Appearing in court as witness. Do my employers have to pay me?

dublin 16 lad

Hi Folks

Hope someone can clear this one up for me

1 year ago I witnessed some getting hit by a car. Unfortunatey, a few days later, the person died as a result of the injuries sutained. I gave a witness report to the gardai and just a few days ago I received a letter in person stating that I have to appear at the court case. The driver is being done for dangerous driving causing Death

I'm just wondering what the situation is with work and the day(s) off I will need to attend the case. Are my employer obligated to pay me for these days off or will I have to use some of my holidays for the time off? I have asked my boss but he is unsure and said he'll get back to me

Thanks

January

Contact NERA but I think whoever called you as witness will pay you expenses for appearing...

dermot_sheehan

your expenses should have been tendered with the sub poena/witness summons

coylemj

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

your expenses should have been tendered with the sub poena/witness summons

Don't think so. If the OP is being summonsed as a prosecution witness in a criminal case of dangerous driving then he'll have to sort out expenses after the event.

I certainly agree that I'd want cash in hand before I'd go to give evidence in a civil suit.

deandean

This happeded to me 2 years back, I was the only witness to a serious RTA. I got a subpoena from a Solicitor along with a 30 Euro cheque (injured party taking on the Uninsured Motor body).

I asked for a reasonable days expenses, was told 'Yea we'll sort it out on the day', I kept on being put off, it ended up costing me a day's leave and money out of pocket. Feckin' Solicitor never replied to me again.

I have to say the process has put me off even presenting myself as a witness in future :mad:

coylemj

deandean wrote: »

This happeded to me 2 years back, I was the only witness to a serious RTA. I got a subpoena from a Solicitor along with a 30 Euro cheque (injured party taking on the Uninsured Motor body).

I asked for a reasonable days expenses, was told 'Yea we'll sort it out on the day', I kept on being put off, it ended up costing me a day's leave and money out of pocket. Feckin' Solicitor never replied to me again.

I have to say the process has put me off even presenting myself as a witness in future :mad:

When someone takes a civil suit, their solicitor often has to ask them to fork out cash in advance for witnesses. I believe medical witnesses for example would never allow themselves to be in your position i.e. having to chase up a solicitor for expenses after the event so they ask for cash up front.

The trouble with giving evidence first and asking for expenses afterwards is that if the guy who calls you loses the case, you are effectively screwed because most times there is no money to pay you.

The solicitor might be taking the case on a contingency ('no foal, no fee') basis in which case he is taking a risk but there's no need for you to take on a similar risk.

Even if he wins they mightn't bother putting you down on the list of expenses so you just get forgotten about. In other situations, by the time you ask them for payment they've already settled on costs so you get left behind.

Don't say 'never again', say 'expenses in advance please'.

Milk & Honey

deandean wrote: »

This happeded to me 2 years back, I was the only witness to a serious RTA. I got a subpoena from a Solicitor along with a 30 Euro cheque (injured party taking on the Uninsured Motor body).

I asked for a reasonable days expenses, was told 'Yea we'll sort it out on the day', I kept on being put off, it ended up costing me a day's leave and money out of pocket. Feckin' Solicitor never replied to me again.

I have to say the process has put me off even presenting myself as a witness in future :mad:

Write to the Law Society.

nutts_77

coylemj wrote: »

When someone takes a civil suit, their solicitor often has to ask them to fork out cash in advance for witnesses. I believe medical witnesses for example would never allow themselves to be in your position i.e. having to chase up a solicitor for expenses after the event so they ask for cash up front.

The trouble with giving evidence first and asking for expenses afterwards is that if the guy who calls you loses the case, you are effectively screwed because most times there is no money to pay you.

The solicitor might be taking the case on a contingency ('no foal, no fee') basis in which case he is taking a risk but there's no need for you to take on a similar risk.

Even if he wins they mightn't bother putting you down on the list of expenses so you just get forgotten about. In other situations, by the time you ask them for payment they've already settled on costs so you get left behind.

Don't say 'never again', say 'expenses in advance please'.

If your are left in the position that your are owed expenses after a civil case, have you any options for recovering these expenses? Possibly the small claims court??

And if so, who is liable? The person involved in the civil case or his solicitor who summonsed you?

coylemj

nutts_77 wrote: »

If your are left in the position that your are owed expenses after a civil case, have you any options for recovering these expenses? Possibly the small claims court??

And if so, who is liable? The person involved in the civil case or his solicitor who summonsed you?

I would expect that if you were called by the plaintiff and he lost the case then you have to chase him personally for the expenses. If the plaintiff wins the case then typically he gets awarded costs in which case you would submit a claim for expenses to his solicitor and you get included in the list of costs that the defendant has to pay. Then when the defendant pays up the plaintiff's solicitor should forward your expenses to you.

If you don't get paid then I'm not sure how you pursue it. Whether the plaintiff wins or loses you are entitled to your expenses so I would demand payment upfront which is the practice with most professionals who get called to give expert testimony.

Ken.

From what i can gather from the op, they've been called by the gardai as a witness.

When i had to go as a witness for the gardai a few years ago the garda asked me on the morning of the case how much i earn per day. I told him around €120.

When the guy(drunk driver,3rd time caught) was called he pleaded guilty and the judge banned him and fined him €3000. The prosecuting garda then said to the judge "i have a witness who's taken the day off work to help us".Judge asked how much expenses and readjusted the guys fine to €3120. I got it as a cheque from the gardai about 6 weeks later.

To sum up, if your a witness for the gardai contact the garda who took your statement about expenses.

deandean

lucyfur09 wrote: »

From what i can gather from the op, they've been called by the gardai as a witness.

When i had to go as a witness for the gardai a few years ago the garda asked me on the morning of the case how much i earn per day. I told him around €120.

When the guy(drunk driver,3rd time caught) was called he pleaded guilty and the judge banned him and fined him €3000. The prosecuting garda then said to the judge "i have a witness who's taken the day off work to help us".Judge asked how much expenses and readjusted the guys fine to €3120. I got it as a cheque from the gardai about 6 weeks later.

To sum up, if your a witness for the gardai contact the garda who took your statement about expenses.

Good post. That's the proper way for the system to work.

coylemj

deandean wrote: »

Good post. That's the proper way for the system to work.

+1 I think the thread got sidetracked when a later poster talked about his experience in a civil case. Clearly the OP could have done with that advice from lucyfur09 before he went to court.

However.... suppose the Gardai call you as a witness and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you then recoup your expenses?

Sempai

coylemj wrote: »

+1 I think the thread got sidetracked when a later poster talked about his experience in a civil case. Clearly the OP could have done with that advice from lucyfur09 before he went to court.

However.... suppose the Gardai call you as a witness and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you then recoup your expenses?

witness is still entitled to their expenses. It'll be paid for by the state. The OP should get a letter from an accountant for the firm he works for / or whoever pays the wages stating how much he will be at a loss for that day. As far as I remember there's travel expenses, but with certain conditions. Give the letter to the Garda who will complete a form and send it up through the channels for payment.

microgirl

Hi, sorry to hijack this thread but it's so much the same as what I need to know that I was reluctant to start a new thread.

Basically I'm in a similar position to the OP - summonsed as witness in the case of lads breaking into and trying to hotwire husband's car. We disturbed them, they ran off, guards drove me round area til we found them and they were stopped.

I turned up on the day, although the defendants didn't so the case just got adjourned. However, HR in my organisation is claiming that I have to take Annual Leave or Time-in-Lieu Negative for the time involved. The reasoning given for this is that the court pay my expenses and loss of earnings.

As far as I can ascertain my employer is supposed to give me the time off and I am explicitly not supposed to have to use Annual Leave, but it's hard to find anything concrete as everything on (for example) citizensinformation.ie pertains to Jury Service, not appearing as a witness. Apart from that though, HR's explanation patently makes no sense as, if the reason for taking Annual Leave rather than Unpaid or Approved leave is that the courts would be paying me, then that would mean I'd be paid twice for the day, as work pay you when you're on Annual Leave!

Can anyone confirm or deny or straighten out once and for all for me whether or not my employer is legally obliged to give me the time off (paid or unpaid, I don't care) or whether they can force me to take Annual Leave for a witness appearance. Especially since this is going to happen again since the case still has to appear before the courts. It's not the money that's bothering me, just losing my Annual Leave erroneously (in my belief) (and the principle that surely HR personnel should know the regulations and legalities of something before making a blanket statement that makes no sense )

Also, if someone could point me at something that states it in simple, straightforward terms that I can present to HR as evidence, that would be great.

Victor

They have to give you the time off, seeing as you are being summonsed by the court.

The niceties of how you agree as to whether you take annual leave or unpaid leave is between you and your employer.

microgirl

Victor wrote: »

They have to give you the time off, seeing as you are being summonsed by the court.

The niceties of how you agree as to whether you take annual leave or unpaid leave is between you and your employer.

Thanks Victor. Thought it would be more clear-cut, as for jury service (where you're definitely not meant to use annual leave for it) but fair enough - I shall try prevailing upon the *ahem* sense of decency of HR