once a day milking

keep going

considering doing next year for the whole year from the start.wondering any experience out there

sh1tstirrer

If you will have first calvers in the herd OAD doesn't suit them. You also need to have low cell counts to start milking OAD for complete lactation as cell counts will be higher.

jeff greene

Why? Just curious.

The thought has crossed my mind recently as I was offered a dairy farm 18 miles away by a relation, pretty much ready to go. OAD in that situation would be an idea but at home as it is now, no way. All everyone is preoccupied by is inputs and cutting costs but output is as important and maximizing milk sold per cow, per man, per Ha.

In any recent piece I read regarding the superlevy and ways of reducing milk , OAD is high on the list and I can't foresee any huge reduction in costs to make it up, fixed will be the same, will variable go down much? Will more cows need to be carried to fill the quota? From a labour point of view is brilliant though.

djmc

I tried it some years back due to labor shortage as i had another job
Even though you only have half the labor you get only half the milk
the milk yield falls way back scc goes up and you will still have the same silage and fertilizer costs.
Unless you are way over quota and want to dry off cows I wouldn't bother as there is no profit in it.

irishh_bob

djmc wrote: »

I tried it some years back due to labor shortage as i had another job
Even though you only have half the labor you get only half the milk
the milk yield falls way back scc goes up and you will still have the same silage and fertilizer costs.
Unless you are way over quota and want to dry off cows I wouldn't bother as there is no profit in it.

wouldnt agree at all

solids significantly rise so you get a higher price , at this time of year , cows are way passed thier peak so any reduction in volume is compensated by increased protein , cows eat less so you can extend the grazing season , savings are also made on electricity and its nice not having to milk in the evening either , OP , you should see no drawbacks whatsoever unless you have serious problems already with cell count

jeff greene

irishh_bob wrote: »

wouldnt agree at all

solids significantly rise so you get a higher price , at this time of year , cows are way passed thier peak so any reduction in volume is compensated by increased protein , cows eat less so you can extend the grazing season , savings are also made on electricity and its nice not having to milk in the evening either , OP , you should see no drawbacks whatsoever unless you have serious problems already with cell count

But that is his experience.

According to Jack Kennedy, at this time yield drops 3-4 kgs a day, which is significant at 35c/l plus. Will it be made up with the things you say?

Firstly, with once-a-day milking, there is a serious reduction in yield. Milk yield was reduced by 24pc compared to twice-daily milking. However, milk solids yield/cow was only back 17pc, due to higher constituents.

Rest can be read here

I would like to see an overall report on OAD, that includes its effects on fertility, scc and financial performance.

sh1tstirrer

irishh_bob wrote: »

cows eat less so you can extend the grazing season

Yes and no Bob as you need more cows when OAD milking.

irishh_bob

jeff greene wrote: »

But that is his experience.

According to Jack Kennedy, at this time yield drops 3-4 kgs a day, which is significant at 35c/l plus. Will it be made up with the things you say?

Rest can be read here

I would like to see an overall report on OAD, that includes its effects on fertility, scc and financial performance.

milk voume is reduced by 25% but cows eat less and you use less power , besdies , when your over quota , what difference does it make

jeff greene

irishh_bob wrote: »

milk voume is reduced by 25% but cows eat less and you use less power , besdies , when your over quota , what difference does it make

Forget quota for this discussion.

Could you take it further and milk cows every second day, less everything again:pac:

If you can increase production by 25% by simply utilizing existing cows and buildings by an evening milking. In my mind, that is pretty much free milk as the vast majority of the cost are there anyway.

As I said the overall picture is more important but hard to avoid that lost milk.

More readinghttp://www.dairynz.co.nz/file/fileid/33265

keep going

The main reason is i have a large number of heifers coming next year and despite planned culling around 30% i will still have too many cows for quota(wish i could forget it,jeff),25% too much.Now i wouldn,t mind selling them but dont think the market will be great and anyway i want to keep my no,s up for2015.our cows wouldn,t burst the jar /1100gls on maybe 200 kilos.also i graze land blocks away from the home so it may help simplify that.now in a quota free scene i wouldnt do it but this is where we are.i have worked fairly hard for a no of years and like the thought of being free in the evenings for a couple of years,i never get to see as many games as i like or other stuff i,d like to do.

C0N0R

Would you consider 16 hour intervals? I know of some people that do it out here and are still producing respectable enough solids.

funny man

Cows will peak on average 25% lower and should maintain that yield for 5 months approx, yields will vary. SCC will not be a problem if you cant manage it on TAD i suggest you don't go once a day. cmt all cows at 2 days calved and treat bad quarters and injected if quarter is swollen. Try to give 12 hour breaks to drive intakes and to check all cows. Milking will take longer. you should get away with roughly a quarter of the meal normally fed e.g.150 kg V 600kg. yard slurry and dirty water will be halved, same for dairy chemicals and teat spray. Cow condition will be excellent with be excellent as i often put some of my extreme holstiens on it purely to build condition and get them into calf, submission rate targets is 97% in 21 days and a non return rate of 75% and from what i've seen they get very close. Heifers have had the biggest benefit has they grow well and mature during first lactation (despite what others say heifers do work OAD). Good cows do very well on OAD.Grazing management would be a lot easier on a fragmented farm with long walks. The big one where all the money is made replacement rate should drop to around 10%-15% after year 1 allowing you to milk extra stock or to sell milk stock ( a hidden cost on most farms recycling,culling,etc.,). And finally it's not about filling your quota, it's all about making enough money for you/family with-out been killed working (lifestyle). OAD milking will reduce your work load especially if you have a fragmented farm and no/very little help.

jeff greene

funny man wrote: »

Cows will peak on average 25% lower and should maintain that yield for 5 months approx, yields will vary. SCC will not be a problem if you cant manage it on TAD i suggest you don't go once a day. cmt all cows at 2 days calved and treat bad quarters and injected if quarter is swollen. Try to give 12 hour breaks to drive intakes and to check all cows. Milking will take longer. you should get away with roughly a quarter of the meal normally fed e.g.150 kg V 600kg. yard slurry and dirty water will be halved, same for dairy chemicals and teat spray. Cow condition will be excellent with be excellent as i often put some of my extreme holstiens on it purely to build condition and get them into calf, submission rate targets is 97% in 21 days and a non return rate of 75% and from what i've seen they get very close. Heifers have had the biggest benefit has they grow well and mature during first lactation (despite what others say heifers do work OAD). Good cows do very well on OAD.Grazing management would be a lot easier on a fragmented farm with long walks. The big one where all the money is made replacement rate should drop to around 10%-15% after year 1 allowing you to milk extra stock or to sell milk stock ( a hidden cost on most farms recycling,culling,etc.,). And finally it's not about filling your quota, it's all about making enough money for you/family with-out been killed working (lifestyle). OAD milking will reduce your work load especially if you have a fragmented farm and no/very little help.

Exactly! The most important thing of all. Its always in my mind when I read about guys wanting to expand rapidly post 2015, the physical and logistical part of it, its effects on physical and mental health.

Not disputing what you say but can you include some references, I always try to in these discussions even if they're from newspapers. I may be wrong but the cows who would benefit the most, ie low CS and poor fertility 8000l holsteins aren't really suitable for OAD,

The reason Keep Going I said to forget quota for this discussion was i saw it was for next year. I see your situation, I would be similar tbh, have loads of heifers and watching the cows walk out this morning, not too many for voluntary culling, I'm a softie:rolleyes:. Hopefully the market will be decent anyway. If quotas were gone in the morning I would consider that farm 18miles away and put 40 cows on OAD and continue at home. Don't tell anyone but the idea of using Jersey even entered my mind when I was reading about it. You have good enough reasons to try it anyway, you won't know for sure until you see it on your own farm.

funny man

I wasn't getting at you about quotas but someone mentioned keeping more cows to fill quota, just shows some guys work from financials and others see quota as a target.
your idea on the out farm is excellent and is quite manageable and by using jersey/jeX shows that you mean business, using land available, rather than chasing land putting in infrastructure just cos everyone else is getting bigger (thats what is going on).

If your a top operator at TAD you will make OAD really work.

my advice sell all surpluss heifers 2015 is too far away.

irishh_bob

keep going wrote: »

The main reason is i have a large number of heifers coming next year and despite planned culling around 30% i will still have too many cows for quota(wish i could forget it,jeff),25% too much.Now i wouldn,t mind selling them but dont think the market will be great and anyway i want to keep my no,s up for2015.our cows wouldn,t burst the jar /1100gls on maybe 200 kilos.also i graze land blocks away from the home so it may help simplify that.now in a quota free scene i wouldnt do it but this is where we are.i have worked fairly hard for a no of years and like the thought of being free in the evenings for a couple of years,i never get to see as many games as i like or other stuff i,d like to do.

once a day milking is a great lifestyle , if you can live with the potential reduction in cash flow , id say go for it , the cows will get used to it , id have no fears from the animal wellfare point of view

whelan1

if you say you are going to do it for a year , would it be hard to get used to going back to twice a day after?

irishh_bob

jeff greene wrote: »

Exactly! The most important thing of all. Its always in my mind when I read about guys wanting to expand rapidly post 2015, the physical and logistical part of it, its effects on physical and mental health.

Not disputing what you say but can you include some references, I always try to in these discussions even if they're from newspapers. I may be wrong but the cows who would benefit the most, ie low CS and poor fertility 8000l holsteins aren't really suitable for OAD,

The reason Keep Going I said to forget quota for this discussion was i saw it was for next year. I see your situation, I would be similar tbh, have loads of heifers and watching the cows walk out this morning, not too many for voluntary culling, I'm a softie:rolleyes:. Hopefully the market will be decent anyway. If quotas were gone in the morning I would consider that farm 18miles away and put 40 cows on OAD and continue at home. Don't tell anyone but the idea of using Jersey even entered my mind when I was reading about it. You have good enough reasons to try it anyway, you won't know for sure until you see it on your own farm.

your quite correct in saying that high yielding holstiens are completley unsuitable for OAD , jersey cross or medium yielding fresian cows are the only animal for that system

jeff greene

irishh_bob wrote: »

your quite correct in saying that high yielding holstiens are completley unsuitable for OAD , jersey cross or medium yielding fresian cows are the only animal for that system

Surely negating its main advantage then of improved fertility. Those cows with good TAD management should be fine anyway. Thinking about it more today and some crude calculation on my phone, lets say yields of 5500litres, 25% drop = €440(1375@ 32c/l) gross output lost. Savings being mentioned of less chemicals, power( you'll be watching Home & Away instead so, same thing:pac:) are trivial really compared to that.

Herd of 100 cows x €440 over 300 days is €146 a day, for two hours work :eek: Hard to ignore that for lifestyle reasons I think and as a business it makes less sense again.

We all like to get away from the daily drudgery of milking from time to time but everyday? we'd be as lazy as beef and tillage farmers then:pac: I prefer a clean break anyway, a week away a few times a year. You'll always fine something to do when at home.

flatout11

why would you even consider OAD milking (unless you have quota problems) ?????? sure it cant stand to reason same ammount of cows producing less milk utilisating less grass just bit more fertile
what are you saving ????

keep going

thanks for replys.i suppose all im doing is thinking things out and putting the best strategy in place for the next couple of years.Personaly i think in a quota free scene the issues with nitrates,limited grazing platforms and maximising returns make OAD a non runner especially as i have a lot of rented land.However the main question i would have is will would there be long term consequnces of it when i return to TAD

irishh_bob

keep going wrote: »

thanks for replys.i suppose all im doing is thinking things out and putting the best strategy in place for the next couple of years.Personaly i think in a quota free scene the issues with nitrates,limited grazing platforms and maximising returns make OAD a non runner especially as i have a lot of rented land.However the main question i would have is will would there be long term consequnces of it when i return to TAD

every new lactation is a new begining so i doubt it would have any long term effects

Farfield

Irish Bob - are you once a day milking? You might have seen my thread on getting started (you may have replied) but as i work in a job during the day i am giving serious thought to getting going milking about 50-60 British Friesan cows - if i can find any good ones to buy. Cash flow is certainly not the overall aim for me, it is to enjoy the farming and still get a reasonable return.

My dairy adviser has told me no one he knows milks once a day and its a bad job and leads to bad mastitis. He would put me off, but it would fit in so well with my plans for now and maybe up the whole thing to twice a day in a couple of years when i have all up and going well and can maybe give up the job.

Whats your advice/thoughts?

whelan1

Farfield wrote: »

Irish Bob - are you once a day milking? You might have seen my thread on getting started (you may have replied) but as i work in a job during the day i am giving serious thought to getting going milking about 50-60 British Friesan cows - if i can find any good ones to buy. Cash flow is certainly not the overall aim for me, it is to enjoy the farming and still get a reasonable return.

My dairy adviser has told me no one he knows milks once a day and its a bad job and leads to bad mastitis. He would put me off, but it would fit in so well with my plans for now and maybe up the whole thing to twice a day in a couple of years when i have all up and going well and can maybe give up the job.

Whats your advice/thoughts?

is this the same teagasc guy that told you to milk simmentals?

Farfield

Thats the one alright!!

irishh_bob

Farfield wrote: »

Irish Bob - are you once a day milking? You might have seen my thread on getting started (you may have replied) but as i work in a job during the day i am giving serious thought to getting going milking about 50-60 British Friesan cows - if i can find any good ones to buy. Cash flow is certainly not the overall aim for me, it is to enjoy the farming and still get a reasonable return.

My dairy adviser has told me no one he knows milks once a day and its a bad job and leads to bad mastitis. He would put me off, but it would fit in so well with my plans for now and maybe up the whole thing to twice a day in a couple of years when i have all up and going well and can maybe give up the job.

Whats your advice/thoughts?

sure i dont even own my own herd of cows , have witnessed OAD for a while on the bros farm , from around end of october onwards and it seems to work fine untill drying off in mid december , never saw it done for an entire season

as for your advisor , im not knocking teagasc but they are a conservative bunch by nature , i think it would suit someone who wanted to continue working outside the farm gate , i know someone who wishes they had kept on milking while working by going the OAD route , this guy only had a small herd but he enjoyed it none the less , dairy cows will be well back in price next spring and the coming winter as the country is chronically over quota , your talking cull cow price and less if latest reports are anything to go by

Farfield

So - is any one on these boards actually milking once a day all season??

keep going

Farfield wrote: »

Irish Bob - are you once a day milking? You might have seen my thread on getting started (you may have replied) but as i work in a job during the day i am giving serious thought to getting going milking about 50-60 British Friesan cows - if i can find any good ones to buy. Cash flow is certainly not the overall aim for me, it is to enjoy the farming and still get a reasonable return.

My dairy adviser has told me no one he knows milks once a day and its a bad job and leads to bad mastitis. He would put me off, but it would fit in so well with my plans for now and maybe up the whole thing to twice a day in a couple of years when i have all up and going well and can maybe give up the job.

Whats your advice/thoughts?

what are your long term aims .what is your land base. what will you have to invest in. have you got money to invest

Enderol

http://www.cowtime.com.au/edit/QuickNotes/QUICKNOTE_1.4_VERSION_3.PDF

Just an interesting article above that I think explains quickly alot of the main points around once a day milking.

The mother told me yesterday she heard on the radio of a couple in macroom milking 200 cows a day year round for I think two years so far.

Anybody else hear this? I'd be interested in seeing if I could find the segment if I knew what time and station it was on.

sh1tstirrer

Enderol wrote: »

http://www.cowtime.com.au/edit/QuickNotes/QUICKNOTE_1.4_VERSION_3.PDF

Just an interesting article above that I think explains quickly alot of the main points around once a day milking.

The mother told me yesterday she heard on the radio of a couple in macroom milking 200 cows a day year round for I think two years so far.

Anybody else hear this? I'd be interested in seeing if I could find the segment if I knew what time and station it was on.

I remember seeing ear to the ground a few years ago it was about a woman milking 200 cows OAD as her husband had a full time job. Maybe they are in Macroom.

milkprofit

Irish bob cows have gone up 150 e in the last few weeks

irishh_bob

milkprofit wrote: »

Irish bob cows have gone up 150 e in the last few weeks

culls ?

JohnBoy

I did a small bit of looking into this a few weeks back, kinda on the back of farfield's query, and kinda on something someone else said that planted a seed in the back of my mind.

Some studies suggest that while yield drops off in year one that if you keep at it then the cows will actually adjust and can end up producing up to 90% of their original yield in year 3.

As they should be producing more solids, and you can stock more of them to the acre you should in theory be able to achieve very close to 100% of your original per acre income.

Then if you factor in the potential reduced costs you could approach break even.

This is all theoretical of course, but I'd say do a lot more research.

Moorepark did a study for a few years on it.

PMU

JohnBoy wrote: »

I did a small bit of looking into this a few weeks back, kinda on the back of farfield's query, and kinda on something someone else said that planted a seed in the back of my mind.

Some studies suggest that while yield drops off in year one that if you keep at it then the cows will actually adjust and can end up producing up to 90% of their original yield in year 3.

As they should be producing more solids, and you can stock more of them to the acre you should in theory be able to achieve very close to 100% of your original per acre income.

Then if you factor in the potential reduced costs you could approach break even.

This is all theoretical of course, but I'd say do a lot more research.

Moorepark did a study for a few years on it.

you cannot stock any higher on OAD,the cows wont eat less.it would suit someone expanding without enough quota,OAD until quotas go then TwiceAD.

JohnBoy

I dont have any direct experience, but pretty much anything I've read on the topic says that you can increase stocking rates.

http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=once+a+day+milking+stocking+rates

irishh_bob

PMU wrote: »

you cannot stock any higher on OAD,the cows wont eat less.it would suit someone expanding without enough quota,OAD until quotas go then TwiceAD.

of course the cows eat less on OAD and of course you can stock higher , those are the possitives along with reduced labour demand , the negatives are the reduction in yield per cow and the extra buildings and space required

PMU

how high would you stock on TAD and how high would expect to go on OAD?

irishh_bob

PMU wrote: »

how high would you stock on TAD and how high would expect to go on OAD?

under a TAD system , a cow will eat around 18 kg dm per day , under a OAD system , it would be closer to 13 kg dm per day , if you take a stocking rate of 3.5 LU per HA under a TAD system , i imagine it would be possible to go 4.5 under a OAD set up , walking to and fro from the parlour alone burns up a fair bit of energy

JohnBoy

The stuff I read suggested 10-15% higher stocking rates.

PMU

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=once%20a%20day%20milking%20stocking%20rates&source=web&cd=17&ved=0CD0QFjAGOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.side.org.nz%2FIM_Custom%2FContentStore%2FAssets%2F9%2F69%2F4959eadd7d28954ed1ef85e908942cd1%2FONCE%2520A%2520DAY%2520MILKING.pdf&ei=pdjcTpvaE8e3hAfbkOSSBg&usg=AFQjCNEnhvmIZTQYEPFL34KCm-9g7UeQCw
this does not indicate much of an improvement in SR

Enderol

Someone said there that Teagasc did a trial. I couldn't find the report on it. Anyone have a link to it?

JohnBoy

average of 4.89 cows/ha in the two years he was 100% OAD versus average of 4.28 cows/ha in the years he wasnt 100% OAD.

that's a 14% increase, which is in line with other reports I've seen.

bogman_bass

it seems that the big advantage with OAD is the way it will tighting up your calving patern. The cow is under less stress so goes in calf a lot easier

JohnBoy

Enderol wrote: »

Someone said there that Teagasc did a trial. I couldn't find the report on it. Anyone have a link to it?

Didnt see the report either, but lot's of references to it.

http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=moorepark+once+a+day+milking

I'd imagine a call to your local teagasc office should be able to get you a copy

funny man

Sorry guys but it's a myth that cows milked once a day will not eat the same as a cow milked twice a day, if this was true a dry cow would eat fcuk all. From what i know about OAD (not alot) i can see how cows will put on extra weight/condition from the reduced draw on energy while they produce 10-30% less go in-calf with ease they will still eat the same amount as the TAD. Where the increased stocking rate comes from is probably achieved from better grass utilisation with cows in better condition they could be pushed harder.

not sure

I believe funny man is correct in saying you can stock higher simply by pushing cows to graze harder which is my experince so far. I have only started OAD not only for life style reasons but also because, I have the extra stock on hand at the moment and then as a consequence of OAD I should have more milking stock to sell through higher fertility and higher stock numbers and also my parlour is large enough for OAD post quota (it wouldn't be large enough for TAD post quota). I think farmers should ask themselves how hard do they want to work post quota and I think OAD is something that expanding farmers should consider post quota.

Farfield

"Not Sure" i have read up long and hard about OAD milking and in particular blending it with an off farm job. If the proteins etc increased a lot and it reduced labour costs (along with quality of life) it could be very interesting for a less intensive friesien type cow, but i still think mastitis could be an issue.

seanmc84

irishh_bob wrote: »

wouldnt agree at all

solids significantly rise so you get a higher price , at this time of year , cows are way passed thier peak so any reduction in volume is compensated by increased protein , cows eat less so you can extend the grazing season , savings are also made on electricity and its nice not having to milk in the evening either , OP , you should see no drawbacks whatsoever unless you have serious problems already with cell count

Hi bob is this based on theory or actual experience?

Buford T. Justice XIX

seanmc84 wrote: »

Hi bob is this based on theory or actual experience?

Irishh bob is banned so I doubt he will be able to answer your question. I think he said a few posts back that he was working on his brothers farm, post#25 above.


sure i dont even own my own herd of cows , have witnessed OAD for a while on the bros farm , from around end of october onwards and it seems to work fine untill drying off in mid december , never saw it done for an entire season

Sam Kade

seanmc84 wrote: »

Hi bob is this based on theory or actual experience?

Bob has long since been hunted from the building, he tried to gain entry many times under different aliases but was quickly spotted and hunted again.

seanmc84

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Irishh bob is banned so I doubt he will be able to answer your question. I think he said a few posts back that he was working on his brothers farm, post#25 above.


sure i dont even own my own herd of cows , have witnessed OAD for a while on the bros farm , from around end of october onwards and it seems to work fine untill drying off in mid december , never saw it done for an entire season

Thanks I saw this as I continued to read