The Travelling Folk

Denerick

Whenever this group of people are mentioned in either Ireland or the UK there is inevitable controversy. I really don't want controversy.

It seems to me that we have an underclass. Much of Europe has an underclass of Roma gypsies. In Latin America there are indigeneous folk clinging on to ancient lifestyles and practises. Nomads are common in Asia and Africa, who tend to annoy static Africans and Asians. Australia has aborogines who though aren't nomads, tend to live exclusive lifes and their community is beset by alcoholism and a host of social problems. So we've established that while the irish traveller is internationally unique, the idea of a nomadic underclass at odds with the accepted perception of society by the vast majority of the population is by no means 'odd'.

The fundamental problem seems to be that this community doesn't want to live in a settled environment and basically wants to make their home wherever they like. This understandably riles settled people who take quite a bit of pride in their home and their plot of land (especially in rural Ireland) and dislike the notion that some people are somehow 'entitled' to live wherever they like, rent free, and oblivious to the hassle they cause others.

It is a perrenial problem with no easy solution. For too long we've been muddling around the issue, afraid to hurt the sensibilities of the travelling community or of the rural population resentful of their perceived 'liberties'. Nobody wants to see enforced settlement of travellers in housing estates when they'd really desire to roam free in the wild (I realise I make them sound like Black Beauty or something) Similarily nobody wants to see a free for all where one group of people are permitted to break the laws of the land (vagrancy, squatting etc.) because its 'too much hassle' to constantly enforce them against a perpetually stubborn group of people.

Please respond to this thread in the spirit in which it was inspired. No stupid prejudices, no slang terms, none of the usual nonsense that invades any half reasonable discussion about the travellers. Thanks.

looksee

There was a previous thread in Humanities about travellers, but it fizzled out because there was nothing more anyone could say without in some way being accused of being racist or bigoted. There were contributions by a traveller, but they were not very helpful as he did little more than quote long sections of studies rather than offering his own opinions.

You say you do not want controversy, but that is inevitable.

My view is that we are paternalistic towards travellers. We do not expect them to behave as adults - ie responsible members of society - so we continue to treat them in much the same way that an irresponsible parent allows a child to do as he pleases, just so the child will not throw a temper tantrum.

That paragraph is controversial. I am being offensive to travellers by lumping them all together and accusing them of being childish. But how else can we discuss this question?

Maybe we are only talking about the visible small percentage that cause the issues of damage, theft, and non-contribution to society in the form of taxes? If it is a small percentage, maybe we could suggest to the law-abiding, tax paying, non-littering majority of travellers that they should persuade their lawless relatives of the error of their ways?

We have to make a decision. Either we regard the travellers as kind of exotic pets that roam the house unrestrained, and we accept the cost of keeping them without complaint. Or we decide that they are real people, like the rest of us, with both rights and responsibilities, and we insist that, like the rest of us, they cannot have one without the other.

Denerick

Denerick wrote: »

It is a perrenial problem with no easy solution. For too long we've been muddling around the issue, afraid to hurt the sensibilities of the travelling community or of the rural population resentful of their perceived 'liberties'. Nobody wants to see enforced settlement of travellers in housing estates when they'd really desire to roam free in the wild (I realise I make them sound like Black Beauty or something) Similarily nobody wants to see a free for all where one group of people are permitted to break the laws of the land (vagrancy, squatting etc.) because its 'too much hassle' to constantly enforce them against a perpetually stubborn group of people.

Strangely enough, I would like to see the enforcement or settlement of travellers. The time where a large group of people could travel freely across the country is long gone. The state hasn't the resources to provide enough land for them to occupy in their travels (even if they would stick to the areas and not dstroy private land), and I believe the Irish people themselves no longer have the patience to put up with a segment of society that.. well... refuses to be part of society.

My problem is that they (travellers) want the benefits of society (welfare, protection, etc) but want to remain apart from that very society. Their "traditional" lifestyle which seems to be the only real justification no longer contains anything of real value... instead it has become a justification to remain outside of the law and social responsibilities.

I'm from a town in the midlands that had a high population of both settled and transient "travellers".. Frankly, I wouldn't wish their lifestyle on anyone. We have laws against people harming themselves, and yet we have no law to prevent these people from continuing an existance that is just so damn nasty to their children..

So, I will go with the unpopular notion that they should be given a choice. Settle down, and lead productive lives within society or travel to another country more suitable to their lifestyle. (Not that I believe that such a country exists anymore)

Please respond to this thread in the spirit in which it was inspired. No stupid prejudices, no slang terms, none of the usual nonsense that invades any half reasonable discussion about the travellers. Thanks.

You're asking/expecting too much. This is a personal issue for many of us having grown up in proximity to Traveller camps, having gone to school with their children, or been on the receiving end of some of their nonsence.