Sony waiving your rights

LostCorkGuy

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

The text : "Sony is preparing to ban gamers
from the PlayStation Network
(PSN) unless they waive the right to
collectively sue it over future
security breaches.
The firm has amended PSN's terms
and conditions and users have to
agree to them next time they log in.
The move comes months after a string
of hacking attacks compromised over
100 million accounts of the PlayStation
Network subscribers .
It is , however , possible to opt out of
the agreement within the next 30
days.
Gamers will now have to try to resolve
any legal issues with an arbitrator
picked by Sony , before being able to
file a lawsuit .
The new clauses , dubbed "Binding
Individual Arbitration ," state that " any
Dispute Resolution Proceedings ,
whether in arbitration or court , will be
conducted only on an individual basis
and not in a class or representative
action or as a named or unnamed
member in a class, consolidated ,
representative or private attorney
general action" .
The re-written terms and conditions
are being presented to gamers when
they log in, but some have
questioned who will notice the
changes.
Tech news site The Register wondered
who would notice the small print
outlining the opt -out terms, and not
simply click the "agree" box having
scrolled all the way down.
Those that want to opt out will have
to send a letter to Sony 's Los Angeles
headquarters in the US.
Once they do , the subscribers will be
able to keep their right to file a class
action lawsuit without any need for
arbitration.
But before subscribers have a chance
to opt out , they will still be required to
agree to the new terms the next time
they log into their accounts .
Otherwise they will not be able to use
the online services . "

Sincerly concerned 360 owner

But seriously I think thats bloody disgracefull , do people store their credit card details on psn like xbox anf live ?

AlmightyCushion

I could be wrong but I doubt that has much legal standing. Would be interested to hear what some lawyers think of it though.

Myrddin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I could be wrong but I doubt that has much legal standing. Would be interested to hear what some lawyers think of it though.

The courts in California are a different breed though, I'm sure Sony's law folks have given this the green light. As far as I'm aware though, this is only relevant for the US.

Varik

EnterNow wrote: »

The courts in California are a different breed though, I'm sure Sony's law folks have given this the green light. As far as I'm aware though, this is only relevant for the US.

It is only relevant to the US and has been perfectly normal for a while there.

US Supreme Court decided that consumers can waive their right to bring class-action lawsuits as one of the terms of a contract, there was thing with AT&T.

After reading the end of that article i think the BBC should hire someone new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynpnYh4o_Qo

Odaise Gaelach

I'm surprised that it's not in the terms and conditions already.

hare05

Don't forget they also removed all language referring to 'ownership' of software or devices and replaced it with licensing language.

My guess is PS3 is coming to the end of it's life, Sony want to cut PSN support quickly once it does, and are prepping for that now.

MitchKoobski

Myrddin

Varik wrote: »

It is only relevant to the US and has been perfectly normal for a while there.

US Supreme Court decided that consumers can waive their right to bring class-action lawsuits as one of the terms of a contract, there was thing with AT&T.

After reading the end of that article i think the BBC should hire someone new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynpnYh4o_Qo

You can opt out of it in writing, & retain access to PSN I believe. Given the sheer number in loss of all those accounts by Sony, it was only a matter of time before people got a "If you want access, sign here to agree that if anything bad ever happens it wasn't our fault" kind of clause.

Varik

EnterNow wrote: »

You can opt out of it in writing, & retain access to PSN I believe.

What i mean is why do you need to write anything, if you need to agree to this new TOS then by not agreeing surely you opt out.

It's not like writhing in will allow you to go on PSN and still be able to enter a class action lawsuit.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31HaTbWONmQ

Myrddin

Varik wrote: »

What i mean is why do you need to write anything, if you need to agree to this new TOS then by not agreeing surely you opt out.

It's not like writhing in will allow you to go on PSN and still be able to enter a class action lawsuit.

No, but you can retain your consumer rights while still having access to PSN

RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.

Source

So there you have it. A simple old-school snail-mail will allow you to both enjoy the PSN service and maintain your given rights as a US or [INSERT YOUR STATE HERE] citizen.

Source

Varik

EnterNow wrote: »

No, but you can retain your consumer rights while still having access to PSN

Wonder why that's there, AT&T didn't need it nor did the supreme court make a requirements for it.

hare05

Varik wrote: »

EnterNow wrote: »

No, but you can retain your consumer rights while still having access to PSN

Wonder why that's there, AT&T didn't need it nor did the supreme court make a requirements for it.

Although precedent for contracts has been set, there is still an inherent issue with EULAs. Signature on every page vs a single button click that arguably could happen by accident.

In case questions are asked, Sony want to be able to show evidence that people can still opt out after the button click, and as such effort has been made to 'be fair'.

The fact that the opt out is in a form that costs you money, takes several days and has the inherent weakness of a letter being 'misplaced' before the deadline doesn't matter to them, or rather, was intended.

Most likely they'll assign one clerk to work on those letters slowly for the 30 days, then claim the rest didn't arrive.

Myrddin

hare05 wrote: »

Signature on every page vs a single button click that arguably could happen by accident

There's also the issue of 2nd hand consoles. Theoretically in the US, someone could make the agreement, then sell the console on to somone who knew nothing about it & didn't agree to it.

Varik

hare05 wrote: »

Although precedent for contracts has been set, there is still an inherent issue with EULAs. Signature on every page vs a single button click that arguably could happen by accident.

There are law on how these EULAs are done in the EU, like there needs to be some "No" answer not just a "Yes".

Also considering the US postal service is almost dead and has many many problems that are coming to a head lately, who knows you may have to hand deliver it or send it by courier.

hare05

Varik wrote: »

There are law on how these EULAs are done in the EU, like there needs to be some "No" answer not just a "Yes".

Also considering the US postal service is almost dead and has many many problems that are coming to a head lately, who knows you may have to hand deliver it or send it by courier.

My guess is anything not sent by registered post with verification of receipt will be 'lost' on arrival.

norrie rugger

Sony really fcukers.
Honestly never buying Sony again. Said it after my YLOD and actions like this strengthen that

Wolfe Tone

We dont have class action suits here anyways.