Stick with BE switch BSc & ME?

kebn

Hi there,

I’m not sure if many of you are familiar with the changes taking place with engineering degrees but I’d greatly appreciate some advice here. I’m a 4th year mechanical student in UCD (at the moment) in what is probably the last year of the bachelor’s program in UCD (being the default option at least).

The old program, the BE (4 years), is being phased out over the next few years in UCD (and most probably the rest of the universities in the country). The program replacing it involves a BSc in Engineering Science (3 years) and an ME in a chosen discipline (2 Years). The new program is most definitely easier than the old one, with it being quite easy to avoid almost all of the difficult subjects and, to me, appears to be the same old 4 year course, only done in 5 with a short work placement and a research based project.

Just a few days ago :mad: it was brought to my year’s attention that anyone graduating in 2012 with the old BE will soon be competing with those graduating with MEs under the new program and we now have the chance to convert. 1 year masters programs are no longer offered in most Irish and European universities and BE graduates aren’t eligible to take the 2 year one since there aren’t enough modules left for them to do! Now I’m rather concerned about this and my question is:

How is the new ME viewed in industry compared to the old BE and should I switch over now that the opportunity has been presented by UCD?

The area I’d ultimately like to end up in is Biomedical Engineering/Cybernetics. I know there is a Bioengineering (MSc) on offer for one year between 5 universities in Ireland, so I do have a plan B here along with the possibility of going for an MSc in Cybernetics at University of Reading.

Thanks in advance.

Darren1o1

kebn wrote: »

Hi there,

I’m not sure if many of you are familiar with the changes taking place with engineering degrees but I’d greatly appreciate some advice here. I’m a 4th year mechanical student in UCD (at the moment) in what is probably the last year of the bachelor’s program in UCD (being the default option at least).

The old program, the BE (4 years), is being phased out over the next few years in UCD (and most probably the rest of the universities in the country). The program replacing it involves a BSc in Engineering Science (3 years) and an ME in a chosen discipline (2 Years). The new program is most definitely easier than the old one, with it being quite easy to avoid almost all of the difficult subjects and, to me, appears to be the same old 4 year course, only done in 5 with a short work placement and a research based project.

Just a few days ago :mad: it was brought to my year’s attention that anyone graduating in 2012 with the old BE will soon be competing with those graduating with MEs under the new program and we now have the chance to convert. 1 year masters programs are no longer offered in most Irish and European universities and BE graduates aren’t eligible to take the 2 year one since there aren’t enough modules left for them to do! Now I’m rather concerned about this and my question is:

How is the new ME viewed in industry compared to the old BE and should I switch over now that the opportunity has been presented by UCD?

The area I’d ultimately like to end up in is Biomedical Engineering/Cybernetics. I know there is a Bioengineering (MSc) on offer for one year between 5 universities in Ireland, so I do have a plan B here along with the possibility of going for an MSc in Cybernetics at University of Reading.

Thanks in advance.

I know DCU decided to do 4+1 apposed to 3+2. This I believe was to fund the students as long as possible under the "Free" fees scheme. I believe they are doing a 1 yr masters addition to their BE program. Plus there will be Engineers Ireland courses design to bring you to the same level.

bnt

kebn wrote: »

The old program, the BE (4 years), is being phased out over the next few years in UCD (and most probably the rest of the universities in the country). The program replacing it involves a BSc in Engineering Science (3 years) and an ME in a chosen discipline (2 Years). The new program is most definitely easier than the old one, with it being quite easy to avoid almost all of the difficult subjects and, to me, appears to be the same old 4 year course, only done in 5 with a short work placement and a research based project.

If the the UCD Structural Engineering programme is any guide, doing a 3+2 programme is not "easier", since it's still 5 years work in 5 years. (Work placement is still work - you can't just coast through, you have to earn the credits. Ditto for research work.) Besides, how do you define "difficult subjects"? What is difficult for you might not be difficult for someone else.

As for what industry thinks - it's my understanding that many of the changes are in response to industry feedback in the first place. There's a need for engineering graduates that are more rounded and haven't spent five years studying theory, regardless of how "difficult" the theory is. More "soft skills" are desired. Note that from 2012 Engineers Ireland will require a 5Y ME for all engineers seeking Chartership, and it doesn't matter whether it's 3+2 or 4+1. But I would not be so quick to say the changes are going to make it any easier.

kebn

Firstly, thanks all for the input, very much appreciate it.

(EDIT: Sorry, should add that Struc Eng is a very different story altogether, that's an entirely different entry route in UCD)

bnt wrote: »

Work placement is still work - you can't just coast through, you have to earn the credits. Ditto for research work.

Wouldn't that depend entirely on the placement itself? My concern here is that UCD are going to have to scramble to arrange placements for an additional 40 people should most of us decide to switch over now and we could be left with donkey work, working in places that don't really need us. I've done 3 work placements for each of the 3 summers of my time in this course. Sometimes I'd be doing really useful stuff, working really hard to meet deadlines on interesting projects and getting invaluable experience. Other times I'd be photocopying and stapling for most of the summer. I don't know much about how credited work placements work though.

Besides, how do you define "difficult subjects"? What is difficult for you might not be difficult for someone else.

Good point but I would definitely differentiate between the workload and level of maths required between courses. In the current eng science program it's possible to coast off of 1st and 2nd level courses from each engineering discipline and enter a masters in, say, mechanical without having ever taken subjects like applied dynamics or continuum mechanics, entirely up to the individual however. I can see the advantage of well roundedness but it comes at a cost and seems contradict the idea of doing a masters in the first place.

As for what industry thinks - it's my understanding that many of the changes are in response to industry feedback in the first place. There's a need for engineering graduates that are more rounded and haven't spent five years studying theory, regardless of how "difficult" the theory is.

From what we were told it had something to do with with some "Bologna Agreement" set in 1999 (that started it off anyway). I could be wrong here, especially about the name.

More "soft skills" are desired.

Soft skills?

Note that from 2012 Engineers Ireland will require a 5Y ME for all engineers seeking Chartership, and it doesn't matter whether it's 3+2 or 4+1. But I would not be so quick to say the changes are going to make it any easier.

I'm aware of this but the big problem for me is that UCD have terminated all of the 1 year programs. I'd much rather leave university with both a BE and an ME but it looks as though I'd have to look elsewhere for that...

Thanks again, I have some big decisions to make this week... still unsure as to which route to take.

Turbulent Bill

kebn wrote: »

The old program, the BE (4 years), is being phased out over the next few years in UCD (and most probably the rest of the universities in the country). The program replacing it involves a BSc in Engineering Science (3 years) and an ME in a chosen discipline (2 Years). The new program is most definitely easier than the old one, with it being quite easy to avoid almost all of the difficult subjects and, to me, appears to be the same old 4 year course, only done in 5 with a short work placement and a research based project.


How is the new ME viewed in industry compared to the old BE and should I switch over now that the opportunity has been presented by UCD?

The area I’d ultimately like to end up in is Biomedical Engineering/Cybernetics. I know there is a Bioengineering (MSc) on offer for one year between 5 universities in Ireland, so I do have a plan B here along with the possibility of going for an MSc in Cybernetics at University of Reading.

Personally I'd stick with the BE and then go onto the MSc you actually want, rather than switching courses just to get the same letters as newer graduates. I've no idea how the ME is viewed, but at a guess most employers won't differentiate between an ME, MSc etc. - a masters is a masters in their eyes. At least if you do the MSc you'll build competancies in the areas you're interested in, rather than just general ones that the ME offers, something that employers definitely notice.