Private insurance, Taxi Tax

cojack101

Hi all, looking for some advice.

Out of work, and my uncle took pity on me. He's a taxi driver and said if i get a private motor policy he'll let me drive his car for pleasure the days that hes not working.

Question is = is it legal for me to drive on a private motor policy, in a car thats taxed as a taxi.

I dont want to get done at a checkpoint!

Any help much apprechiated, cant find info on it anywhere.

mickdw

Thats an odd question. Would you not go to work for him driving his car instead.
And just in case you are wondering, you wont be able to buy a car yourself, insure it privately and then get uncle to tax it.

oldyouth

But for you to get a private motor policy you have to get it on a vehicle YOU own. You can't take one out on your uncles car

cojack101

oldyouth wrote: »

But for you to get a private motor policy you have to get it on a vehicle YOU own. You can't take one out on your uncles car

Perfect thats that answers it in one!

Cheers!

cojack101

mickdw wrote: »

And just in case you are wondering, you wont be able to buy a car yourself, insure it privately and then get uncle to tax it.

Moi? I'm sweaky clean. *shifty eyes*

CiniO

If a vehicle is taxed as a taxi, it can not be used for any private purposes at any time.

Where To

CiniO wrote: »

If a vehicle is taxed as a taxi, it can not be used for any private purposes at any time.

:eek:
I better hand myself in so.

A taxi can be used for private, domestic and social purposes just like any other car.
It can only be operated as a taxi by a person with a SPSV driver licensce but anyone can drive it privately(if properly insured of course)

CiniO

where do i go from here wrote: »

:eek:
I better hand myself in so.

A taxi can be used for private, domestic and social purposes just like any other car.
It can only be operated as a taxi by a person with a SPSV driver licensce but anyone can drive it privately(if properly insured of course)

All above probably true, assuming it's taxed as private.
If it's taxed as taxi at a rate of €82 (not sure if price is right) you can't use it for any other purpose than a taxi.
The same applies to hackneys.

Where To

CiniO wrote: »

All above probably true, assuming it's taxed as private.
If it's taxed as taxi at a rate of €82 (not sure if price is right) you can't use it for any other purpose than a taxi.
The same applies to hackneys.

Sorry misread your post.

However I know of manys a taxi driver who has their spouse insured privately on their taxi(even though they never drive it) in order to get a cheaper premium.

Strange or wha?

CiniO

where do i go from here wrote: »

Source?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0024/print.html

6. Vehicles other than those charged with duty under the foregoing provisions of this Part of this Schedule:

(a) any vehicle which is used as a hearse and for no other purpose,
€88
(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi) which is used as a small public service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for no other purpose,
€82
(c) any vehicle which is fitted with a taximeter and is lawfully used as a street service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for purposes incidental to such use and for no other purpose,
€82

Above shows you what kind of vehicles can be taxed as taxi or hackney.
It is mentioned clearly for what they have to be used, and clearly says: "and for no other purpose".

Where To

Edited above:D

CiniO

where do i go from here wrote: »

Sorry misread your post.

However I know of manys a taxi driver who has their spouse insured privately on their taxi(even though they never drive it) in order to get a cheaper premium.

Strange or wha?

I don't get it.
Cheaper premium for taxi driver on his taxi insurance, or cheaper premium for spouse?

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0024/print.html



Above shows you what kind of vehicles can be taxed as taxi or hackney.
It is mentioned clearly for what they have to be used, and clearly says: "and for no other purpose".

"and for purposes incidental to such use" might be the get-out that allows some private use such as using the car as the family car so long as the car's main use is as a taxi. If the car spends 8-10 hrs a day working but only 1 hr ferrying the kids around, then the private use could conceivably be considered incidental.

Where To

CiniO wrote: »

I don't get it.
Cheaper premium for taxi driver on his taxi insurance, or cheaper premium for spouse?

I don't get it either.

Yep taxi insurance is cheaper if you have your spouse insured privately on the vehicle.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

"and for purposes incidental to such use" might be the get-out that allows some private use such as using the car as the family car so long as the car's main use is as a taxi. If the car spends 8-10 hrs a day working but only 1 hr ferrying the kids around, then the private use could conceivably be considered incidental.

All right, but if what you are saying is true, then we are coming round the circle to the old know problem of commercially taxed vans being used for private purposes.
As from the same SI which I quoted above we have this:

Vehicles (including tricycles weighing more than 500 kilograms unladen) constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of goods or burden of any other description in the course of trade or business (including agriculture and the performance by a local or public authority of its functions) and vehicles constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement by or in which goods being conveyed by such a vehicle are processed or manufactured while the vehicle is in motion—

As in this descripion, there is not even mentioned that vehicle has to be used solely for above purposes, and neither there is a text "and for no other purposes".

So the same logic would say, that vans can be used for private purposes as well.

Spook_ie

slimjimmc wrote: »

"and for purposes incidental to such use" might be the get-out that allows some private use such as using the car as the family car so long as the car's main use is as a taxi. If the car spends 8-10 hrs a day working but only 1 hr ferrying the kids around, then the private use could conceivably be considered incidental.

Incidental use Mmmm depends on the context it's used in

incidental [ˌɪnsɪˈdɛntəl]
adj
1. happening in connection with or resulting from something more important; casual or fortuitous
2. (postpositive; foll by to) found in connection (with); related (to)
3. (postpositive; foll by upon) caused (by)
4. occasional or minor incidental expenses

Ferrying the kids around probably wouldn't be incidental use, whereas driving the car to a garage for repair/testing etc. would be

corktina

"and for purposes incidental to such use" means taking it to the garage to get a service and that sort of thing. (ie times when its not actually in use as a taxi but what its doing has a valid connection to it being a taxi.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

All right, but if what you are saying is true, then we are coming round the circle to the old know problem of commercially taxed vans being used for private purposes.
As from the same SI which I quoted above we have this:


As in this descripion, there is not even mentioned that vehicle has to be used solely for above purposes, and neither there is a text "and for no other purposes".

So the same logic would say, that vans can be used for private purposes as well.

Not the same logic, the act states an unambiguous exemption of "incidental use" for taxis and only taxis, the problem is that it doesn't define what can be considered "incidental". I suppose that's intentionally left that way so the Revenue people can make their own assessment.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Incidental use Mmmm depends on the context it's used in

incidental [ˌɪnsɪˈdɛntəl]
adj
1. happening in connection with or resulting from something more important; casual or fortuitous
2. (postpositive; foll by to) found in connection (with); related (to)
3. (postpositive; foll by upon) caused (by)
4. occasional or minor incidental expenses

Ferrying the kids around probably wouldn't be incidental use, whereas driving the car to a garage for repair/testing etc. would be

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incidental
in·ci·den·tal   [in-si-den-tl] Show IPA
adjective
1. happening or likely to happen in an unplanned or subordinate conjunction with something else.
2. incurred casually and in addition to the regular or main amount: incidental expenses.
3. likely to happen or naturally appertaining (usually followed by to ). noun
4. something incidental, as a circumstance.
5. incidentals, minor expenses.

There are more definitions all equally valid, and yes context is important, like I said previously a relatively small amount of personal use may be considered incidental to the main use as a spv.

corktina wrote: »

"and for purposes incidental to such use" means taking it to the garage to get a service and that sort of thing. (ie times when its not actually in use as a taxi but what its doing has a valid connection to it being a taxi.

I wouldn't be so sure, Sect 6b doesn't provide exemption for "incidental use" for hackneys and it's not illegal to drive a hackney to the garage for a service, or is it?

It strikes me as strange as to why there should be any difference in tax rules between a hackney and taxi, both should be dedicated purely as work vehicles with zero other use permitted, incidental or otherwise. Any ideas on what incidental use a taxi can be put to that a hackney can't?

Esel

I'd say Michael O'Leary's legal team are following this thread...