Cost of redrawing plans?

house2build

Just wondering how much it should cost to have plans redrawn with slight alterations or is this even possible?
We have plans for a house already but they are out of date so we need to resubmit them. We are willing to put the planning permission in ourselves
but we would like to make some slight alterations such as putting a room in the attic and changing some rooms around, moving ensuites, doors etc.
Have been in contact with an architect but thy are quoting us the full price as if we are starting from scratch.

BryanF

house2build wrote: »

Just wondering how much it should cost to have plans redrawn with slight alterations or is this even possible?
We have plans for a house already but they are out of date so we need to resubmit them. We are willing to put the planning permission in ourselves
but we would like to make some slight alterations such as putting a room in the attic and changing some rooms around, moving ensuites, doors etc.
Have been in contact with an architect but thy are quoting us the full price as if we are starting from scratch.

REDRAW: you could get someone to give you a reasonable fixed price here..
the problem is you've just told us there's more to it than a redraw:) you may be 'willing' to submit yourself but someone's got to make sure your drawings and paperwork are in-order to current building regs and council requirements:)..
may i ask why you've not mentioned your previous arch?

mickdw

Im sure your original architect would do this for a suitable fee.
When you say your plans are out of date, what are you referring to?

house2build

There were two houses granted permission back in 2004 so the five years that the planning permission lasts has expired so we have to reapply. (The other house is now built).

mickdw

Ah right, so you got the site with plans & planning granted.
Did you try the people who did the plans originally? They will have electronic versions of the drawings and should be able to do this cheaper for you. If they are not in business now, well that is a different situation.
Are you aware that there may well be numerous problems with a new application that didnt apply back in 2004. If this is a rural house, getting approval for a ewage system will possibly be more difficult as well as possible development plan changes in relation to housing need, house design, site access etc.
What county?

BryanF

house2build wrote: »

There were two houses granted permission back in 2004 so the five years that the planning permission lasts has expired so we have to reapply. (The other house is now built).

ah so the plot thickens

1. so the two house part of the one application?
2. you haven't answered my question regarding the original arch, did you ask him to do it and what did he say?
3. also is the original engineer that did the percolation test and signed-off on the other houses treatment unit available, as this will be an issue with the LA engineers.
4. this architect that is quoting you 'full price', did he go through all the issues above and/or raise any other issues with you when giving you a price?
5. is the other house built exactly to original planning?

sydthebeat

house2build wrote: »

Just wondering how much it should cost to have plans redrawn with slight alterations or is this even possible?
We have plans for a house already but they are out of date so we need to resubmit them. We are willing to put the planning permission in ourselves
but we would like to make some slight alterations such as putting a room in the attic and changing some rooms around, moving ensuites, doors etc.
Have been in contact with an architect but thy are quoting us the full price as if we are starting from scratch.

what you are describing is pretty much a job that needs to be done "from scratch".
If its not the original architect, then they new one will have to 'draw up' the original plans with your changes. they will also have to do their own site layout plan, topographical survey etc.
Its very possible that the councils policies have significantly changed in the 6/7 years since that application was first prepared.

Dublin_Mom

to the OP, I have experienced a similar situation to yours.
We got pp thru in 2000, but didnt act on it then and now want to resubmit with a few changes.

I have spoken with 3 architects now. Only one guy was going to give us any kind of discount for the fact that we had existing plans so we weren't starting from scratch. One architect even insisted that his 'people' would redo the site survey 'in case something was missed first time around'
Needless to say I lost all credibility in him instantly.

Original architect has retired so cannot go back to him.

I realise that redraw does involve extra work and yes there are a few changes we would like to have made. And yes I think the council possibly want extra things submitted versus how it was done in 2000. But we want the interior layout left the same and the site survey is just as it was (nothing has been 'missed' I am sure)

I am not looking for this to be done for nothing but nor do I want to feel I am being fleeced. From what I have seen architect fees vary widely and the guys working for companies seem less interested in negotiating. But maybe they are just the individuals I have come across.

If there is anyone out there (in Dublin) interested in talking to me about this please pm me. At this stage I am getting tired meeting with architects and spelling out what we need, and them coming back with expensive proposals that are not what we need.

I juat need 1 guy who will tell me upfront what he charges and will take what we need on board. Is this too much to ask? I am beginning to think it is....

sydthebeat

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

. One architect even insisted that his 'people' would redo the site survey 'in case something was missed first time around'
Needless to say I lost all credibility in him instantly.

it is the correct professional principle not to accept what others say as being exactly correct. Any good professional will satisfy themselves as to what the situation is. It may be a case of 'his people' bringing the survey on site and actually checking the levels, to ensure their accuracy. But if your going to do that, you might as well take new levels yourself and ensure the levels you need are taken. In all due respect to the poster, just because 'you' are satisfied that the levels are correct, does not excuse the architect from being professional and principled.

archtech

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

to the OP, I have experienced a similar situation to yours.
We got pp thru in 2000, but didnt act on it then and now want to resubmit with a few changes.

I have spoken with 3 architects now. Only one guy was going to give us any kind of discount for the fact that we had existing plans so we weren't starting from scratch. One architect even insisted that his 'people' would redo the site survey 'in case something was missed first time around'
Needless to say I lost all credibility in him instantly.

Original architect has retired so cannot go back to him.

I realise that redraw does involve extra work and yes there are a few changes we would like to have made. And yes I think the council possibly want extra things submitted versus how it was done in 2000. But we want the interior layout left the same and the site survey is just as it was (nothing has been 'missed' I am sure)

I am not looking for this to be done for nothing but nor do I want to feel I am being fleeced. From what I have seen architect fees vary widely and the guys working for companies seem less interested in negotiating. But maybe they are just the individuals I have come across.

If there is anyone out there (in Dublin) interested in talking to me about this please pm me. At this stage I am getting tired meeting with architects and spelling out what we need, and them coming back with expensive proposals that are not what we need.

I juat need 1 guy who will tell me upfront what he charges and will take what we need on board. Is this too much to ask? I am beginning to think it is....

In all fairness a lot has changed within the planning process in the last 11 years including Planning policy in most counties and the Planning Regulations themselves which includes the level of detail required for a planning application.

In many instances a house that received planning permission in 2000, would not received it today, on the design.

Its almost safe to assume that you will need a new site suitability test for the site also, as SR 6 1991 would not achieve current standards.

In terms of the site survey, hedges would have grown in the meantime, adjoining boundaries may have altered due to new houses etc and site lines have become more critical, so the accuracy of the roadside boundary surveys are often now more important. It may not require a total new survey, however the survey certainly needs to be looked at. Furthermore was the orgional survey a digital survey or a series of spot levels drawn on a scaled map.

You also have to take into consideration the updated building regulations.It is quiet possible that the house may need to be redesigned to ensure compliance with Part L of the building regulations.

Without looking at the project , it is hard to say that if and what level of discount, if any one could apply.

BryanF

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

t
I realise that redraw does involve extra work and yes there are a few changes we would like to have made. And yes I think the council possibly want extra things submitted versus how it was done in 2000.

I'm interested to know what was the original fees were and what your being quoted 11 years on?

I do think you under estimate how much more involved an application may be, since you last dealt with the bureaucrats:)

your comments re the survey are interesting, have you considered/or has it been suggested to you that the original survey is no longer adequate.for instance if there is a peculation test required i guarantee that the original will not be accepted...

DOCARCH

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

One architect even insisted that his 'people' would redo the site survey 'in case something was missed first time around'
Needless to say I lost all credibility in him instantly.

Just an anecdote on this point.

I was approached by a client to look after the tender and construction stages of a project for 3 townhouses on a corner site in Dublin. The client already had planning permission for the houses, done by another 'architect' at a rock bottom price (well not really an architcet in anyway shape or form - he was the guy who featured in a Prime Time special!).

I insisted on a re-measure of the site and it turned out the orignal 'architect' had fudged entire site, making the site approx. 2 metres wider than it actually was! The houses, as granted permisson, simply would not fit on the the way they were designed.

So, back to the drawing board (literally) - new design - new planning permission! Painful lesson learnt by client.

Dublin_Mom

sydthebeat wrote: »

it is the correct professional principle not to accept what others say as being exactly correct. Any good professional will satisfy themselves as to what the situation is. It may be a case of 'his people' bringing the survey on site and actually checking the levels, to ensure their accuracy. But if your going to do that, you might as well take new levels yourself and ensure the levels you need are taken. In all due respect to the poster, just because 'you' are satisfied that the levels are correct, does not excuse the architect from being professional and principled.

Don't kid yourself, it has darn all to do with a professional principle and much more to do with the greedy desire to extract as much cash as possible out of the punter.

sydthebeat

:rolleyes:

in view of the economic climate which exists in architecture right now, that makes no sense at all. After all, he didnt get the job did he??

f9710145

I'm not an architect but think if I was I wouldn't want to just trust someone else's work was up to scratch and put my name on something that I have no reason to believe is up to my standards. E.g. we are buying a house with planning permission for an extension. We'd like to either make a small change to it (one that wouldn't require resubmission) or resubmit with some more major changes. If we go with resubmission we'll be seeking a new architect and I would assume drawings would be done from scratch, in fact I'd be insisting upon it, for the same reason that I'd be going to someone new - original architect seemed to think the front of the house was 1m wider than the back, he has room measurements that are up to 50cm out from what they actually are (we measured them ourselves plus the drawings don't make sense, would be impossible for his measuremnets to be correct). Another architect would be mad to add his name to a submission with those docs.

Mellor

house2build wrote: »

Just wondering how much it should cost to have plans redrawn with slight alterations or is this even possible?
We have plans for a house already but they are out of date so we need to resubmit them. We are willing to put the planning permission in ourselves
but we would like to make some slight alterations such as putting a room in the attic and changing some rooms around, moving ensuites, doors etc.
Have been in contact with an architect but thy are quoting us the full price as if we are starting from scratch.

The above posters are correct, and the plans may not be too useful for planning. There have been many changes and are now new requirements.

However, to answer your questions, it is possible to redraw and make these changes and it wouldn't be expensive.
The exact cost will depend on what format the current plans are in (or you can get them in).
If they are CAD plans, it will be the least work, a electronic PDF made directly from CAD the next least, and a paper plan or a scan the most work.
The price will be related to the work involved, most likely only a few hundred.

If won't be a problem to get somebody to make these changes and these changes only. But bare in mind, that after that they walk away snd you are on your own.

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

Don't kid yourself, it has darn all to do with a professional principle and much more to do with the greedy desire to extract as much cash as possible out of the punter.

Dublin_Mom, i think its fair to say you know little of the process. And with all due respect, the above comment is quite ignorant.
There have already been professionals on this thread telling you thats how the best way to operate. You've also heard of example of what can happen if you trust the previous drawings.

RKQ

DOCARCH wrote: »

. The client already had planning permission for the houses, done by another 'architect' at a rock bottom price (well not really an architcet in anyway shape or form - he was the guy who featured in a Prime Time special!).

For those not familiar, the guy on the Primetime special was the only individual featured in the programme. He was a conman and was convicted in the UK. Its a pity the Irish Authorities did not prosecute this individual, as his activities were clearly fraud.

This British Citizen is no longer charging 3k for planning in Dublin suburbs. Primetime exposed this individual but no other people were featured in the programme. No Irish agents were featured.

The lesson to learn is always get 3 quotes, query "Naval Architects" doing Planning permissions and of course if a fee or service sounds too good to be true then it probably is - buyer beware!

A professional will always check the existing site and structure and ensure he / she has an accurate survey. I'd never believe that someone else's drawing was correct - I'd have to check it.

OP there have been huge changes to the Building Regs ( particularly TGDoc L) since you were granted permission. Cavity widths have had to change to accommodate extra insulation. Your proposed attic conversion may require a Structural Engineers input.

Dublin_Mom

Mellor wrote: »

The above posters are correct, and the plans may not be too useful for planning. There have been many changes and are now new requirements.

However, to answer your questions, it is possible to redraw and make these changes and it wouldn't be expensive.
The exact cost will depend on what format the current plans are in (or you can get them in).
If they are CAD plans, it will be the least work, a electronic PDF made directly from CAD the next least, and a paper plan or a scan the most work.
The price will be related to the work involved, most likely only a few hundred.

If won't be a problem to get somebody to make these changes and these changes only. But bare in mind, that after that they walk away snd you are on your own.



Dublin_Mom, i think its fair to say you know little of the process. And with all due respect, the above comment is quite ignorant.
There have already been professionals on this thread telling you thats how the best way to operate. You've also heard of example of what can happen if you trust the previous drawings.

I think its fair to say you and other have a vested interest in disputing my reports of money grabbing architects. And without knowing all of the details in my case, how can you 'assume' I know little of the process?

BryanF

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

[/B]

I think its fair to say you and other have a vested interest in disputing my reports of money grabbing architects. And without knowing all of the details in my case, how can you 'assume' I know little of the process?

can you maybe give us a little of your knowledge/ experience of money grabbing architects, also can you also answer my last question. thanks

BryanF wrote: »

I'm interested to know what was the original fees were and what your being quoted 11 years on?

Mellor

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

[/B]

I think its fair to say you and other have a vested interest in disputing my reports of money grabbing architects. And without knowing all of the details in my case, how can you 'assume' I know little of the process?

Why would it be fair to say I have a vested interest.
Excuse me, but do you know me or anything about me?


I said you little of the process as your comments above and previously have shown that. It's a lot more than "possibly want extra things submitted".
You keep talking about money grabbing, yet haven't provided an example of a fee. Maybe the 3 you spoke to were over charging, maybe your idea of a reasonable price is way off. But either way, judging a whole industry on 3 people is ridiculous.

BryanF

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

to the OP, I have experienced a similar situation to yours.
We got pp thru in 2000, but didnt act on it then and now want to resubmit with a few changes.

I have spoken with 3 architects now. Only one guy was going to give us any kind of discount for the fact that we had existing plans so we weren't starting from scratch. One architect even insisted that his 'people' would redo the site survey 'in case something was missed first time around'
Needless to say I lost all credibility in him instantly.

Original architect has retired so cannot go back to him.

I realise that redraw does involve extra work and yes there are a few changes we would like to have made. And yes I think the council possibly want extra things submitted versus how it was done in 2000. But we want the interior layout left the same and the site survey is just as it was (nothing has been 'missed' I am sure)

I am not looking for this to be done for nothing but nor do I want to feel I am being fleeced. From what I have seen architect fees vary widely and the guys working for companies seem less interested in negotiating. But maybe they are just the individuals I have come across.

If there is anyone out there (in Dublin) interested in talking to me about this please pm me. At this stage I am getting tired meeting with architects and spelling out what we need, and them coming back with expensive proposals that are not what we need.

I juat need 1 guy who will tell me upfront what he charges and will take what we need on board. Is this too much to ask? I am beginning to think it is....

It's been almost two weeks since you were asked.... can can you comment on the fees or the circumstances of your architectural encounter

focus_mad

Dublin_Mom wrote: »

Don't kid yourself, it has darn all to do with a professional principle and much more to do with the greedy desire to extract as much cash as possible out of the punter.

I don't think that is a fair assumption.
The drawings will have the professional's name/company etc. on it.
Anything that I get asked to do for a client who already has plans, I will double check measurements as at the end of the day it will come back on me.

Might I also add that regarding the extraction of cash, you do pay for a good job. Cheap is not always the best value

wtlltw

Having read through this post I feel there is an assumption that clients feel they have paid for planning once and should get the altered planning done for next to nothing. Sadly, it doesn't work that way as other posters Havel mentioned no professional especially when PI is rising etc will put their name to another persons work (unless they have a contract in place stating they can't be held responsible)