Is Sound Engineering a good job?

mac.book

Hi,

Is Sound Engineering a good job, could I get a job with a decent pay? Currently I'm only in fifth year secondary school, but I really want to become a sound engineer. I'm planning on taking a 2 years course in Sound Training Centre on Temple Bar. And I'm wondering, after I finish this course will I have any job opportunities(not necessarily in Ireland) or will I struggle to make a living out of it. And I know that there are no or very few and extremely low pay jobs for recording engineers in studios but there are other fields like TV, Radio, Video Games and other media. Please tell me if I'm choosing the wrong job. I love music and computers but I don't want to struggle for money in the future.

Thanks in advance

DamagedTrax

for music/studio - if you dont want to struggle then its not the job for you. it takes un questioning dedication and quite a few years of living on beans before you see any money... and thats discounting talent. for every 20 wannabe engineers you'd be lucky to see even one with the talent to produce consistantly release quality work.

other areas (post pro, gaming) will provide career/job/money a lot faster but from what i've seen you'll never quite reach the pay level that a succesful music engineer will make. (this is only from my dealings with people, i could be very wrong and others will probably have more of an idea)

if its something you really really want and dedicate your time to it then you can succeed and it is a very rewarding and fun career.

mac.book

DamagedTrax wrote: »

for music/studio - if you dont want to struggle then its not the job for you. it takes un questioning dedication and quite a few years of living on beans before you see any money... and thats discounting talent. for every 20 wannabe engineers you'd be lucky to see even one with the talent to produce consistantly release quality work.

other areas (post pro, gaming) will provide career/job/money a lot faster but from what i've seen you'll never quite reach the pay level that a succesful music engineer will make. (this is only from my dealings with people, i could be very wrong and others will probably have more of an idea)

if its something you really really want and dedicate your time to it then you can succeed and it is a very rewarding and fun career.

Thanks for the reply, I guess I can still dream about this job I've been making music since I was 13, and I'm really passionate about it. Anyway if this will go really bad I still have some solid computer programming background.

DamagedTrax

mac.book wrote: »

Anyway if this will go really bad I still have some solid computer programming background.

clever boy. having another string in the bow is definitly advisable, especially with how the industry is right now.

omen80

Yeah definitely do your software programming side of things too. Maybe do a degree in music technology rather than strict sound engineering?

Hi,

The studio work is probably the most difficult to get into, as the above post said it can take years of hard work before it pays off.

As for other work, there's plenty of live sound work but again it will take a little while to gain the experience. There's also quite a bit of Film work too which has seen most of my time but it's very different to studio or live.

As for games you will need some sort of programming background as you need to understand the programming involved in games to engineer the sound for them.

It's more demanding than most college courses in that you really need to dedicate yourself to succeed and it also takes a lot longer before it begins to pay off as opposed to engineering for instance as you might walk into a paying job after leaving college... Nobody from my course has done that unless they have gone freelance which is no guarantee of income.

Hope that helps.

mac.book

Thanks for the advice everyone

mkegvn

If its what you want to do, go for it. I'm starting out at the moment in this industry and I'm working several jobs FOR FREE, just to put them on the CV, and....I love every minute of it. Cannot wait to make a proper living from this. Follow your heart I say.

omen80

mkegvn wrote: »

If its what you want to do, go for it. I'm starting out at the moment in this industry and I'm working several jobs FOR FREE, just to put them on the CV, and....I love every minute of it. Cannot wait to make a proper living from this. Follow your heart I say.

Yes follow your heart, but have something to fall back on if it doesn't work out. Sometimes things don't go the way you want them to, and there are many sound engineers who have normal day jobs to make ends meet.

Hayte

Agree with many of the above posters except I don't even think its a question of hard work. To become a professional in any field requires that you meet certain standards, which are only achievable with years of structured learning and then years of putting that learning into practice.

Some professions have a very direct route from leaning to practice - eg. Medicine and other apprenticed professions like Law and Engineering. Law is down recently due to the economy and the reliance on buying/selling property that Irish law firms had during the boom years. So getting into this profession is a bit more difficult now as Irish law firms retool and build up in different practice directions. Many firms have been shrinking over the past 3 years making it harder for someone to get in with no experience. If you know someone who already works in the industry you will have a natural advantage because business in this country has a strong emphasis on sociability. There is also quite alot of nepotism, so if you are a known face or a related person, you are much more likely to pick up grunt work than any random CV. I work in a small law firm and 6 of the past 8 trainee solicitors were known faces before they even started (either relatives, or friends of relatives or friends/relatives of professional associates). The two random CVs were picked up prior to 2007 when the firm was still growing on the back of the housing market. At that point the firm was interested in taking on trainees to dump licensing and district court debt collection on so they could turn solicitors full time onto conveyancing and high court litigation which generated alot of fee income.

Sound engineering is also an apprenticed profession but its been hard to get into for a long time as commercial music sales trend down, industry lay offs trend up and as long as Ireland has banking problems because you are not likely to put up the venture capital required to start your own studio. The economy right now is also quite hostile to start ups and the self employed so if you can't make your business work, it will really hurt you.

I used to recommend skilling up in things you are good at and which you enjoy. Right now, I think its best to skill up in areas you are good at and which there is commercial demand for. In Ireland theres alot more opportunities in Biotech and Computer software design if you happen to have an affinity or an interest in these things. You can always learn sound design and engineering in your spare time. If you secure a good, steady wage, its money you can funnel into sound engineering training and eventually even your own start up if thats what you want to do.

I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket however because plenty of people work very hard at getting into this game, and they don't get anywhere. Its not because they haven't worked hard enough, its just the way it is. If theres one contract up for grabs and 10 interns grabbing at it, 9 of them are just going to come away empty handed.

*NEVER* work for free. It pains me to see people value their time so little that they would give away their labour for nothing. It pains me to see people put faith in the inherent good in their employer not to take advantage of them.

Unpaid internships in the music industry are something I am very disappointed in because there is a culture of it in places like Gearslutz. You should be very wary about the terms of such employment and you should ask about performance criteria and whether you will be kept on, on a salaried or contract basis if you do well in your internship. You will probably be laughed at or they will point out that you don't deserve to get paid until you are skilled enough to provide value to the business. However, this is expressly against the point of an internship which is to benefit the intern, otherwise there are some difficult legal and ethical questions to contend with. I would be very wary of working for people that pull that logic on you because their interest is their business and they are skirting a fine line when it comes to minimum wage laws. If you find yourself displacing employees then thats a red flag right there.

In non growth industries the use of unpaid internships is a grey area that functions essentially as a substitute for paid employees.

I don't know anyone that can work for any significant length of time without remuneration so I don't think this is something that many people will even have the opportunity to do. You need to have fairly substantial financial security (rich parents or inheritance?) to work for nothing. I don't think very highly of people that are so willing to give away their only useful asset (their labour) for nothing. If you get something out of it, then I'm happy for you, but I rather believe that many others won't get anything other than more indebted.

In the end if the consumer demand isn't there, the work isn't there. If the work isn't there, then theres no need to hire. If theres no need to hire and you are looking for a job in that industry then good luck. If there has been no need to hire for a long time and the industry looks like its going to continue shrinking in the future, then god have mercy on your soul.

mkegvn

Hayte, Great post!

At the end of the day though, there is heaps of work out there for the right studio/engineer at the moment.

In the studio I'm working in at the moment (one of the jobs I do actually get paid for) we're booked solid 7 days a week right up until Christmas, and we'll have enough bits and bobs work to keep us going until April at least.

I know that this is just one place, but having an producer and engineer with a rep is drawing in the business. If I have to work for free for a while to earn my rep, so be it. I'm happy to do that.

Hayte

Thats ok, just don't let them use you. You may not know it when you are starting out, but your time and your labour is worth alot more than nothing. You got further in than I did so good luck dude and all the best for the future.

Welease

ppower?? wrote: »

I work in Bose sound mecanics and there are loads of jobs going here in Dublin i am a HR manager for them and is finding it hard to recruit suitable people..so if any of ye posting on this link would like to get in contact with me at 0876897819 but a full degree in sound engineering is required.

I'm guessing this is a poor joke...as you misspelt "mechanics"... and you have posted on another non related thread giving out the same mobile number .. And noone serious about hiring for a multi national gives out their personal mobile number!

Back to the OP... you need to define what you consider as "decent pay"... there are far easier ways to earn considerable pay, but they may not be as fulfilling...

livemuse

Hey I know I am a bit late in this thread but I actually studied at the college in question. It is an amazing experience and I have done well from it. It is very hard to find work in this field but if you stick at it and if you are good then you will make contacts and do some assisting work with some good producers. I also was involved in the making of a charity album which was a massive success. Id def say go for it but no harm in having other options if you are not that into it. expensive but I promise it is worth it. you get what you put into it. If you dont work at it you wont get where you want. ask any questions.....i know the full team up there too so ask away. hope this helps.

pistonsvox

I found it helped that I made it my obsession, and that drive got me some pretty cool gigs!:pac:

peter05

I would be in agreement with Hayte "never work for free" , If you looking to get into the studio and see what you can get from it, Is it primarily set up for a niche market? what are you going to get from it? better understanding of what process? go in for a couple of weeks learn what you need and move on. This way you avoid hanging around getting annoyed.

Maybe the DIY circuit is an option. But am guessing punk rock/hardcore is not every bodies cup of tea. If you take a look at most of the lasting engineers of the past 20 years you will see a vast majority have worked at ground level and earned their credentials by doing some amazing DIY stuff.

PaulBrewer

In short 'Yes' !
As a rule music people are fun to be around and there's always something to learn.

Is it a good 'career' in 2012 .... ? Hmm

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

In short 'Yes' !
As a rule music people are fun to be around and there's always something to learn.

Yes. Generally, music people are fun to be around. And they genuinely love what they're doing.

People in the office supplies business are generally not fun to be around (I have worked in the office supplies business). They do not like what they do. And they do not like you. And they will let you know that every minute of everyday, the whole life long year around.

Is it a good 'career' in 2012 .... ? Hmm

If you've got you're foot in already, and you can hustle for work (hustle in a good way) I would say it beats the **** out of the office supplies business.

And....people who are more suited to the world of office supplies, really should stick to it.

PaulBrewer

I've not tried Office Supply .......................yet.

TroutMask

Live sound is a good job if you are competent and enjoy doing it. Keep one eye to the future, have a plan B and don't spend too long working for a sound company (like, learn what you have to learn and get out); unless, of course, they are an awesome company like Clair Brothers. You can do quite well if you go solo and create a client base. You'll end up having to buy your own gear if you work venues in Ireland as many of them are missing important components such as gates, compressors, proper EQs, decent FX, good DIs etc (even proper mics and stands!). Still, this never bothered me, I diverted some of the gig money back into my rig and ended up with a nice FOH FX rack and a bunch of mics, stands and other audio items. This collection will create your 'signature sound', word will travel and you'll get hired more often. I'm out of live sound now, but still have my FX rack & mixers and use them when location recording for a high-quality live room-mix. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the 'don't work for free' brigade. Internships can be valuable opportunities to work with great people. A good internship scenario benefits the intern and the host organisation. Use your judgment and instincts to assess whether the internship is a good one or not. I trained an intern years ago - now he's on tour with The Wall and we're still in touch. Oh, and wear earplugs - they're the only reason I can still hear :pac:

krd

TroutMask wrote: »

Oh, and wear earplugs - they're the only reason I can still hear :pac:

Honestly....Was it really anything to do with your hearing, or was it your sanity?

I can imagine giving it loads....And looking across the room to you behind the desk - kind of blank, blissful and serene, fistfuls of blue tack in your ears.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I've not tried Office Supply .......................yet.

It's not all it's cracked up to be...............More sex and drugs than rock'n'roll though.