Sunday Independent Lansdowne poll FF 10%

thebman

Due out tomorrow, source is a competitor to boards.ie politics site so I won't post the link but most probably know it anyway.

Sunday Independent/Millward Brown Lansdowne poll: FG 40 up 4 since General Election, Lab 20 up 1, SF 11 up 1, FF 10 down 7, Greens 2 unchanged, Independents 17 up 2.

Polling over a fortnight Aug 30 to September 14

This looks pretty bad for FF. Also on that site is rumours Eamon O'Cuiv might be about to try to form a break away party and that it comes up in the TV3 rise and fall of FF documentary on the last night of it.

Is this the end of Fianna Fail? Kind of hard to say i guess. I think it wouldn't be bad for Irish politics if this force were to be replaced by two smaller parties though FG being significantly the largest party in the state might be a problem of its own.

Looks like it is heading that way to me though. The reforms of the party don't really seem to be going well and the name is marketing poison at this stage and the party void of funds it seems. So anyone else care to guess what is going on with FF at the moment and does anyone else think that the party and MM leadership is unlikely to survive past this local by-election.

Denerick

I'm assuming this 'competitor' is politics.ie. Just bloody say it. We don't live in an Orwellian society. Yet.

Sir Oxman

When the public see the likes of McGrath on TV today giving out about this govt paying bondholders (think about that for a second) and the debacle of Martin's presidential phonecalls to any old 'popular' celebrity it is no wonder whatsoever that FF have sunk to 10%. (I'm taking this poll a whole lot more seriously than other Quantum polls)

And this is before the Mahon report.

I may see the absolute end of the entity known as FF sooner than I could have hoped.

Wolfe Tone

So 90% of people dont support FF, good stuff.

anymore

Denerick wrote: »

I'm assuming this 'competitor' is politics.ie. Just bloody say it. We don't live in an Orwellian society. Yet.

Frankly given the way political correctness is determining what people can and cannot say, then I fear we are already on the way to an Orwelian Society.

Liam Byrne

Aside from warning people in relation to the Sindo's usual exaggeration of all things statistical or even remotely factual, I'd be disgusted if this were even close to the truth.

That said, given that FG are throwing away €700,000,000 to even more Anglo gamblers (did I actually hear Noonan use the term "invest" ? In a bankrupt company that's being closed down ?) it's going to be a depressing time in Irish politics with not even one remotely decent party to vote for.

Biggins, you're up!

thebman

Denerick wrote: »

I'm assuming this 'competitor' is politics.ie. Just bloody say it. We don't live in an Orwellian society. Yet.

This isn't a society, it is a privately owned discussion forum bound by terms of use etc... :P

AhSureTisGrand

Denerick wrote: »

I'm assuming this 'competitor' is politics.ie. Just bloody say it. We don't live in an Orwellian society. Yet.

Can't say the same about Boards I'm afraid :pac:

alex73

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So 90% of people dont support FF, good stuff.

Had to laugh this evening when FF were talking about bond holders and noonan lot burning the.... What total a utter hypocrasy from a party the sold our sovernity

thebman

I do think there is an inherent danger in the public just replacing FF with FG though. I kind of would have expected FF support to split to the other parties and for FG to hold steady, maybe even decline slightly from the election.

raymon

Can 10% really be that stupid

Liam Byrne

raymon wrote: »

Can 10% really be that stupid

They were a few months back.

Mind you, I feel pretty stupid myself given FG's refusal to avoid throwing away 700 million.

thebman

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They were a few months back.

Mind you, I feel pretty stupid myself given FG's refusal to avoid throwing away 700 million.

I think they gave that a shot to see would it fly though. If it was the core reason you voted for them ditch them I guess but there are other reasons why people voted for them that weren't directly linked to that policy decision.

Denerick

anymore wrote: »

Frankly given the way political correctness is determining what people can and cannot say, then I fear we are already on the way to an Orwelian Society.

Somebody please hit me over the head with a wet fish and clean up my vomit.

You are more than entitled to be a racist idiot with stupid opinions, political correctness is essentially a common reaction to stupid and bigoted comments. You are free to make stupid comments, similarily I and others are free to insult and ridicule you for them. It really would be 'political correctness gone mad' if somebody wasn't allowed to chastise racists, sexists or homophobes for fear of 'appearing to be politically correct'.

Not that I'm suggesting you are any of those awful things, but this 'political correctness gone mad' lark annoys the hell out of me.

Foghladh

gambiaman wrote: »

I'm taking this poll a whole lot more seriously than other Quantum polls

Can I ask why you'd take this poll more seriously than the others? Have they used different methods or something?

Sir Oxman

Foghladh wrote: »

Can I ask why you'd take this poll more seriously than the others? Have they used different methods or something?

It's not a Quantum Research poll , that's all
I should have left out the word 'other' in that sentence.

femur61

[QUOTE=
And this is before the Mahon report.

I may see the absolute end of the entity known as FF sooner than I could have hoped.[/QUOTE]


When is the Mahon Report due to be finished or published? We probably got the interest rate reduction on the back of Greece’s shenanigans but I think it was Ollie Rehn, or somebody from the EU said they couldn't believe that the late Brian Lenihan didn't bargain on the interest rate.

Benny_Cake

Foghladh wrote: »

Can I ask why you'd take this poll more seriously than the others? Have they used different methods or something?

I think the point is that Milward Brown Lansdowne are an actual market research / polling company. "Quantum Research" on the other hand, appears to exist solely with in the pages of the Sunday Independent to bolster whatever case Aengus Fanning wants the paper to make on a given week.

HellsAngel

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So 90% of people dont support FF, good stuff.

I don't know how 10% can even support them and that's the truth.

HellsAngel

thebman wrote: »

Due out tomorrow, source is a competitor to boards.ie politics site so I won't post the link but most probably know it anyway.



This looks pretty bad for FF. Also on that site is rumours Eamon O'Cuiv might be about to try to form a break away party and that it comes up in the TV3 rise and fall of FF documentary on the last night of it.

So what will they call this new party ? Continuity Fianna Fail

raymon

Soldiers of treason might be a good name for the splinter group

Dev junior must remember that he was part of the gang that brought destruction upon us.

When they split the FF party they should split it along different lines, not Martin / Dev

Sir Oxman

femur61 wrote: »

When is the Mahon Report due to be finished or published? We probably got the interest rate reduction on the back of Greece’s shenanigans but I think it was Ollie Rehn, or somebody from the EU said they couldn't believe that the late Brian Lenihan didn't bargain on the interest rate.

I believe sometime before the end of this month.

Sir Oxman

HellsAngel wrote: »

So what will they call this new party ? Continuity Fianna Fail

This is so good I nicked it from the 'other' site - The Tay Party

Son Of A Vidic

While the results of this Poll is good news RE: Fianna Fail, give the current shower another 12 years and they'll have joined them. Because they are certainly heading the right direction anyway.

PeterIanStaker

How many of those 10% work for Independent Newspapers?

N8

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

While the results of this Poll is good news RE: Fianna Fail, give the current shower another 12 years and they'll have joined them. Because they are certainly heading the right direction anyway.

sorry CM - fg have already gone down that route and enda kenny has already adopted that bertie better than you attitude - pity they took labour down the tube with them - where will any other party come from to save this country from the present 'we're ok pull the ladder up' political elite?

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

How many of those 10% work for Independent Newspapers?

most be the same folk polled that 40% (yes two out of five) of whom wanted that prankster norris back in the presidential race - loving their anti ff views - very worried as to their pro norris agenda :eek:

johngalway

gambiaman wrote: »

This is so good I nicked it from the 'other' site - The Tay Party

The We Didn't do it, it was all Lehmans fault party :rolleyes:

Denerick

johngalway wrote: »

The We Didn't do it, it was all Lehmans fault party :rolleyes:

I still curse the day Bertie Ahern slit the throat of the Irish economy and then basked in its blood so he could become immortal.

It was quite selfish of him, deliberately destroying the economy just so he could watch it burn. Meanwhile the Irish people prudently invested their large incomes in wise and productive industries destined to be anything other than 'bubbleish'.

johngalway

Denerick wrote: »

I still curse the day Bertie Ahern slit the throat of the Irish economy and then basked in its blood so he could become immortal.

It was quite selfish of him, deliberately destroying the economy just so he could watch it burn. Meanwhile the Irish people prudently invested their large incomes in wise and productive industries destined to be anything other than 'bubbleish'.

Good man Den, you've finally come to your senses :P

juuge

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

How many of those 10% work for Independent Newspapers?

I'd say that 10% is made up of those that FF appointed to state boards and as many quangos you care to name.

Denerick

johngalway wrote: »

Good man Den, you've finally come to your senses :P

I've always been an inveterate anti Fianna Fáiler, anti Fine Gaeler, and basically anti anyone who hasn't the balls to tell the public that they're basically moronic and stupid and deserve everything they get...

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

I've always been an inveterate anti Fianna Fáiler, anti Fine Gaeler, and basically anti anyone who hasn't the balls to tell the public that they're basically moronic and stupid and deserve everything they get...

Hopefully present company excluded.

I'll admit that I hoped for better from FG, but I did say at the time that the lack of corruption wasn't going to be enough based on the mess FF created this time around.

The problem is that there is absolutely no decent alternative, and even if there was the bulk of the public would still opt for the status quo, rendering any decent, forward-thinking, competent and realistic party null and void.

So where do we start ?

johngalway

Denerick wrote: »

tell the public that they're basically moronic and stupid and deserve everything they get...

Get off the fence...

I agree with that, but remember that Bertie lad telling the people "doing down the a'conomy", remember the advice he gave them?

Up to his little pudgy neck, that's how deep he was involved, then he bailed. Leaving the less cunning to suffer on. Which they did, willingly.

I do remember in one of the leaders debates before the election Enda telling people there'd pretty much be nothing but bad news after the election. Or, at least that's what I got from what he said.

The ironic thing is, people knew that, voted FG, then bitch, whine, and moan that FG haven't rectified 14 (or whatever) years of mismanagement overnight...

So, yeah, I do agree with the piece I quoted

As for the bould Eamon, I've sat within spitting distance (no, I didn't ) listening to him spout the Lehmans brudders excuse. Dem brudders hadn't gone tits up when EU finance minsiters were telling McCreevy he had us on the road to ruin, not that they themselves were to be covered in glory either.

I've argued with him in public situations. He won't admit to being wrong, even when he clearly is. He works hard, no doubt about that and I wouldn't take it away from him. But, perhaps less "work" would have resulted in less damage. See piers around Connemara that have cost millions upon millions, occupied by two or three currachs, if that.

Mismanagement cost us more than dem Lehman brudders ever could. If the economy had been built on more responsible foundations then perhaps we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are now.

Liam Byrne

johngalway wrote: »

The ironic thing is, people knew that, voted FG, then bitch, whine, and moan that FG haven't rectified 14 (or whatever) years of mismanagement overnight...

Incorrect. I accepted beforehand - as I clearly stated above - that the size of the mess that FF created would take years to fix.

However I do object to FG throwing another €700,000,000 of our hard-earned money into Anglo and even worse using the word "investment" to describe it.

johngalway

Liam Byrne wrote: »

However I do object to FG throwing another €700,000,000 of our hard-earned money into Anglo and even worse using the word "investment" to describe it.

Was that 700,000,000 money that had already been pledged under the bailout? Because they did say they wouldn't put more money into bank above and beyond the amount already pledged. Somehow, that became translated into they wouldn't put any money at all into the banks.

Liam Byrne

johngalway wrote: »

Was that 700,000,000 money that had already been pledged under the bailout? Because they did say they wouldn't put more money into bank above and beyond the amount already pledged. Somehow, that became translated into they wouldn't put any money at all into the banks.

Irrelevant. There is no obligation to pay it. They are wasting 700 million euro and will expect us to pay for it despite barely being able to make ends meet and trying our damndest not to become another dole or emigration statistic.

johngalway

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Irrelevant. There is no obligation to pay it. They are wasting 700 million euro and will expect us to pay for it despite barely being able to make ends meet and trying our damndest not to become another dole or emigration statistic.

Kinda not irrelevant if it's a condition of the bail out. Anyway, I'd prefer the country to be able to work through this mess rather than start looking more like the Greeces of the world.

With the proposed interest rate adjustment (you know, the one Lendahand said could never happen) 700,000,000 becomes 100,000,000. Still a lot of money though.

Besides all that, I agree with what one commentator said today or yesterday, that the D word needs to be taken off the table. We're in a bad position, which will become worse if Greece defaults. If we then follow on to further rock the boat, there's no good result for us out of that IMO.

Either way we will pay some amount, I'd prefer some stability to go along with that. If countries start falling like dominoes that's going to seriously affect trade inside and outside the Euro zone, and trade is one of the few good things we happen to have left.

Liam Byrne

johngalway wrote: »

With the proposed interest rate adjustment (you know, the one Lendahand said could never happen) 700,000,000 becomes 100,000,000.

What are you on about ? The 700,000,000 is being put into the Anglo cesspit, and no interest rate reduction is going to amount to 600,000,000 of the principal!

johngalway

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What are you on about ? The 700,000,000 is being put into the Anglo cesspit, and no interest rate reduction is going to amount to 600,000,000 of the principal!

Better news than I had heard.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0917/1224304265335.html?via=business

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/noonan-5-interest-rate-cut-agreed-on-segment-of-bailout-loan-520897.html

Liam Byrne

johngalway wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What are you on about ? The 700,000,000 is being put into the Anglo cesspit, and no interest rate reduction is going to amount to 600,000,000 of the principal!

Better news than I had heard.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0917/1224304265335.html?via=business

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/noonan-5-interest-rate-cut-agreed-on-segment-of-bailout-loan-520897.html

I still have no idea what point you are trying to make.

An interest rate reduction is good news but the fact remains that there is no legal obligation to "invest" in Anglo, and even the use of the word "invest" makes me roll my eyes in disgust at FG.