great game but he's still learning how to apply those skills. He should pick up a fair bit from ROG. I'd consider him somewhat similar to Warwick but a better defender. Would love to see him get a few games at 12 alongside ROG.

Didnt we see Contepomi do similar when at Leinster and he would have had lots more experience than Keatley has at this stage.

I think it's far to early to try and 2nd guess where Keatley will be in a few years time, it depends on how much gametime he'll actually get at Munster once ROG returns, how he'll develop from playing and training with the Munster squad. So far I like what I've seen of him and he is certainly proving to be a success at Munster but that may be because he's competing against teams that are misisng their internationals.

Zzippy

Great young(ish) player, has improved enormously in the last 2 years, Munster would not have signed him if they didn't think he was good enough.

Very quick, scored or set up some great tries last year by making line breaks at serious pace. Great defence, good tackler, and no problem defending the 10 channel.

Kicking has improved a lot, his decision making is coming on but could improve further, place kicking is usually very good. Gets a backline moving, with a quality backline he could do very well. Connacht's centres the last couple of years weren't blessed with pace or being able to slip past players, so that ability wasn't seen as much, but he is well able to run a backline.

Put it this way, if I was a Munster fan I wouldn't be too worried about the future.

krissovo

Seen him three times this season, made some difficult kicks, looks useful in attack with good quick lines and also the defense looks handy.

I think he will develop into a fine player but I need to see him against some strong teams before I call it out.

.ak

I've had to watch him in a red shirt as I've missed all of Munster's games due to work, but I did see him at 12 playing for Ireland (vs Connacht) and can't say I was impressed.

But yeah, he's young and has potential...

GerM

phog wrote: »

Didnt we see Contepomi do similar when at Leinster and he would have had lots more experience than Keatley has at this stage.

I've no idea what Contepomi has to do with Ian Keatley to be honest. The fact is, though, Contepomi was on another level entirely in terms of sizing up the possibilities of running the ball. If he ran it, it usually meant that it was on. Keatley's is a decent runner but he's more of an all round player than the livewire Contepomi was. He should look to develop his game management and he's in the best place possible to do it. No shortage of talent, just needs to apply it correctly.

profitius

He needs to improve his decision making and kicking from hand. I think he will.

Theres also the possibility of turning him into a 12 if playing at 10 doesn't work out.

Rickwellwood

Keats' game management has improved dramatically in the past two years from his time at Connacht.

Used not see space for tactical kicks but much better now.

Improved communicator on the field.

Stronger attacking lines and improved distribution.

Stronger in defense and not afraid to get stuck in.

New opportunity at Munster will bring him on in leaps and bounds.

Like Zippy earlier, Munster fans need not worry too much. ROG will bring him on too.

Good luck to Keats.

pappyodaniel

He's a great prospect so I hope he get's some HEC games under his belt this season. Wouldn't it be a shame if he left Connacht (& their HEC campaign) and missed out on playing top flight European rugby?

He was out half on Ireland's U20 Grand Slam winning team from 4 years ago.

CowboyTed

See Keats for a few years in Connaght you get that Warwick feeling about him. We knew he was destined for greater things and we were only getting him on loan.

I saw him for Ireland (v Connaght) game and the move to Munster has seemed to bring him on another step. He was superb that day and any neutral observerwould find it hard to explain how the guy out of position at 12 is not going while the guy going is out of position at 10.

Say he is has a bright future... Fionn Carr is doing damage in Lenister as well.. I suppose both are loving not being the main targets of other teams...

marco_polo

To put a quantitive measurements on his progress so far, if he keeps improving at the same rate I'd estimate we are about a year away from the appearance of Keatley Vs Sexton threads.

shuffol

He takes the ball very flat which is nice to see although he often tries too hard. I can see him coming on leaps and bounds though, expect to see him in Irish squads for next years November internationals. I suspect O'Gara will have retired from international rugby by then and he will be our only option bar Sexton and Humphries. Jackson wont be an Ulster regular by then, looking at the way Paul Marshall started the seaon I'd imagine Pienaar will be 2nd choice 10 should Humphries get injured, thus limiting Jacksons opportunities. Mckinneys another talent who probably wont be getting a look in, I would've liked to see him going to Connacht rather than NOC.

Cpt_Blackbeard

He is undoubtedly the best Irish OH with the ball in hand but, he has it all to prove with his game management and kicking. If he maximizes what he learns from from ROG in the next 2 years, we will have another real OH debate on our hands.

danthefan

He's done well for Munster so far, which is encouraging. Leinster could seriously do with him right about now.

CIARAN_BOYLE

To be honest I think he could be an excellent 2nd five eights type 12, unfortunately we don't have enough 10s that we can just ignore him in that position. He has a lot of good attribues but his kicking from the tee is 10% or so from being good enough for him to be consider in contention to be a top international OH.

Hagz

Don't see him ever reaching international level to be honest. If ROG were to retire after the WC, I'd prefer we went with Steenson rather than Keatley. All this talk of out-halves is making me think of poor old McKinley. He was a cert.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He is undoubtedly the best Irish OH with the ball in hand but, he has it all to prove with his game management and kicking. If he maximizes what he learns from from ROG in the next 2 years, we will have another real OH debate on our hands.

Not intentionally derailing, but I don't think any Irish outhalf can hold a candle to iHumph with ball in hand. Fantastic runner and passer. Madigan is a very good runner and passer also, very low centre of gravity, his try a couple of weeks ago was superb. Keatley has a better all round game though which puts him above any of the other future contenders. The other two have major weaknesses in game management and/or defence. Keatley's kicking is decent enough. It has come a long way in the past few years.

GerM

Hagz wrote: »

Don't see him ever reaching international level to be honest. If ROG were to retire after the WC, I'd prefer we went with Steenson rather than Keatley. All this talk of out-halves is making me think of poor old McKinley. He was a cert.

Steenson will never make it. He can't get his game for Exeter, is 27 and doesn't offer much in terms of running a back line.

Keatley is in pole position to take over ROG's spot in the Irish squad. He has the best all round game and is going to improve steadily in the next couple of years. Jackson is an unknown quantity somewhat still but he's the other person I think will contend for a spot in the coming 3 or 4 years.

EDIT: You're absolutely right on McKinley. The bloke had international stamped all over him from about the age of 18. Even after the injury, he showed the most class relative to his age. I'm convinced he'd have overtaken Sexton in a few years if he was never injured.

Flincher

To be fair to Keatley, pretty much all his professional rugby has been played on the back foot. Its hard enough to develop game management, patience, and all that goes with it as a 10 when for the most part, you need to maximize every opportunity to take points.

Even since the London Irish pre-season game, he has shown a lot more composure when attacking. I felt he was forcing things then, like he had to with Connacht, but in the 2 Pro12 games I've seen, he's letting the ball go through the hands a bit more, and then when he does make a break, the defence are caught a bit more off guard.

Game management and all that will come with time, but I think he is a good enough rugby player, in terms of his basic skills to make it to the top. I reckon give him 6 months, and see how he is adapting to playing on the front foot, and dealing with the pressure that comes with playing for a top province.

siltirocker

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest I think he could be an excellent 2nd five eights type 12, unfortunately we don't have enough 10s that we can just ignore him in that position. He has a lot of good attribues but his kicking from the tee is 10% or so from being good enough for him to be consider in contention to be a top international OH.

I agree with the beginning of your post but I am certain Keatley had a better percentage than ROG & Sexton for the past 2 years at least. Last season he was at 83% and was at something similiar the year before.

roycon

keatley is irelands best running outhalf. madigan is coming along well but his passing isnt quite as sympathetic as keatleys. keatleys problem has been and always will be his place kicking at topquality heineken cup or international standard. his kicking from hand is actually quite good just his decision making can sometimes be a bit inconsistent. his defense is rock solid. great step, great pace. i look forward to him playing with a better team this year. nice to see mafi and earls outside him

profitius

roycon wrote: »

keatley is irelands best running outhalf. madigan is coming along well but his passing isnt quite as sympathetic as keatleys. keatleys problem has been and always will be his place kicking at topquality heineken cup or international standard. his kicking from hand is actually quite good just his decision making can sometimes be a bit inconsistent. his defense is rock solid. great step, great pace. i look forward to him playing with a better team this year. nice to see mafi and earls outside him

I thought he had the opposite problem. Good at place kicking but his kicking from hand is not great. Theres no better man the ROG to learn from in that regard. I agree with the rest of your statement.

Ste_D

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He is undoubtedly the best Irish OH with the ball in hand but, he has it all to prove with his game management and kicking. If he maximizes what he learns from from ROG in the next 2 years, we will have another real OH debate on our hands.

Ah here! :rolleyes: He's a young lad with potential but he is yet to prove himself.

siltirocker wrote: »

I agree with the beginning of your post but I am certain Keatley had a better percentage than ROG & Sexton for the past 2 years at least. Last season he was at 83% and was at something similiar the year before.

Keatley wasn't taking his kicks in the pressure situations of the Heineken cup.

GerM

Regardless, Sexton was the highest return kicker in Europe this year with about 90%.

siltirocker

Ste_D wrote: »

Ah here! :rolleyes: He's a young lad with potential but he is yet to prove himself.



Keatley wasn't taking his kicks in the pressure situations of the Heineken cup.

Oh I know. But when a player has an 80%+ return on his kicks on goal, one can't say they are bad from the tee. Simply doesn't make sense.

We went off form around Christmas last year but there was a point when he was at 39 from 44 up till some point last year.

marco_polo

GerM wrote: »

Regardless, Sexton was the highest return kicker in Europe this year with about 90%.

Not wanting to drag the thread off topic, but that stat just begs the question for his kicking coach, if it ain't broke, why try fix it?

GerM

Different coaches at Leinster and Ireland for a start but I wouldn't put it down to coaching. He's just having a bad time of it with the boot. Richie Murohy, his Leinster kicking coach, has publicly said that Sexton has not changed his technique.

petebricquette

GerM wrote: »

Different coaches at Leinster and Ireland for a start but I wouldn't put it down to coaching. He's just having a bad time of it with the boot. Richie Murohy, his Leinster kicking coach, has publicly said that Sexton has not changed his technique.

There's an interview in the Times where they have a chat with Sexto's kicking coach. Here it is: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0923/1224304578416.html

The gist of it is that Sexton's technique hasn't changed but that it could be the markings on the ball (which the guys would use as a frame of reference) have changed on the official RWC ball. Not overly worried about it at the moment in the Irish camp but they're aware of the issue and that the stats need to improve.

thomond2006

Well he had an outstanding night from the tee tonight!

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well he had an outstanding night from the tee tonight!

He did. No right to get all of those kicks. 4/6 would have been a good return from those. In that type of game, where Munster didn't really get into Cardiff's 22, playing like that is massive.

padser

danthefan wrote: »

He's done well for Munster so far, which is encouraging. Leinster could seriously do with him right about now.

Yeah I was very disappointed during the summer when Leinster didnt take him back. Having gone and brought Hagan and Carr back I would have thought that Keatley would have made the perfect back up for Sexton rather than going for a SH import to fill the role.

Problem with Leinster is we have so many academy graduates knocking about there isn't space for all of them. I would have made space for Keatley though!! :-)

irishbucsfan

padser wrote: »

Yeah I was very disappointed during the summer when Leinster didnt take him back. Having gone and brought Hagan and Carr back I would have thought that Keatley would have made the perfect back up for Sexton rather than going for a SH import to fill the role.

Problem with Leinster is we have so many academy graduates knocking about there isn't space for all of them. I would have made space for Keatley though!! :-)

Pretty sure he'd much rather be O'Gara's understudy than Sexton's.

CIARAN_BOYLE

padser wrote: »

Yeah I was very disappointed during the summer when Leinster didnt take him back. Having gone and brought Hagan and Carr back I would have thought that Keatley would have made the perfect back up for Sexton rather than going for a SH import to fill the role.

Problem with Leinster is we have so many academy graduates knocking about there isn't space for all of them. I would have made space for Keatley though!! :-)

Back up to Sexton with McKinley and Madigan snapping at your heals or understudy to ROG with Deasy and Cusack challenging.

I know which I would have chosen. Hell even with McKinley out of there I'd still choose to be ROG's understudy.

ambid

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pretty sure he'd much rather be O'Gara's understudy than Sexton's.

I don't know about this understudy stuff - I imagine Keatley sees himself challenging for the first choice jersey. O'Gara is 34 and approaching the end of his career, Sexton is 25 and approaching his peak.

Of course you would want to challenge the guy approaching the end of his career.

CatFromHue

Kicking wise he was excellent tonight. Bad missed tackle for their try though. He should have made it or at the least made it more difficult for the Cardiff player. It was a silly sin bin too. That's Munsters sixth yellow in their 4 Pro12 games.

Zzippy

CatFromHue wrote: »

That's Munsters sixth yellow in their 4 Pro12 games.

Shower o' dirty feckers!

/shakes head disapprovingly...

tiger_cub

How do you all think he has done so far this season? we've definitely missed him at the sportsground that for sure!

phog

tiger_cub wrote: »

How do you all think he has done so far this season? we've definitely missed him at the sportsground that for sure!

For me he's given a curates egg of a display, some good and some not so good. I'm more afraid of his game management than anything else, he's doing fine with kicking for goal, kicking from hand and he can certainly distribute the ball to create space but then he seems to let the game get away from him.

I wouldn't be too hard on him as I think he's delivered for us so far but I think he has a huge step up to fill ROG's boots.

jacothelad

The guy is 25. Is he not at his peak? He's o.k. I don't think he'll ever be any different.

phog

jacothelad wrote: »

The guy is 25. Is he not at his peak? He's o.k. I don't think he'll ever be any different.

I dont know, a run of games with Munster's 1st team might help him improve. One of the iisues with Munster not closing out their H/c games earlier is that he got very little game time.

As I say I really dont know about him improving but Coughlan showed 25 isn't the end of developing into a better player.

GerM

Tend to agree with Jaco. Hauling him off after 55 minutes was a big call by TMcG. It said a lot about where Keatley is right now. Deasy is clearly being looked at as the back up again. Keatley has gone backwards since his opening games this season. He was slotting his kicks then and, whilst he did tonight, his game management has been highlighted more since the early season. Tonight, Dragons played a massive amount of rugby and Munster hung in there until the cavalry arrived. Munster only turned the screw when Keatley had departed. He passed with no great incision and was bounced a couple of times in defence. Coughlan gave him a bollocking at one point for a hospital pass. His kicking from hand, overall, has been fairly mixed. He had one or two cracking games earlier this season from the tee but has had some stinkers too. Ospreys at home springs to mind where it cost Munster dearly.

I don't think he's ever going to be the player we hoped. He's 25 and he has had a good number of games to show he has the goods. 12 starts this season should be enough to put his hand firmly up which he hasn't done. ROG probably retires in 12 months. I don't think anyone would be comfortable with Keatley taking the wheel.

phog

GerM wrote: »

..................Tonight, Dragons played a massive amount of rugby and Munster hung in there until the cavalry arrived. Munster only turned the screw when Keatley had departed. ...............

Did we not knock-on with the try line at our mercy in the first half and wasn't TOL (incorrectly imo) penalised for delaying putting the ball into a 5m scrum, a scrum we were dominant in for most of the game. We had out chances that might very well have closed the game out earlier, it's just they didn't come off. In saying that I still thought Keatley's game management wasn't great last night.

BTW, JJ Hanrahan might very well be the outhalf in waiting for ROGs retirement.

irishbucsfan

I think its far too early to call it either way. Wait for him to get a real run in the team.

GerM

phog wrote: »

Did we not knock-on with the try line at our mercy in the first half and wasn't TOL (incorrectly imo) penalised for delaying putting the ball into a 5m scrum, a scrum we were dominant in for most of the game. We had out chances that might very well have closed the game out earlier, it's just they didn't come off. In saying that I still thought Keatley's game management wasn't great last night.

BTW, JJ Hanrahan might very well be the outhalf in waiting for ROGs retirement.

25 minutes of the second half were the Dragons, already in front, knocking on the door. Munster's opportunities and forays into opposition territory were against the general flow of play or as a result of penalties. I don't think too many people would disagree that, on the balance of the first 60 minutes, Dragons were deservedly in front and with a more clinical approach, would have been further ahead. Keatley handed a dangerous Dragons counter attack possession again and again and they ate up the yards.

I don't think Hanrahan will be an outhalf given his lack of time there. Deasy and Cusack are both preferred at 10 for the A side and Hanrahan is a good option at 12. If he's going to be an outhalf, the Munster set up need to start playing him there.