As the Comedian said to the Archbishop ...

bnt

The alleged Comedian in question is Frank Skinner, who had a little chat with the Archbishop of Canterbury, as reported here. Some startling revelations, such as the "fact" that atheists are as dangerous as deniers of global warming:

In a conversation with the Archbishop of Canterbury last night, the Catholic comedian said: ‘Atheists we might see as people like those who deny global warming. You might defend their choice to believe that as freedom of speech – but if they are wrong and people are taken in, it could be disastrous for millions of people.’

I think it's great that he has a sense of humour about all this:

‘It really gets on my nerves that atheists is all about sitting on leather chairs in gentlemen’s clubs with Dawkins and Bertrand Russell while I sit reading novels with Cliff Richard. I think we’re stuck with that.’

He added that his friend and former flatmate David Baddiel could never understand his faith, and would ask: ‘Doesn’t it ever worry you that everyone else who believes in what you believe is an idiot.’

Skinner said his response was to ask: ‘Doesn’t that bother you at Chelsea games?’

Still, a sense of humour only takes him so far when he's trying to argue in favour of religion:

I can think of only one laugh in the Bible. When Sarah, I think it is, is old and told she’s going to gave a baby she does this sort of bitter laugh. And God takes exception to it.

:rolleyes:

kylith

‘Atheists we might see as people like those who deny global warming. You might defend their choice to believe that as freedom of speech – but if they are wrong and people are taken in, it could be disastrous for millions of people.’

Aren't the churches denying climate change? Since the almighty God created the world he'd never let it run out of fuel, or poison us, or flood us, or anything... right?

5uspect

Isn't this old news? Just like Frank Skinner.

bnt

5uspect wrote: »

Isn't this old news? Just like Frank Skinner.

What do you mean? Best I can tell, this conversation happened in the past couple of days - even if the content is the same old same old, like his routines.

5uspect

Ah okay, I remember him going off on a similar rant a few years ago.

MrStuffins

Why the hell would non belief in God be anything to do with "Freedom of Speech"?

bnt

Because our freedom to not believe in his religion is disturbing to the masses. It's more important for everyone to be on the same page, he says. Doesn't matter what's on the page ... :rolleyes:

PS: anyone from richarddawkins.net reading this forum? :P

goose2005

kylith wrote: »

Aren't the churches denying climate change? Since the almighty God created the world he'd never let it run out of fuel, or poison us, or flood us, or anything... right?

And even if He does, it's only a prelude to the End Times and bringing all of the righteous to heaven.

MagicMarker

In fairness, if Frank Skinner was a poster here and said the same thing I'm sure it would be followed with :pac:.

Dades

Dammit and I'm a big fan of Frank Skinner! I'd never have put him as religious (though he is a recovered alcoholic).

Atheists as Climate Change deniers? LOL

Religious as flat-earthers more like, refusing to accept the bloody obvious.

Zombrex

I think someone should explain to Skinner what you actually have to do to be a Catholic. For a start he might want to stop sleeping with his long term girlfriend and go back to his divorced wife.

See how happy he is about that and then get back to me about his views on atheists. :rolleyes:

marty1985

It really gets on my nerves that atheists is all about sitting on leather chairs in gentlemen’s clubs with Dawkins and Bertrand Russell while I sit reading novels with Cliff Richard.

appears to be a misquote.

"It really gets on my nerves that atheists imagine themselves in a fabulous gentleman's club, sitting on leather chesterfields, with Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins, while I seem to be at McDonald's with Cliff Richard," is what he actually said.

mehfesto

He definitely has something in the pipelines.

The tabloids at the weekend all reported that he considered Ant & Dec to be 'pure evil'. There was another one about him going off about Simon Cowell. I imagine it's all a ploy to get him back in the spotlight as some sort of 'angry old man', type of character. Seems to scripted and well timed to be anything else to me.

bnt

mehfesto wrote: »

He definitely has something in the pipelines.

The tabloids at the weekend all reported that he considered Ant & Dec to be 'pure evil'. There was another one about him going off about Simon Cowell. I imagine it's all a ploy to get him back in the spotlight as some sort of 'angry old man', type of character. Seems to scripted and well timed to be anything else to me.

Well, he's the new host of the BBC's Room 101, replacing Paul Merton. I don't know if that's sufficient reason for this ...

bnt

Skinner's "atheism is cool" remark has ruffled a few feathers, it seems. In the Telegraph:

By outing himself as a believer – even in miracles, God help us – Skinner was sticking two fingers up at the liberal establishment. The BBC, a pillar of that establishment, for whom Skinner works, has shown what it thinks of religion. They have nipped and tucked at God slots for years, so now the skeletal model looks nothing like its original, vibrant self. Atheists such as Charles Handy share their scepticism on Thought for the Day, and the new “face” of BBC religion is Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou, a self-proclaimed atheist. As for Richard Dawkins, his non-stop exposure and fanatically loyal ageing groupies have turned him into the Cliff Richard of atheism.

But atheism, unlike Cliff, is cool. Catholics, with their paedophile scandals and birth control pangs, writhe with hot and heavy guilt. Nothing cool about them. Anglicans are like shy first-years who tie themselves in knots over every controversial issue. Jewish neuroses have kept Woody Allen and Howard Jacobson in business for decades; while Muslims’ strictures, from no alcohol to no conversions, are too intense to be cool.

marty1985

But what's the big deal? Comedians can joke about Maddie McCann or Jews and the Holocaust, but atheism is a sacred cow? This is why people misconstrue atheism as a religion in itself. He's a comedian, he made a joke, big deal - and it's all over Richard Dawkins' website, that's a bit sad. This forum is half dedicated to making jokes and ridiculing religion, so there's hardly any need for moral indignation when Frank Skinner has a pop at atheism. It's no big deal.

Some startling revelations, such as the "fact" that atheists are as dangerous as deniers of global warming

And fact shouldn't be in quotation marks, should it, since he never said that? That's just reaching for moral indignation when there's no need for it IMO.

MagicMarker

marty1985 wrote: »

But what's the big deal? Comedians can joke about Maddie McCann or Jews and the Holocaust, but atheism is a sacred cow? This is why people misconstrue atheism as a religion in itself. He's a comedian, he made a joke, big deal - and it's all over Richard Dawkins' website, that's a bit sad. This forum is half dedicated to making jokes and ridiculing religion, so there's hardly any need for moral indignation when Frank Skinner has a pop at atheism. It's no big deal.



And fact shouldn't be in quotation marks, should it, since he never said that? That's just reaching for moral indignation when there's no need for it IMO.

Someone in the public eye said stuff about atheism, and now it's being discussed on an A&A forum. What's the problem? There's no ''moral indignation'', no one thinks atheism is ''sacred'', that's ridiculous and you know it.

Dades

marty1985 wrote: »

It's no big deal.

Correct - and nobody suggested it was.
I'm still a Skinner fan, and will no doubt still enjoy his podcasts despite his shocking revelation.

This idea that just because something gets discussed here it's a big deal is a big, fat red herring. If you want a big deal here, you just need to mention schools and the church.

nozzferrahhtoo

marty1985 wrote: »

But what's the big deal? Comedians can joke about Maddie McCann or Jews and the Holocaust, but atheism is a sacred cow?

No, and what is more you know well the answer is no.

However when he says something serious about Atheism then there is no reason not to discuss it just because he is a comedian given this is a forum specifically designed for talking about Atheism.

But again: No. I have found that a lot of the theists I deal with are actually surprised at my ability to take a joke, and even make them at my own expense, while they get offended. The story I often tell goes as follows:

I was tricked into attending an Alpha Course once when I was working in Ireland. Many people invite you to a "discussion group" which turns out to be the Alpha Course. While there I made a flippant joke about religion and faith and all the theists who were in on the group got uppity. I said they should not get so upset when people make simple jokes, especially when the context makes it clear there is nothing malicious in it. So they tried to offend me in turn with a joke that went something like this...

=========================
AN ATHEIST IN THE WOODS

An atheist was walking through the woods marveling at how beautiful and amazing everything when suddenly a bear rushes at him from the bushes claws extended.

Running away he tripped and fell, rolled and screamed "Oh my God" at which point time and everything froze and gods voice boomed out: "You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist admitted this would by hypocritical and instead said "But could you make the bear a Christian instead".

'Very well,' said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:

'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.'
=========================

After laughing at this (to their surprise) I quickly... and if I were to massage my own ego quite wittily given the short notice etc..... replied:

Silly atheist. He should have specified _which_ of the 33820* forms of Christianity to turn the bear into. If he had specified Mormons for example they eat meat sparingly so he would have been in with a good chance at least. If he had said Amish the bear might have wandered off looking for gravy first.

Or maybe even another kind of nutter like the Ugandan "Ten Commandments of God" sect. The bear would have just wandered off into a hut and burned the place down around him then. Not before getting his wife and kids into the hut first however! So the man would have been ok!

Not to say that any of the christians here are nutters of course. Lord no. Just the other 33819 denominations who clearly have it wrong. You guys are on the money clearly.

They were not happy, but they did not try and trick me into one of their meetings again, or anyone else for that matter either once I let people know their invitation was a front to get people into attending an alpha course.

So yes, we can take it as well as we give it when it comes to jokes and humour around both religion and atheism. But do not make the mistake of thinking we would ignore something serious a comedian says because he happens to be a comedian. That career is not a get out of jail free card for espousing any political belief and hoping people will not question or contradict you.

*World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version)

Dades

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

But again: No. I have found that a lot of the theists I deal with are actually surprised at my ability to take a joke...

Just FYI, marty1985 is agnostic.

nozzferrahhtoo

Dades wrote: »

Just FYI, marty1985 is agnostic.

I know. Nothing in my sentence above which you quoted requires him to be either-or as I was not referring to him but theists in general.

Though I have said before I doubt his claim to be agnostic given his posting history in which he has claimed things like how he prays and how people can be "saved".

Not conclusive of course, but it certainly stokes my personal suspicion.

Dades

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I know. Nothing in my sentence above which you quoted requires him to be either-or as I was not referring to him but theists in general.

In the same way nothing in my post required you to have suggested he was.

I'm certain your suspicions are unfounded, btw.

nozzferrahhtoo

Dades wrote: »

In the same way nothing in my post required you to have suggested he was.

Indeed, which is mainly the source of my confusion as to why you pointed it out at all you see. Had you replied with "FYI he likes to eat carrots" I would likely be no more or less confused.

Not getting at you in any way, I am just thinking out loud that since you replied to me I am unsure what the meaning of the reply was.

As for my suspicions, you may well be right of course. Many suspicions turn out to be wrong which is why I simply called them suspicions. However I still have them given he is probably the only praying agnostic with the belief that people can be "saved" that I have ever met. All entirely irrelevant to the thread though of course but my defense lawyer would happily point out that you brought it up

sponsoredwalk

Is it just me or is that atheist in the woods joke not a joke about christianity?

nozzferrahhtoo

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Is it just me or is that atheist in the woods joke not a joke about christianity?

Not sure now you mention it. I know the context and spirit in which it was told by the heavily Christian Alpha Course organiser was a "Look at how silly this atheist is, and how he got his comeuppance in the end when his wish backfired and he rejected god" context but I agree if he wanted to try and get under my skin he could have reached for a better sample.

Dades

I offered an alternative atheist joke in the Islam thead:

Dades wrote: »

An atheist walks in a bar.
The barman says: "why the smug face?"

sponsoredwalk

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Not sure now you mention it. I know the context and spirit in which it was told by the heavily Christian Alpha Course organiser was a "Look at how silly this atheist is, and how he got his comeuppance in the end when his wish backfired and he rejected god" context but I agree if he wanted to try and get under my skin he could have reached for a better sample.

Ha, yeah I can only imagine the atmosphere midway into him telling the
joke, well I'd read that joke before & honestly seen it as poking fun of the
history & philosophy of christianity & am really hoping that's the way most
people would read it if only to make it even funnier that a christian would
use such a joke as a means to put down an atheist

goose2005

Zombrex wrote: »

I think someone should explain to Skinner what you actually have to do to be a Catholic. For a start he might want to stop sleeping with his long term girlfriend and go back to his divorced wife.

See how happy he is about that and then get back to me about his views on atheists. :rolleyes:

That's not fair, Skinner has shown himself on numerous occasions to be a homophobe, so at least he's with the RCC there.

Dades

^^ Really? Not an impression I ever got listening to his show.

mehfesto

Dades wrote: »

^^ Really? Not an impression I ever got listening to his show.

His early 90s 'lad' comedy years were pretty homophobic from what I remember. Definitely has changed a lot about himself since then. He's funny now for one.

Galvasean

bnt wrote: »

Skinner's "atheism is cool" remark has ruffled a few feathers, it seems.

Which brings us to the next point of debate... Are we cool because of our atheism or despite it?

kylith

He didn't seem too bothered at all the atheists around him on QI the other night.

Galvasean

kylith wrote: »

He didn't seem too bothered at all the atheists around him on QI the other night.

Well sure. It's one thing to talk the talk with a guy who shares the same views as you, but saying such things when someone like Stephen Fry is in earshot is quite the different kettle of fish.