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NIMH batteries vs LIPO batteries

  • 22-09-2011 12:25am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 .K.A.L.I.M.A.


    Hello everyone.

    I made this thread to help people to see which type of battery is better, NIMH vs LIPO. If you'r going to buy a AEG with or without a battery, in the end, you would have to get a new battery, including a charger.

    So if you would like to help new or experenced airsoft players by giving them advice on which battery is better, just post them in here.

    Thank you.

    Please remember:
    --- This is not optional, but it would help if you could recommemed a place to buy battereries and chargers.
    --- Cost of NIMH/LIPO batteries. (Optional)
    --- Cost of NIMH/LIPO chargers. (Optional)
    --- Advantages/ Disadvantages of NIMH/LIPO batteries. (Optional)


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭ BioHazRd


    great article here. Google is your friend. Probably more suited to the technical forum


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,222 ✭✭✭✭ Blazer


    First off...your fancy KWA M4 is not 11.1v compatible despite the blurb on it...use only 7.4c lipo with it if you don't want to be replacing gears/piston head within a few skirmishes.

    Very few guns are 11.1v compatible out of the factory, the only ones I can think off are the new VFC E series M4 guns.

    Advantages of lipo: Light and small. There's a huge difference in weight between a lipo and a NiMh battery. I've found there's nothing worse than having this huge 9.6v nimh rattling around in your AEG and throwing the gun off balance.
    Your standard nimh battery is about 200 grams (9.6v 1600mah).
    The lipo below weights only 50g so yo're saving 150g in weight, that's about a third of a pound of butter as I like to put it.

    GP863A_MARK1.jpg

    The higher the C rating the higher the rof.
    I really recommend the G&P batteries above...very light and has a rating of 20c which very nearly gives me the same rof as a 9.6v nimh.
    Anything below 20c I wouldn't bother with.


    I'll throw up some more info later on...I just got nabbed for some work ..at work ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,205 Firekitten


    Why are you making so many VS topics of late? Every time I turn around, its co2 vs gas, aps vs the world... now this. A subject done to death.


    As for the reasons...

    Lithium Polymer batteries are just a better battery type. a 7.4, will perform like a 9.6 (dependant on your c rating on the 7.4) or a very new 8.4. It reduces that 'whurr pop' effect of airsoft guns, and as has been said, they are smaller, and lighter.

    You can fit a larger battery in a smaller space...

    I fit a 2000mah battery inside my sa80 reciver, Lemming fits a 4800 mah lipo inside his m60... it just makes it last longer, which lets you play longer. I didn't have to change my battery ONCE at the recent Sennybridge milsim event... 24 hours...

    There really isnt any reason that NIMH is better. Lipo batteries are just more modern technology.

    *waits for K.A.L.I.M.A to make a 'Firekitten Vs Satan' topic*


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,261 Puding


    a v b tbh is not really the best format for a discussion like this, makes it sound like a competition which tbh it is not, both have there ups and downs, there is also a lot of articles out their that cover the topic well ( far better than we ever will tbh )

    http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/tech-info/lithium-polymer-batteries-part-1/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,222 ✭✭✭✭ Blazer


    In fairness to the chap this is the airsoft section so it makes sense to have stickies like this for the new players.
    I started playing about 2 years ago and there was nothing like this around...would have been great if it was as you tend to take more heed of people's views if they're from the same country as you...and by that I mean as they have experience of the same weather as you, so they'll know if a TM PX4 works good in Ireland in the winter as opposed to reading a review from a guy in the US who says that it rocks and forgets to mention it's 35c where he is.

    Same for lipo batteries, when I started out everyone here was slating lipo and saying they were unreliable, as a result I went back to nimh, but after reading more reviews I switched back and glad I did...even people who were very anti-lipo was surprised at how light they were, how easy to charge to them (as in safe) and that the rof was pretty close to what they were using anyway. I've converted a few people to lipo now at this stage.

    So maybe instead of giving out to the chap, share your experiences or butt out :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 .K.A.L.I.M.A.


    In fairness to the chap this is the airsoft section so it makes sense to have stickies like this for the new players.
    I started playing about 2 years ago and there was nothing like this around...would have been great if it was as you tend to take more heed of people's views if they're from the same country as you...and by that I mean as they have experience of the same weather as you, so they'll know if a TM PX4 works good in Ireland in the winter as opposed to reading a review from a guy in the US who says that it rocks and forgets to mention it's 35c where he is.

    Same for lipo batteries, when I started out everyone here was slating lipo and saying they were unreliable, as a result I went back to nimh, but after reading more reviews I switched back and glad I did...even people who were very anti-lipo was surprised at how light they were, how easy to charge to them (as in safe) and that the rof was pretty close to what they were using anyway. I've converted a few people to lipo now at this stage.

    So maybe instead of giving out to the chap, share your experiences or butt out :p

    Thank you [email protected]

    As you pretty much said, share your experiences, this isn't a discussion on which on is better, don't get the VS misplaced with a "battle discussion" on which one is better.

    This thread and the 'Gas vs CO2' thread are just for newcomers and experience airsoft players to see what they should get before they buy something, again as [email protected] said 'There was nothing like this around...would have been great if it was as you tend to take more heed of people's views if they're from the same country as you'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,205 Firekitten


    Hangon.... you're saying you're going to ignore things said, or go against them, simply because someone is from a different country?

    That sir, is racism.

    As for your thinly veiled jab about 'giving out to the guy' I think you'll find I shared my view, and experience first, and said that its a bad idea second.

    This subject has been done to death. New players are not incapable of searching, gas vs c02, nimh vs lipo, ak vs m4, its all been done. If he starts a 'wot am best gun' thread next, hes got the hattrick. All this information exists, hes turned up and started making topics 'for new players' that already exist, because he didnt bother looking himself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,005 NakedDex


    Didn't I just cover this yesterday?

    Also, the whole "which is better..." argument is entirely disingenuous and misleading.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,222 ✭✭✭✭ Blazer


    Firekitten wrote: »
    Hangon.... you're saying you're going to ignore things said, or go against them, simply because someone is from a different country?

    That sir, is racism.

    bollix...how is it racist when I've already stated why I'd ignore someone's review depending on what country they're from?
    .would have been great if it was as you tend to take more heed of people's views if they're from the same country as you...and by that I mean as they have experience of the same weather as you, so they'll know if a TM PX4 works good in Ireland in the winter as opposed to reading a review from a guy in the US who says that it rocks and forgets to mention it's 35c where he is.




    and quite simply....if you're not going to contribute towards the thread then butt out....who cares if this is the 5th lipo thread in the forum spanning 50 pages etc..if it makes it handy for something new to the sport to decide what he wants or what suits him then I'm all for it..


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,205 Firekitten


    Scarecrow, read up, take off your goggles of indignant rage, and read my initial post, which you will find, is 90% 'on topic' containing my 'contribution' Stop riling things up for a fight please, it's so very droll.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,222 ✭✭✭✭ Blazer


    I'm not having a fight at all :p all I'm saying if what's the harm in having the thread...if a poster wants to do a thread on comparisons what's the harm in it?
    The airsoft forum is quiet enough lately so it's nice to see new guys coming in and starting new threads and getting involved...that's all I'm saying ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭ TommyKnocker


    I am new to Airsoft myself and while I agree that a thread discussing the differences between green, Co2 gas or Nimh/Lipo etc is helpful to us noo-b's, could this not be confined to a single thread instead of opening multiple this vs that threads???


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,160 Inari


    Dex's Post on this topic - Quoted below:
    NakedDex wrote: »
    You'd swear 11.1V packs were portable nuclear fission reactors, the way some people think of them.

    Right, here's the breakdown.
    8.4V/9.6V NiCd packs perform exactly the same way as NiMH packs. The difference, for all intents and purposes, is the charge rate. The NiMH packs are designed to rapid charge, so a five hour charge becomes a thirty minute charge.
    There are slight differences in discharge rate too, but it's insignificant.
    The NiCd can only trickle-current charge and the NiMH can only high-current charge. This doesn't stop uncaring fools using rapid chargers on NiCD packs, and slow chargers on NiMH packs of course, but that's their own problem.

    LiPo packs are in use in far more devices than NiMH or NiCD. They're cheaper (to make, not necessarily to buy), lighter and provide more power relative to size. They're not as abhorrently fragile and prone to spontaneous and catastrophic explosion as some people portray. If they were, every drunken idiot with a phone would have third degree burns by now as it's the battery pack of choice for all digital electronics (alongside Li-ion for bigger applications).
    In airsoft, they also behave in virtually the same way as any other power pack option. A three-cell pack provides 7.4V and a four-cell pack provides 11.1V. Due to the ability to provide much higher current flow, the smaller 7.4V pack operates like a fully charged 8.4V conventional cell pack (not a 9.6V, that wouldn't calculate sensibly).
    The 11.1V pack provides less current than the 7.4V, due to the increased nominal voltage (y'see, it's about power, not current or voltage...). As such, there's less current on the cable so it's actually safer.
    Put in a MOSFET controller and it's down to mA of activation current on the trigger, and regulated flow to the motor - safer again. Now swap the wiring to the motor for a slightly higher gauge (silver wire in an airsoft application is the silliest thing I've ever heard as a supposed selling point, but it's the mugs who think it's great without understanding that I find amusing), something like 16/14AWG copper with a silicon insulation - higher gauge with lower current and better insulation means we've become even safer.
    While we're at it, let's change the battery connectors for low-resistance ones, like Deans connectors - lower resistance means less heat generated at the connection points, which makes us yet safer again.

    So while a LiPo user pulls the trigger on his/her AEG and sends about 20mA through the trigger, down large CSA wiring with improved connectors to send a clean and regulated flow of power to the motor, the NiCd/NiMH user - that's you - sends a spike current of about 35-55A (depending on the pack and gearbox) across small trigger contacts, down a small cable directly to the motor.

    In effect, LiPo is the much safer and more controlled option, even on 11.1V. Whether the gears/piston wear faster is entirely up to whether you play with the trigger taped on and the fire selector welded to Auto, or whether you're willing to make a few minor changes to your rifle to allow it to happen.

    Not to generalise, but the majority of LiPo users actually choose LiPo because they fire on semi most of the time and couple the pack with high torque motors and MOSFETs to enhance trigger response. It's the numpties with Stubby Killers and/or boxmags who are going to wear down gearboxes.
    In short, it's not the pack that determines your rifle's life span, it's your method of using it and how good the parts were in the first place (in the case of APS: rubbish... just to drag this on topic).

    I think this pretty much covers the whole LiPo V NiMh topic, but I'll add what I believe:

    Lipo is newer and more efficient technology. Airsofters are primitive. We fear new things. RC enthusiasts have been using Lipo batteries for years, and pretty much all electrical devices use Lipo batteries. They are superior in every way. More power, higher discharge rates, less weight and smaller overall size. The one trade off? More volatile when things go...pearshaped.

    There is a small bit more hassle in charging them (very minuscule), and beyond that if you're ramping up the power you just need to make sure your gearbox can handle it (preferably good strong gears that are well shimmed, a good motor, strong & durable piston modified to stop pre-engagement, and a MOSFET to elongate the lifespan of said gun).

    I use NiMh batteries in the vast majority of my guns, because there's enough space, they do the job, and I have a lot of batteries. I use Lipo's in guns where there is sweet FA space (*cough* ICS Sig 552 *cough*).

    The way I personally look at it is, unless I need more power, or smaller battery size, then NiMh will do the job. But Lipo shouldn't be feared...just merely acknowledged that you need to be a little more caring with your batteries


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭ Leftyflip


    I've had many batteries, lipo and nimh/nicd. And I've had more nimh/nicd batts pack in that I have lipos. 3 "normal batteries" have burnt out or fried, where as I've only ever had 1 lipo fry, which was when I accidentally shorted it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,005 NakedDex


    And, for the record, NiCd and NiMH packs are prone to something called "thermal runaway" if they're charged/connected improperly. Let me tell you, that's a pretty sodding volatile reaction too.


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