Big 4 accountancy firm question

oasis fan

Hi, I'm currently studying towards a masters in accountancy, my previous degree was in business studies, in which I obtained a 2.1.

One of the problems I believe I may have is that my leaving certificate was quite average, I only got 300 points. This stops me from applying to the big four accounting firms. Will they check your leaving cert or would you be safe enough exaggerating it? I feel it's highly unlikely I would get an interview considering my average leaving cert, anyone got any advice on the matter?

I suppose I was quite lazy when at school but when I went to college I worked hard and always got good marks, I find the leaving cert points thing a bit unfair.

I am quite tempted to alter my leaving cert as I believe if I don't I won't get any chance at an interview, however if they check this out and find out I've been misleading them, I'm screwed.

timo87

oasis fan wrote: »

Hi, I'm currently studying towards a masters in accountancy, my previous degree was in business studies, in which I obtained a 2.1.

One of the problems I believe I may have is that my leaving certificate was quite average, I only got 300 points. This stops me from applying to the big four accounting firms. Will they check your leaving cert or would you be safe enough exaggerating it? I feel it's highly unlikely I would get an interview considering my average leaving cert, anyone got any advice on the matter?

I suppose I was quite lazy when at school but when I went to college I worked hard and always got good marks, I find the leaving cert points thing a bit unfair.

I am quite tempted to alter my leaving cert as I believe if I don't I won't get any chance at an interview, however if they check this out and find out I've been misleading them, I'm screwed.

You would be caught out I'm afraid. They will take transcripts and copies of LC/college results before you start. They wouldn't take it to well if you lied on your application.

AFAIK some of the Big 4 put a larger weight on LC results than others. I suppose with the standard of applicant they are getting at the moment, where all will probably have at least 2.1 degree's it is another way of setting people apart, whether you think that's fair or not.

You have obviously improved dramtically since then, so you could highlight that in your application, ie rather than hiding your lc result you could turn it into a positive on your application.

I'd say contact hr in the firms you are applying to and ask them how much weight do they put on LC results, and if they have a basic minimum requirement.

The fact that you are doing a masters may compensate for not doing as well in the LC.

You would really have to find out from a hr person though as they are the ones who go through the applications.

oasis fan

timo87 wrote: »

You would be caught out I'm afraid. They will take transcripts and copies of LC/college results before you start. They wouldn't take it to well if you lied on your application.

AFAIK some of the Big 4 put a larger weight on LC results than others. I suppose with the standard of applicant they are getting at the moment, where all will probably have at least 2.1 degree's it is another way of setting people apart, whether you think that's fair or not.

You have obviously improved dramtically since then, so you could highlight that in your application, ie rather than hiding your lc result you could turn it into a positive on your application.

I'd say contact hr in the firms you are applying to and ask them how much weight do they put on LC results, and if they have a basic minimum requirement.

The fact that you are doing a masters may compensate for not doing as well in the LC.

You would really have to find out from a hr person though as they are the ones who go through the applications.

Thanks for the information.

oasis fan

oasis fan wrote: »

Thanks for the information.

Also would they generally check school attendance records if you said you missed alot of time through sickness etc?

pauldoo

i know KPMG use leaving cert results as quick way of getting rid of candidates.


other big four dont, i had a fairly poor leaving cert but still got in

Dont alter results, a friend of mine did it working for AIB, he got the job, was doin well, when they offered him a new contract they checked it out and then they fired him and had security escort him from the premises in front of everyone

oasis fan

pauldoo wrote: »

i know KPMG use leaving cert results as quick way of getting rid of candidates.


other big four dont, i had a fairly poor leaving cert but still got in

Dont alter results, a friend of mine did it working for AIB, he got the job, was doin well, when they offered him a new contract they checked it out and then they fired him and had security escort him from the premises in front of everyone

How poor a leaving was it?

I only got 290 points, down to nothing else than pure laziness to be honest. When I went to college, I actually worked reasonably hard on all of my course work and had a 60% avg the whole way through. I just think it's a very unfair method of segregating those who are good for a job than those who are not. I never thought back then that it would limit so much of my opportunities in the future.

Is there anything you guys can recommend to cater for this shortcoming in an application. I don't really have any relevant work experience either.

Pawwed Rig

To be honest they probably won't even tell you why they are rejecting your application. Last year they (at least 1 B4) were looking for a min of 420 points. They never asked for transcripts though.
There are so many applicants that they want to reduce them as quickly as possible. Unfortunately for you the best way to do that is to base it on previous results because previous results are seen as a good indicator of future performance. In fact the whole interview process is based on this. I got in by the skin of my teeth with 390 points. But that was with a few years work experience. They initially rejected my application based on leaving cert results.

oasis fan

Oh well, that's depressing.

Is accountancy pretty much a closed shop in terms of an average leaving cert/no relevant work experience, even in the case of the medium sized and smaller firms?

cson

oasis fan wrote: »

Oh well, that's depressing.

Is accountancy pretty much a closed shop in terms of an average leaving cert/no relevant work experience, even in the case of the medium sized and smaller firms?

Not a closed shop but less intake and more grads looking for jobs means it's pretty much an employers market out there right now. You're competing with grads from non business and accounting disciplines too such is the paucity of jobs in this country.

Jim2007

oasis fan wrote: »

I am quite tempted to alter my leaving cert as I believe if I don't I won't get any chance at an interview, however if they check this out and find out I've been misleading them, I'm screwed.

I have no doubt that you will get caught at some point doing this, because with true auditing zeal, they will want to see original certs and all that. Depending on who late it is in the process this is, it may cost you much more than just the job! If they have to break a training contract, then they will be obliged to explain to the Institute the reason for doing so, because it goes to character.. and that could mean that you will find it very difficult to get another position because the Institute will not be too excited about registering another contract with you.

I know this may come as a surprise to some people, but most accountants place great store on character, they are putting you into a position of great responsibility and the last thing they want is someone who fudges numbers!!!

Seriously, you'd be better to land a position in one of the mid level accounting firms than end up in that kind of mess. The big 4 are always looking for newly qualifieds, so there is always the opportunity to join them later if you still want the big 4 thing.

Jim (Switzerland)

Jim2007

oasis fan wrote: »

Also would they generally check school attendance records if you said you missed alot of time through sickness etc?

I doubt it, but they might wonder if you have the stamina to take on a training contract - the hours are long and the study is also heavy going.....

I know you are only starting out, but you need to realize that as interviewers we've heard it all before and while we expect you to stretch the truth, if you are caught out on a deliberate falsehood, it's curtains for you.

At the end of the day honesty is the best policy, it is a lot easier to deal with in the long run. And if you are going to tell falsehoods, then you better have a great memory - where I work we give one day off for the death of a close relative and I once had an employee tell me that she needed time off as her granny had just died, the only problem with this story was that it was the third granny!!!!

Jim (Switzerland)

Pandoras Twist

Low leaving certificate points does not rule out Big 4 Applications. Ernst & Young have an area where you can explain your low leaving cert results. (I didn't meet their maths requirement, they still offered me an interview which I refused as I had already gotten other offers).

They will also look at your college results more than your Leaving Cert results. If you're getting all A's in accounting etc they're not going to refuse you an interview based on your Leaving Cert.

Ring the HR departments of any firm you are applying to. Explain your situation. Ask them what they would advise. Don't just not apply because you think there's no point.

GR3YFOXXX

Ive just joined KPMG in Belfast and I had to give over the original copy of my A level results. If you get caught editing your marks then you'll be booted out and you'll never be admitted into another professional body. There are ethics codes that are fundamental to the traditional professions like Law and Accountancy.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on your LC results. Don't lie about them.

yesman2000

Just a quick question as regards presenting leaving cert results on CV's. I repeated my LC, should i stipulate this on my CV.i did below average the first time around and quite well the second time around, any relevance?. Thanks for any advice.

LightningBolt

You applied to college using your second set of results, use those results on your application.

maninblack

I've a pretty crappy LC (330) but a high 2.1 degree and a 2.1 all throughout my undergrad. Applied to the Top 4 last year. Got an interview with EY, made it to the partner interview, but he pulled me up on the LC results; he wasn't impressed and I was rejected soon after.

I'm re-applying to the top 4 again this year. This time I've a high 2.1 Masters with all 2.1's and 1sts and CAP2s in the bag. Hoping to god its enough to at least grant me an interview! Although I wouldn't be surprised if KPMG still don't wanna know

Pawwed Rig

yesman2000 wrote: »

Just a quick question as regards presenting leaving cert results on CV's. I repeated my LC, should i stipulate this on my CV.i did below average the first time around and quite well the second time around, any relevance?. Thanks for any advice.

I agree with Lightning Bolt. Your first set of results are supeceded by the repeat so list the better set on any (all) applcations. If asked about why you repeated you can sell yourself very positively by saying you didn't quite get what you wanted so tried again. It will be seen as positive that you didn't give up etc etc. Best of luck

Pawwed Rig

maninblack wrote: »

I've a pretty crappy LC (330) but a high 2.1 degree and a 2.1 all throughout my undergrad. Applied to the Top 4 last year. Got an interview with EY, made it to the partner interview, but he pulled me up on the LC results; he wasn't impressed and I was rejected soon after.

I'm re-applying to the top 4 again this year. This time I've a high 2.1 Masters with all 2.1's and 1sts and CAP2s in the bag. Hoping to god its enough to at least grant me an interview! Although I wouldn't be surprised if KPMG still don't wanna know

The problem is that they eliminate everyone who doesn't meet minimum criteria which last year was 420 points. E&Y seem to be the only ones of the Big 4 (and next 2) that will overlook the minimum criteria in certain circumstances.
Be aware that HR in these firms do not have the final word in the hiring. It is all about the partner interview. I think if you need to seek advice on how to answer about your LC results if put in the same position again in a partner interview again. If you can put a positive slant on it you have a good chance of getting through it

maninblack

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The problem is that they eliminate everyone who doesn't meet minimum criteria which last year was 420 points. E&Y seem to be the only ones of the Big 4 (and next 2) that will overlook the minimum criteria in certain circumstances.
Be aware that HR in these firms do not have the final word in the hiring. It is all about the partner interview. I think if you need to seek advice on how to answer about your LC results if put in the same position again in a partner interview again. If you can put a positive slant on it you have a good chance of getting through it

Yeah I think I was too honest last year; I just said I made a mess of the LC but got my head down when I got into college etc.

This year I'm going to say I was dying sick during the LC. Gotta tell them what they wanna hear I guess

Carlow52

oasis fan wrote: »

Hi, I'm currently studying towards a masters in accountancy, my previous degree was in business studies, in which I obtained a 2.1.

One of the problems I believe I may have is that my leaving certificate was quite average, I only got 300 points. This stops me from applying to the big four accounting firms. Will they check your leaving cert or would you be safe enough exaggerating it? I feel it's highly unlikely I would get an interview considering my average leaving cert, anyone got any advice on the matter?

I suppose I was quite lazy when at school but when I went to college I worked hard and always got good marks, I find the leaving cert points thing a bit unfair.

I am quite tempted to alter my leaving cert as I believe if I don't I won't get any chance at an interview, however if they check this out and find out I've been misleading them, I'm screwed.

Am I reading this right?
The item under consideration here is to falsify your leaving cert results.

If this is under active consideration then as a country we are truly screwed.

If you get employed , say as an accountant, what will be next for 'altering'?
Payroll, customer accounts....

Jim2007

maninblack wrote: »

This year I'm going to say I was dying sick during the LC. Gotta tell them what they wanna hear I guess

Do you really think they have not heard it all before! People don't like to be told a lot of nonsense, especially when they have a good idea that it is not true. This kind of approach can do you more damage than good.

Only this morning I was on a panel interview and the candidate had a couple of gaps in her resume - and I asked her straight out "What is the story with these gaps?" She proceeded to give a very good reason for the situation she found herself in. That answer alone moved her from fourth place ranking before the interview to now been one of two remaining contenders for the position.

Believe me when you are trying to find someone you are going to put into a position of trust, people who tell untruths is going to be very far down the list.

Jim.

ted2767

Jim2007 wrote: »

maninblack wrote: »

This year I'm going to say I was dying sick during the LC. Gotta tell them what they wanna hear I guess

Do you really think they have not heard it all before! People don't like to be told a lot of nonsense, especially when they have a good idea that it is not true. This kind of approach can do you more damage than good.

Only this morning I was on a panel interview and the candidate had a couple of gaps in her resume - and I asked her straight out "What is the story with these gaps?" She proceeded to give a very good reason for the situation she found herself in. That answer alone moved her from fourth place ranking before the interview to now been one of two remaining contenders for the position.

Believe me when you are trying to find someone you are going to put into a position of trust, people who tell untruths is going to be very far down the list.

Jim.

I agree with that 100%.
Don't try to over embellish things or you will be caught out instead make the most of what you have.