Meteor "Pay as you go" Bill

gerryg80

Hi folks wondering if anyone has any advise on this issue.

Before i went travleing for a few months i got a "pay as you go" phone, so that i could be contacted by close family while i was away. Phone was used very rarily, until last month where there was a few phone calls made back and forward (about 4/5 phone calls). During this time i was "topping" up the phone online, alltogether i think i topped up with about 50 euro.

Fast forward to recent days, and i am now back home working and after moving back onto meteor bill pay (unlimited plan). I recently recieved a text message a few days ago from meteor telling me that my bill was due and that they were shutting down my phone. I have the phone 3 weeks, the agent when signing up told me i would not receive a bill for 6 weeks. So i go onto my account online, to view "this bill". When i see a charge of 110 euro, and then view my online banking and see where meteor tryed to take the balance from my account which failed due to insfficient funds, and i got charged a failed SO fee of 12.50 and now have black mark on my account. I then got onto an agent who tells me that the balance of 110 euro, as come from a previous "pay as you go" account, which was accumulated while i was roaming. I asked how this possible with a pay as you go phone, as they replied that in some countries they phones are charged monthly rather than in real time.

Couple of things
1) I went onto a pay as you go account, to try and safe guard against returning to a big bill.
2) Am i obligated to pay this bill, seeing as i never signed anything associated with that account. i.e. i just picked up a sim card.
3) Surly meteor were obligated to contact me to detail that they were moving a previous "balance" on to my new account and when they were going to retrieve it.

theteal

OP, is your first full bill amounting to €110 or is this just the negative roaming balance?

if its the former, your first bill is usually received within the first 2-3 weeks as you are always signing up mid billing cycle (for virtually all similar services I can think of). also 110 is not a bad first bill for the unlimited plan as you are being charged pro rata for your first couple of weeks (could be less depending on the cycle) and then you're charged your first full month in advance.

check page 3 (i think) of your bill. near the top it should have 2 charges with 2 associated billing date periods - will probably account for 5-6 weeks hence the amount of 110 charged

as for your payg balance, it could very easily have been in negative balance from roaming but it doesn't appear to be a huge factor here if the total first bill amounts to 110

JimsAlterEgo

gerryg80 wrote: »

Hi folks wondering if anyone has any advise on this issue.

Before i went travleing for a few months i got a "pay as you go" phone, so that i could be contacted by close family while i was away. Phone was used very rarily, until last month where there was a few phone calls made back and forward (about 4/5 phone calls). During this time i was "topping" up the phone online, alltogether i think i topped up with about 50 euro.

Fast forward to recent days, and i am now back home working and after moving back onto meteor bill pay (unlimited plan). I recently recieved a text message a few days ago from meteor telling me that my bill was due and that they were shutting down my phone. I have the phone 3 weeks, the agent when signing up told me i would not receive a bill for 6 weeks. So i go onto my account online, to view "this bill". When i see a charge of 110 euro, and then view my online banking and see where meteor tryed to take the balance from my account which failed due to insfficient funds, and i got charged a failed SO fee of 12.50 and now have black mark on my account. I then got onto an agent who tells me that the balance of 110 euro, as come from a previous "pay as you go" account, which was accumulated while i was roaming. I asked how this possible with a pay as you go phone, as they replied that in some countries they phones are charged monthly rather than in real time.

Couple of things
1) I went onto a pay as you go account, to try and safe guard against returning to a big bill.
2) Am i obligated to pay this bill, seeing as i never signed anything associated with that account. i.e. i just picked up a sim card.
3) Surly meteor were obligated to contact me to detail that they were moving a previous "balance" on to my new account and when they were going to retrieve it.

if within cool off period, cancel your contract and move providers. No way should you you carry any mischarge from PAYG.

kensutz

If you're on PAYG and roaming in countries where real time billing isn't supported, you will be charged for any calls, voicemails and texts. The systems don't recognise the details of calls until a couple of weeks roughly after when the calls were made.

gerryg80

theteal wrote: »

OP, is your first full bill amounting to €110 or is this just the negative roaming balance?

if its the former, your first bill is usually received within the first 2-3 weeks as you are always signing up mid billing cycle (for virtually all similar services I can think of). also 110 is not a bad first bill for the unlimited plan as you are being charged pro rata for your first couple of weeks (could be less depending on the cycle) and then you're charged your first full month in advance.

check page 3 (i think) of your bill. near the top it should have 2 charges with 2 associated billing date periods - will probably account for 5-6 weeks hence the amount of 110 charged

as for your payg balance, it could very easily have been in negative balance from roaming but it doesn't appear to be a huge factor here if the total first bill amounts to 110

My next bill amounts to 110 (balance from payg) + 137. I have no issue with the 137 because as you said its for 7 weeks.

gerryg80

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

if within cool off period, cancel your contract and move providers. No way should you you carry any mischarge from PAYG.

any idea what the cooling off period is.

gerryg80

kensutz wrote: »

If you're on PAYG and roaming in countries where real time billing isn't supported, you will be charged for any calls, voicemails and texts. The systems don't recognise the details of calls until a couple of weeks roughly after when the calls were made.

I guess tried to safe guard against arriving home to a bill by using a payg phone

So i guess on the above basis i could just get a sim card before i go to one of these countries, make as many calls etc as i want and then just through away the sim when i arrived home.

JimsAlterEgo

gerryg80 wrote: »

any idea what the cooling off period is.

2 weeks is in my head for some reason, not sure though

JimsAlterEgo

kensutz wrote: »

If you're on PAYG and roaming in countries where real time billing isn't supported, you will be charged for any calls, voicemails and texts. The systems don't recognise the details of calls until a couple of weeks roughly after when the calls were made.

never heard of that and surely its totally against the principle of PAYG

keithclancy

I never register Sim cards, have heard of Vodafone doing something similar with PAYG -> Bill pay switchovers.

gerryg80

JimsAlterEgo; wrote: »

never heard of that and surely its totally against the principle of PAYG .

exactly

keithclancy wrote: »

I never register Sim cards, have heard of Vodafone doing something similar with PAYG -> Bill pay switchovers.

I didnt register as such, i just wanted to keep my usual number

kensutz

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

never heard of that and surely its totally against the principle of PAYG

Not really. Did the OP sign a credit card mandate before he went travelling to a lower band country? There's terms & conditions set out by Meteor that customers travelling to certain countries need to have a balance of €60 and a credit card mandate filled out before they travel to ensure that the non real time billing of the account is covered. If there's any charges which are greater than the €60 deposit, Meteor will deduct the money from the credit card.

gerryg80

kensutz wrote: »

Not really. Did the OP sign a credit card mandate before he went travelling to a lower band country? There's terms & conditions set out by Meteor that customers travelling to certain countries need to have a balance of €60 and a credit card mandate filled out before they travel to ensure that the non real time billing of the account is covered. If there's any charges which are greater than the €60 deposit, Meteor will deduct the money from the credit card.

No i never signed anything. I just picked up a sim card, and got my number switched over. ( I was on bill pay previously).

foggy_lad

gerryg80 wrote: »

No i never signed anything. I just picked up a sim card, and got my number switched over. ( I was on bill pay previously).

Then Meteor cant charge you for any unauthorised negative balance on your pay as you go account! negative balances were banned on prepay accounts a number of years ago when networks were allowing people use the internet and were not cutting off the service when their credit was used up but taking all their credit when they next topped up!

gerryg80

foggy_lad wrote: »

Then Meteor cant charge you for any unauthorised negative balance on your pay as you go account! negative balances were banned on prepay accounts a number of years ago when networks were allowing people use the internet and were not cutting off the service when their credit was used up but taking all their credit when they next topped up!

So were meteor in breach of mobile industry guide lines / rules in allowing my phone on a "payg" contract to go into a negative balance.

drunkmonkey

foggy_lad wrote: »

negative balances were banned on prepay accounts a number of years ago when networks were allowing people use the internet and were not cutting off the service when their credit was used up but taking all their credit when they next topped up!

What network was up to that scam?

foggy_lad

gerryg80 wrote: »

So were meteor in breach of mobile industry guide lines / rules in allowing my phone on a "payg" contract to go into a negative balance.

AFAIK yes they were. They should have secured payment before allowing you use the services, that is what prepay accounts are after all.

Technically they have given you credit without them being licences to offer credit terms on your account, and what's worse is they did it without your permission.

wmpdd3

The cooling off period is 14 days, you must put it in writing that you are canceling under the consumer credit act. You will be cahrged for 14 days service and any calls etc.

gerryg80

foggy_lad wrote: »

AFAIK yes they were. They should have secured payment before allowing you use the services, that is what prepay accounts are after all.

Technically they have given you credit without them being licences to offer credit terms on your account, and what's worse is they did it without your permission.

I've asked them to give me details of the credit agreement, that i unwittingly entered. See what comes back.

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The cooling off period is 14 days, you must put it in writing that you are canceling under the consumer credit act. You will be cahrged for 14 days service and any calls etc.

Ya looks like that ship has sailed.

foggy_lad

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The cooling off period is 14 days, you must put it in writing that you are canceling under the consumer credit act. You will be cahrged for 14 days service and any calls etc.

But they would include the prepay charges as charges made during the cooling off period which is just wrong and afaik illegal.

kensutz

Nothing illegal about what happened. The OP is liable for charges.

gerryg80

kensutz wrote: »

Nothing illegal about what happened. The OP is liable for charges.

care to give some insight?

kensutz

Like I've said in one of my first posts on the thread. It's all in the terms & conditions.

gerryg80

kensutz wrote: »

Like I've said in one of my first posts on the thread. It's all in the terms & conditions.

I presume you mean Terms & conditions for the new contract (which is not too easy to find on their website)? Because im pretty sure i didnt sign/tick anything for the payg.

What meteor have done just doesn't feel right. i.e. the fact that they usualy require customers to register credit cards etc when roaming, would indicate that they got burned on this kind of issue before.

kensutz

Which they'll say to you that you should have found out about it before you went roaming. There's T&C's there for PAYG customers too.

gerryg80

kensutz wrote: »

Which they'll say to you that you should have found out about it before you went roaming. There's T&C's there for PAYG customers too.

3. General

This Agreement is personal to you. You may transfer this Agreement with Meteor's written consent. We may freely transfer existing and/or future debts due by you to us without notice.

http://www.meteor.ie/terms_and_conditions/

think i found it, looks like ill be made cough up and shut up then. Damn thought i was onto something there for a while

kensutz

Could have made it easier by saying I worked for them so I know what they'll say to you.

JimsAlterEgo

did you sign a credit card mandate?

gerryg80

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

did you sign a credit card mandate?

No never signed anything to do with the payg account. But i did sign the terms and conditions for the new bill pay account, which looks to imply that they can freely transfer balances from other accounts over.

JimsAlterEgo

gerryg80 wrote: »

No never signed anything to do with the payg account. But i did sign the terms and conditions for the new bill pay account, which looks to imply that they can freely transfer balances from other accounts over.

I would argue that you shouldn't be able to have a negative balance on a PAYG without at least agreeign to it.

jor el

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

I would argue that you shouldn't be able to have a negative balance on a PAYG without at least agreeign to it.

If it's in the terms of the PAYG account, and he used the PAYG account, then by using it he will be deemed to have accepted them. Whether this is completely enforcible or not is another question, but I'm sure it probably states that negative balance is a possibility when roaming, and if so then it has been agreed to.

kensutz

jor el wrote: »

If it's in the terms of the PAYG account, and he used the PAYG account, then by using it he will be deemed to have accepted them. Whether this is completely enforcible or not is another question, but I'm sure it probably states that negative balance is a possibility when roaming, and if so then it has been agreed to.

Bingo!

foggy_lad

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

I would argue that you shouldn't be able to have a negative balance on a PAYG without at least agreeign to it.

Negative balances are not permitted on prepay accounts and the op should contact ComReg about this. If meteor allow you to use your phone while roaming it is up to them to ensure you have topped up or signed a direct debit mandate beforehand to cover any costs like this.

gerryg80

foggy_lad wrote: »

Negative balances are not permitted on prepay accounts and the op should contact ComReg about this. If meteor allow you to use your phone while roaming it is up to them to ensure you have topped up or signed a direct debit mandate beforehand to cover any costs like this.

I'm currently going back and fought here with meteor, i've also contacted comreg on the issue. Who have asked to be cc'ed on the emails. The last contact i've had with meteor has been "We are forwarding your query to the relevant department" etc.

JimsAlterEgo

foggy_lad wrote: »

Negative balances are not permitted on prepay accounts and the op should contact ComReg about this. If meteor allow you to use your phone while roaming it is up to them to ensure you have topped up or signed a direct debit mandate beforehand to cover any costs like this.

Thats what I would have thought to.

JimsAlterEgo

jor el wrote: »

If it's in the terms of the PAYG account, and he used the PAYG account, then by using it he will be deemed to have accepted them. Whether this is completely enforcible or not is another question, but I'm sure it probably states that negative balance is a possibility when roaming, and if so then it has been agreed to.

Not necessarily it could be deemed an invalid term