Maths Studies 3rd Year Modules

D.unnebeatable

Hi all, just looking for some feedback from anyone who has studied MS3001, MS3003, MS3005, MS 3006 or MS3011. I have been reading the modules guide and looking at past papers but still have no idea which 4 to choose out of the 6.MS3012 Introduction to Statistics is a new choice this year so I have found even less information about it, as to be expected I suppose. Any feedback at all would be extremely appreciated as a lot of students I know from last year have failed second year due to their module choice in Maths :eek:

rebel girl 15

i did MS3005 - disaster of a module, found it very hard to understand as the lecturer gave us all notes, and very few examples. in fairness, she did give us a full sample paper with answers, as it was the first time she had taught the module - learning off that got me through. Lot of people failed both her in class tests.

MS3006 - History of maths - lovely module, very interesting, learning off really. Lecturer is very good imo, learning subject, but everybody was very happy coming out of the exam this year.

MS3011 - lecturer screwed us over big time in that one, told us there would be no proofs in the paper, and there was a full question on one, the in class tests were grand, but bore absolutely no resemblance to the final year exam. Was the first year he taught it as well. Lot of complaints went into him at the end of the year

MS3012 - intro to stats was there last year for third years, previous years it was MS2012 - nice module, found it very good. There is an SPSS project to do, and three homework assignments - SPSS is easy enough to use, have a complete guide in the lecture notes. Relevant things if you are looking to go and teach.

seandoiler

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

told us there would be no proofs in the paper, and there was a full question on one

having seen that exam paper....i really think you should look at what a proof really is...maybe take a look at some of the analysis courses that honours maths students take...

rebel girl 15

seandoiler wrote: »

having seen that exam paper....i really think you should look at what a proof really is...maybe take a look at some of the analysis courses that honours maths students take...

Not a full question, but there is a proof element within the paper. I don't want to look at the analysis course that "honours" maths students take.

The content of the paper bore little resemblance to the lecture notes that we had using processes to analyse the systems. The lecture notes were based on examples, with very little theoretical knowledge which was required for that paper. In comparison to MS3005, where it was all theory based, and only examples after we requested them, you could see in the paper where the knowledge was coming from. The sample paper and answers were the best thing we got as we had solid examples to base the theory on, whereas for MS3011, we had very little theory to back up the examples, all the notes and the in class tests were pretty much based on learning the processes that went into analyzing the information. Looking at previous papers, those example based notes could be manipulated in order to answer the questions, but the paper there you needed some theory based knowledge to manipulate the questions. There were very few, if any students happy with that paper, and the class rep ended up meeting with said lecturer. The previous years paper bore more resemblance to the in class tests we did

seandoiler

There is absolutely no proof element in that paper at all, the word prove is mentioned but can be easily replaced with the word demonstrate or show.

To be honest, you have just finished three years of maths in university you should know full well by now that rote learning just does not cut it in college...regardless of which subjects you take.

My mentioning of analysis proofs was just to indicate to you what people should really consider as 'proof'.

rebel girl 15

I, more than anyone else here knows that rote learning does not cut it with any level of mathematics, from secondary and university, having as well as studied mathematics as my arts subject, I have done a number of education modules, including one in the teaching of mathematics and from a pedagogical point of view, the module was very poor.

You are conveniently missing my main point about the module. My main point about the module is that we were given notes with little basis in theory and a major basis in practical application, in how to do the processes. In the other module, we were given theory, and after we asked for examples, we could see how the theory was applied within the examples. You can learn and understand the theory and apply it to any question, whereas being given little theory and pretty much all examples, you "rote learn" how to do those processes only because what else are you supposed to learn from the module, when little theory is being given - a line to explain the process and then going into examples?? The in class tests examined those processes and the application of them, so you would expect that the end of year exam would examine what we covered in class (having not been given any textbook or further reading), which was in essence those processes, but not the theory behind it. The end of year exams are assessment of learning, but how are you supposed to learn something that you don't have, and you get the impression (and in essence told) by the lecturer you don't need.

To be fair, you can comment on the paper and argue about the use of the word "proof", but you cannot comment on the content of the lecture notes and the in class tests unless you were also in the class. Looking back at the previous papers, there was major practical application of those processes examined, i.e. it examined the content of the module. I'd feel more confident taking on any of those papers than the paper that we got. It was this that angered the whole class, that we were not examined on the content of the module, whereas in every other module I took doing MS, you are examined on the content of the lecture and tutorials, and applying your knowledge to those questions, be it directly or indirectly through application of theory or recognizing processes to be used. I don't think anyone got higher than 50% in the exam, which is a reflection on the teaching and examining of the module.

seandoiler

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The end of year exams are assessment of learning, but how are you supposed to learn something that you don't have, and you get the impression (and in essence told) by the lecturer you don't need.

having not taken the class or seen the notes I can only comment on the paper as I saw it, it was very straight forward in my opinion...the end of year exams are not by the way an assessment of learning, they are an assessment of understanding...i still can't see which part of the exam caused any problems

langer91

D.unnebeatable wrote: »

Hi all, just looking for some feedback from anyone who has studied MS3001, MS3003, MS3005, MS 3006 or MS3011. I have been reading the modules guide and looking at past papers but still have no idea which 4 to choose out of the 6.MS3012 Introduction to Statistics is a new choice this year so I have found even less information about it, as to be expected I suppose. Any feedback at all would be extremely appreciated as a lot of students I know from last year have failed second year due to their module choice in Maths :eek:

im going into second year and thinking of keeping this on could you recommend what subjects to pick or give me your opinion? thanks!

D.unnebeatable

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

i did MS3005 - disaster of a module, found it very hard to understand as the lecturer gave us all notes, and very few examples. in fairness, she did give us a full sample paper with answers, as it was the first time she had taught the module - learning off that got me through. Lot of people failed both her in class tests.

MS3006 - History of maths - lovely module, very interesting, learning off really. Lecturer is very good imo, learning subject, but everybody was very happy coming out of the exam this year.

MS3011 - lecturer screwed us over big time in that one, told us there would be no proofs in the paper, and there was a full question on one, the in class tests were grand, but bore absolutely no resemblance to the final year exam. Was the first year he taught it as well. Lot of complaints went into him at the end of the year

MS3012 - intro to stats was there last year for third years, previous years it was MS2012 - nice module, found it very good. There is an SPSS project to do, and three homework assignments - SPSS is easy enough to use, have a complete guide in the lecture notes. Relevant things if you are looking to go and teach.

Thanks Rebel Girl that was exactly what I was looking for:)
We're out teaching maths this year for 2 weeks so I will certainly pick MS3012 as my only apprehension was that I thought it was new and untested for this year.
Toss up between abstract algebra and dynamical systems now! Might just go to Algebra and see what it's like (and who's teaching it;)) and then if I don't like it sure I can switch to dynamics

rebel girl 15

D.unnebeatable wrote: »

Thanks Rebel Girl that was exactly what I was looking for:)
We're out teaching maths this year for 2 weeks so I will certainly pick MS3012 as my only apprehension was that I thought it was new and untested for this year.
Toss up between abstract algebra and dynamical systems now! Might just go to Algebra and see what it's like (and who's teaching it;)) and then if I don't like it sure I can switch to dynamics

you're in BEDSS?? small world!

you must have had your orientation lecture with Sinead on Thursday?

D.unnebeatable

langer91 wrote: »

im going into second year and thinking of keeping this on could you recommend what subjects to pick or give me your opinion? thanks!

I'm doing sports studies so we have to keep on our 1 subject from first year.
Maths is harder in second year but that's to be expected really, from the feedback I got it seemed that students who done ordinary level maths for the leaving cert struggled. Personally I think you should be getting in or around 70% in the first year exam to choose to keep it on as surely by third year the maths will have gotten much harder and to be honest first year is pretty straight forward really.
A fair few people from my course now wished they'd picked a different arts subject in first year. Also some people found 2nd year Irish to be very difficult if that's any help to you. Oh and people studying History and English from my class had no complaints about their subject

As for module choice in maths all I can tell you is unless you really love geometry stay well away from it, the other 3 modules were interesting and very doable. Think they were MS2001,02 and 03.

D.unnebeatable

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

you're in BEDSS?? small world!

you must have had your orientation lecture with Sinead on Thursday?

We've been back for the week doing subject methodology, ye're out in the schools already are ye?when have ye been back since?
We're you at any of the coaching days last year?
Did you get any feedback from people doing abstract algebra or the advanced calculus module?

rebel girl 15

D.unnebeatable wrote: »

We've been back for the week doing subject methodology, ye're out in the schools already are ye?when have ye been back since?

Forgot it was a full week! yeah, we were back into college the 23rd August for lectures, then out to the schools by the end of that week!

Had a few weeks of lectures, started back into them last week, and properly this week, lectures every evening

D.unnebeatable

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Forgot it was a full week! yeah, we were back into college the 23rd August for lectures, then out to the schools by the end of that week!

Had a few weeks of lectures, started back into them last week, and properly this week, lectures every evening

Not looking forward to the early start next year, was bad enough this year! Our timetable is looking fairly thin this year, wish they'd put some of the fourth year modules into this 3rd year cause I heard 4th year is meant to be manic.

rebel girl 15

Manic isn't the word - the amount of work to do is crazy!

Last years 4th years went to the department over it because of the workload, but they were told no modules could be moved because you can only take a total of 60 credits a year

KnifeWRENCH

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

MS3006 - History of maths - lovely module, very interesting, learning off really. Lecturer is very good imo, learning subject, but everybody was very happy coming out of the exam this year.

Just to add to this; Des MacHale retired this year so it will be a new lecturer who will take over this module in 2012. Whether they'll bring in someone new or give it to one of the existing staff I don't know but I imagine the way the course is taught will change somewhat from when we did it!

rebel girl 15

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Just to add to this; Des MacHale retired this year so it will be a new lecturer who will take over this module in 2012. Whether they'll bring in someone new or give it to one of the existing staff I don't know but I imagine the way the course is taught will change somewhat from when we did it!

What??? Found him my most interesting lecturer by far

TanG411

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

What??? Found him my most interesting lecturer by far

Yep, he retired last year. His last lecture was a Wednesday at 5pm. A tutorial for Elementary Number Theory.

I know because I was there.