Patent on software?

httpete

Is it possible to patent software or are you basically wide open to having your application copied the moment you release it?

Hobbes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent#Europe

Alternatively speak to a Patent lawyer. Some things to be aware.

1. The Patent (if issued) allows you to charge (license) people for using your idea.
2. If you made your invention public domain, it can't be patented by someone else. But at the same time you can't charge people for implementing it.
3. It costs a lot of money to file a patent ($15K+). Also a lot of time (5 years average).

httpete

I would like to speak to a patent officer but I have zero cash.

Every single type of application out there, you will find multiple different products that provide the same functionality. From operating systems to music/video players, databases, word processors, games, etc.... so it seems to me that there is no protection if you come up with a new application.

So should I just forget about patenting any software I come up with that breaks new ground?

FSL

No, just find a way to ensure only genuine copies from yourself will run. For example you could set it up so that the user had to have a unique usb key attached to the computer the whole time the software was running. You then supply both the software and the physical key.

httpete

FSL wrote: »

No, just find a way to ensure only genuine copies from yourself will run. For example you could set it up so that the user had to have a unique usb key attached to the computer the whole time the software was running. You then supply both the software and the physical key.

Piracy is another concern but not what Im asking about here. Im asking about other companies coming along and ripping off your idea and bringing out an application with the same functionality.

Hobbes

The other alternative is patent firms. Who will buy the idea. They pay you (probably very little).

fergalr

As a completely long shot, are you trying to build one of these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_agent#User_agents_.28personal_agents.29



Its very hard to come up with something that hasn't been conceived before.
Its unlikely you need a patent. It costs money, and more importantly time, and there's only a limited amount of protection they give anyway.

Its generally better to just focus on executing on your idea, and seeing if its actually something worthwhile.

Maybe you are the exception, but unless you are working in a very specialised, very high tech field, where you've made a new breakthrough that will be commercially relevant, you probably want to spend your effort more in the direction of getting something off the ground.

Startup dogma out there currently is that ideas are worth very little, and execution is where its at.
I dont think its quite as black and white as that; but there's something to that line of thinking.

httpete

fergalr wrote: »

As a completely long shot, are you trying to build one of these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_agent#User_agents_.28personal_agents.29

Nope.

Its very hard to come up with something that hasn't been conceived before.
Its unlikely you need a patent. It costs money, and more importantly time, and there's only a limited amount of protection they give anyway.

Its generally better to just focus on executing on your idea, and seeing if its actually something worthwhile.

Maybe you are the exception, but unless you are working in a very specialised, very high tech field, where you've made a new breakthrough that will be commercially relevant, you probably want to spend your effort more in the direction of getting something off the ground.

Startup dogma out there currently is that ideas are worth very little, and execution is where its at.
I dont think its quite as black and white as that; but there's something to that line of thinking.

It's just a pisser knowing that when I eventually do realise my application it will be no time before another company takes the idea and runs with it, and most likely will do a better job considering they will have a team whereas I am a solo operation.

I suppose that's just the hard truth of life in the software industry.

Ludo

Care to give us a sneak peek as to what it is? We won't tell anyone...honest

Evil Phil

Getting a software patent is a difficult task in Europe, it's easier in the States. Even so your idea has to be both novel (i.e. not thought of before) and non-obvious, and that doesn't stop somebody from improving on your idea and patenting the improvement.

Software is generally protected by international copyright laws, and is regarded as literature as it's written text. This applies to both source code and object (compiled) code. Yes, it sounds weird but it's true.

What you could do, seeing as you've a killer app idea, is go to one of the incubation programs like DIT's Hot House which has incubated companies like Decisions for Heroes. They'll give you the *ompf* you need when you start out on your own, you'll be able to build a team from there.

FSL

httpete wrote: »

Nope.



It's just a pisser knowing that when I eventually do realise my application it will be no time before another company takes the idea and runs with it, and most likely will do a better job considering they will have a team whereas I am a solo operation.

I suppose that's just the hard truth of life in the software industry.

Do you or anybody for that matter know of an application for which a better or cheaper alternative has never been produced? That's called progress.

If you are first in the market place with a really good application which improves productivity and profitability then you will be successful. If you have version two ready and are working on version three when you launch your initial offering then you stand a good chance of staying ahead of the competition.

fergalr

httpete wrote: »

Nope.



It's just a pisser knowing that when I eventually do realise my application it will be no time before another company takes the idea and runs with it, and most likely will do a better job considering they will have a team whereas I am a solo operation.

I suppose that's just the hard truth of life in the software industry.

Well, I don't know.

I'm not trying to be mean, but the much more likely thing is that your idea isn't that good, in and of itself. And its honestly pretty unlikely that you've got a really original world changing idea. Often ideas arise in multiple places, at the same time.

Fleshing it out, making it work, executing on it, that's where a lot of the value is created.
As a result, it makes sense that that's where most of the reward should be.


Its basically impossible to build an app, while keeping it secret. You almost always need to change what you are building - sometimes a lot - in response to field trials, and feedback from users.

Even if you could protect your business idea some how, what you end up with probably wouldn't be what you protected.


Again, maybe you have a very valuable idea, or figured something very unusual out; but, a priori, you should realize that thats much less likely than people usually think.


Finally, its not as bad as you think.
If you've got an idea that was hard to come up with, its probably hard to clone.

You can get a lot of advantage by being first in a space; round up investment while the space is young; learn lots about the space while others aren't interested in it, raise funding because your an expert, when others are just trying to enter, and build knowledge.

Also, you say you are a solo operation; that can be leveraged into a success; fast decision making, and agility, for a start.



But, without trying to labour a point, its much more likely that what you have isn't very valuable, and will become more valuable when you disclose it and discuss it with people, not less.

Or you might even realize its rubbish; but either way, thats more valuable to you than being convinced you have a good idea, that isn't that good.

Best of luck.

komodosp

I can't imagine how a software patent could be enforced. Does it mean no one else can write an application which does the same functionality? How are you going to stop them? Unlike say a machine which requires factories and stuff that can be shut down, for software it only has to be written once and then uploaded everywhere.

They're finding it difficult enough to enforce copyright law (or even convince many people that it's justifiable!), how would they enforce a patent?

fergalr

komodosp wrote: »

I can't imagine how a software patent could be enforced.

You've just got to hit google news for 'software patent'. They are being well enforced at the moment, and its a big story.

(fwiw, I think software patents, in general, are teh bad).

komodosp wrote: »

Does it mean no one else can write an application which does the same functionality? How are you going to stop them? Unlike say a machine which requires factories and stuff that can be shut down, for software it only has to be written once and then uploaded everywhere.

People are (generally) not suing individual developers for violating software patents. Instead, they are suing bigger targets, like companies, or groups or organisations (eg maybe an open source development project)

The courts can order infringing people or projects to stop infringing, and sometimes assess big damages.

That can't prevent you typing something into your editor, but that doesn't mean the patents can't be enforced.

komodosp wrote: »

They're finding it difficult enough to enforce copyright law (or even convince many people that it's justifiable!), how would they enforce a patent?

Copyright law is on the books in pretty much every nation. To an extent, they have convinced the only people that matter, that it is justifiable. Furthermore, with the recent EU extension to the period of time copyright persists for (in certain cases) it seems like its getting more legal traction, not less.
Copyrights are being enforced in Ireland at the moment. People are paying damages for sharing music online.

Speaking personally, I don't think this is good as such. I think there needs to be a reassessment of how we want to handle copyright, as a society, and that needs to be reflected in a new legal framework. But that isn't happening.

Again, on patents, the enforcement focuses on big and easy targets.
But, make no mistake, small developers - for example on the App Store, with Lodsys, currently - can and sometimes do turn into targets, too.