Accident in Oranmore - Ambulance came from Ballinasloe

scholar007

Did this really happen? It's kind of hard to believe. Are ambos really lying idle in Galway and if so why?

http://www.galwaynews.ie/21433-emergency-victim-left-waiting-while-ambulance-lies-idle

Paulzx

scholar007 wrote: »

Did this really happen? It's kind of hard to believe. Are ambos really lying idle in Galway and if so why?

http://www.galwaynews.ie/21433-emergency-victim-left-waiting-while-ambulance-lies-idle

Its hard to believe that there are not enough ambulances and the service is completely overstretched?......

Eh..........no its not hard to believe because its true

groundhurling

Only 10 ambulances covering the whole county? Now I don't know the hospital very well but when I was there last year there were way more than 10 ambulances in the uch station alone.

CB19Kevo

There might be more than 10 ambulances at the station.
But there will not be the crews to run them.
Also many of the vehicles are likely reserve, Incident support and rapid response vehicles.

BrianD

groundhurling wrote: »

Only 10 ambulances covering the whole county? Now I don't know the hospital very well but when I was there last year there were way more than 10 ambulances in the uch station alone.

Why would 10 ambulances not be enough?

1:25000 ratio. Seems to be in line with ratios abroad.

It's only a rough rule of thumb though and depends on the urban/rural population split.

Paulzx

BrianD wrote: »

Why would 10 ambulances not be enough?

.

They sort of need Paramedics to crew them

scholar007

CB19Kevo wrote: »

There might be more than 10 ambulances at the station.
But there will not be the crews to run them.
Also many of the vehicles are likely reserve, Incident support and rapid response vehicles.

Based on the traffic in Galway today (Fri 16th Sept) its a miracle they get any ambos out of the regional at all. I saw a PTS bus stuck in a 2 mile long tailback heading for the bridge. Maybe its actually more logical to bring them in from outlying stations as Galway is gridlocked at the best of times. I don't even see how a rapid response vehicle could have made any difference today - Galway city council need to get their act together on the traffic methinks.

flazio

There really should be a second ambulance base in the city. The Corrib can be very hard to cross at certaain times. Merlin Park perhaps?

scholar007

flazio wrote: »

There really should be a second ambulance base in the city. The Corrib can be very hard to cross at certaain times. Merlin Park perhaps?

That's not a bad idea actually! They certainly have enough space up there.

antichrist

As Paulzx states....we need paramedics to crew them. You need to have back-up ambulances in case of breakdowns..for change of shift...etc...not every ambulance is crewed at all times. As for a second base in Merlin...it took long enough for them to get started on Tuam!!

challengemaster

groundhurling wrote: »

Only 10 ambulances covering the whole county? Now I don't know the hospital very well but when I was there last year there were way more than 10 ambulances in the uch station alone.

I walk through the grounds roughly every 2-3 days, I've never stopped to count but I reckon there's atleast 10-15 parked up, and obviously some out and about...must check the next time I walk by

As for traffic in galway - the roadworks haven't made it as much worse as that article seems to be implying, the road network is dire in the first place...

flazio

Well how about instead of making an additional base in Merlin, moving the UCH base to Merlin, OK I mightn't have statistics to hand but surely the majority of call outs are for places on the East side of the city and beyond? plus response times to incidents on the Motorway, where any injuries are likely to be severe, or indeed any incidents in Oranmore, Athenry, Claregalway etc, would get a much faster response in peak traffic times if the ambulance was sent out from there, and with bus lanes heading into the city you have easier access to in city incidents.

scholar007

flazio wrote: »

Well how about instead of making an additional base in Merlin, moving the UCH base to Merlin, OK I mightn't have statistics to hand but surely the majority of call outs are for places on the East side of the city and beyond? plus response times to incidents on the Motorway, where any injuries are likely to be severe, or indeed any incidents in Oranmore, Athenry, Claregalway etc, would get a much faster response in peak traffic times if the ambulance was sent out from there, and with bus lanes heading into the city you have easier access to in city incidents.

Could you imagine the craic there would be now if somebody tried that?

Don't get me wrong, I agree totally with you that there should be a proper base in Merlin. Anyone proactive with any idea of forward planning would have seen that years ago.

First you would have to get management involved - take about six months to a year to get anywhere on it, statistics would have to be trotted out to justify it. Meeting after meeting - maybe even a bit of mileage thrown in! There may be planning issues, another 18 months gone. Negotiate with the union (disturbance money ya know, there would have to be an agreed location for the boys and girls to have their breaks - Supermacs Merlin Park instead of Supermacs across from the regional), another six to twelve months gone.

Decide where the base is going to be in the grounds - probably need a study of some sort and consultants hired in to identify the best possible location. An Taisce or some other crowd might highlight the existence of a neolithic prehistoric lesser spotted crannog and try to get the idea spiked!

Traffic impact - Galway city Council (OMG) would have to get their spake in. Traffic lights (of the intelligent variety) may be required at the gates of Merlin.

Paulzx

challengemaster wrote: »

I walk through the grounds roughly every 2-3 days, I've never stopped to count but I reckon there's atleast 10-15 parked up, and obviously some out and about...must check the next time I walk by

As for traffic in galway - the roadworks haven't made it as much worse as that article seems to be implying, the road network is dire in the first place...

As has been already said, the amount of vehicles you see in that base is completely irrelevant. The amount of crews on duty at any one time is the only relevant point.

You can say you seen 100 ambulances parked up in the base but they will be feck all use unless staff are on duty

Tango Alpha 51

+1 paulie !.

scholar007

In the same article:

"This newspaper has learned of another recent ‘999’ incident 15 miles outside the city – near the Tuam Road – in which an ambulance was dispatched from Castlebar."

What's going on? This doesn't make sense at all! - Obviously the Tuam base (when it ever opens and the Ambo isn't somewhere else like Carraroe) would cover such an incident or maybe they might dispatch an ambo from Donegal.

I thought the Tuam OMAC provided cover when needed? Why wasn't that sent? If the HSE West are stuck for cover and from the article above, it would seem that they are, why don't they establish a reserve like the AGS? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would give of their time. It would mean less wagons parked behind the regional which are already held in reserve for major incidents / breakdowns / shift changes etc. Surely, it would be better if they were on the road, crewed and available to respond, or does less ambos going into UCHG mean that they wouldn't already be adding to the trolleys? If they are being sent from Ballinasloe and Castlebar - Do they return there with the casualty?

Would a reserve ambo service get any support? There are nearly half a million unemployed and I accept that not everyone is suited to the nature of the job in hand but surely it should be considered in these straitened times.

Paulzx

scholar007 wrote: »

In the same article:

"This newspaper has learned of another recent ‘999’ incident 15 miles outside the city – near the Tuam Road – in which an ambulance was dispatched from Castlebar."

What's going on? This doesn't make sense at all! - Obviously the Tuam base (when it ever opens and the Ambo isn't somewhere else like Carraroe) would cover such an incident or maybe they might dispatch an ambo from Donegal.

I thought the Tuam OMAC provided cover when needed? Why wasn't that sent? If the HSE West are stuck for cover and from the article above, it would seem that they are, why don't they establish a reserve like the AGS? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would give of their time. It would mean less wagons parked behind the regional which are already held in reserve for major incidents / breakdowns / shift changes etc. Surely, it would be better if they were on the road, crewed and available to respond, or does less ambos going into UCHG mean that they wouldn't already be adding to the trolleys? If they are being sent from Ballinasloe and Castlebar - Do they return there with the casualty?

Would a reserve ambo service get any support? There are nearly half a million unemployed and I accept that not everyone is suited to the nature of the job in hand but surely it should be considered in these straitened times.

The ambulance service is "stuck for cover" every day of the week.

You reckon an ambulance reserve would solve this?
I've a better solution.

How about a properly resourced, properly staffed and properly organised ambulance service?

A professional service, staffed by professionals and run by professionals.

I think that sounds much better than an ambulance FCA

antichrist

scholar007 wrote: »

Would a reserve ambo service get any support?.

No!

We need more fully trained professionals!

As for omac.....the patient may still need als which omac cannot supply...and no disrespect to them but they don't have the experience or skill level to respond to as1 calls.

What is needed is education into when to call 999. So much time is spent on calls where a family member could have brought the patient in or pt could travel by taxi.

scholar007

Paulzx wrote: »

The ambulance service is "stuck for cover" every day of the week.

You reckon an ambulance reserve would solve this?
I've a better solution.

How about a properly resourced, properly staffed and properly organised ambulance service?

A professional service, staffed by professionals and run by professionals.

I think that sounds much better than an ambulance FCA

Well it seems to work for AGS.

As long as they have the Phecc recognised qualifications and the Bus/truck licences (Why árse around with the C1 and D1 - Go for the full monty C & D and do it right) - Whats the problem?

Paulzx

Whats the problem with having professionals employed to do the job?

You want to bring volunteers into the equation to do rostered shifts. Sound more like free labour to me.

Volunteer organisations are at present called into play during times of crisis etc. Unpredictable events that cannot be planned for. It is correct that they are utilised during these times.

Planned and rostered shifts should be crewed by fulltime employees.


And they are not "arsing" around with C1 and D1 licenses. You only need C1 and D1 licenses to drive the vehicles in use. Why would you get involved in the cost implications in getting driving licenses that are not required?

Unless the HSE are getting into HGV road transport or looking to take over from Dublin Bus there is no need for C and D licenses

Tango Alpha 51

Scholar,
First of all you need to be a phecc registered paramedic to crew a frontline ambulance (a qualification you can't get privately here at the moment) so EMT would not suffice. Also there is a distinct difference doing this job on a full time basis as opposed to part time ( skill degregation being the obvious one). You really need to do the job 24/7 to get the exp to deal with everything the job throws at ya.

Whilst the GR has it's benefits, the people who are reserves will tell you themselves that they are really limited in what they can do.

In essence the only way forward is to increase the staff in the ambulance service which in the current economic climate isn't going to happen.

In relation to other posts re the number of vehicles parked up in the major stations, the majority of these ambulances are there to be serviced, repaired, back up vehicles etc. There is really only a small number of ambulances on duty at any one time.

It's not the fault of the existing Paras & Advanced Paras who crew these limited resources. It's down to senior management not increasing staff due to restraints imposed by the Government & HSE

Final point would you honestly expect people to apply for an ambulance reserve & do this job essentially for free??.

scholar007

"Volunteer organisations are at present called into play during times of crisis etc. Unpredictable events that cannot be planned for. It is correct that they are utilised during these times."

Seems like a crisis to me when crews from Castlebar and Ballinasloe are covering Galway incidents. So the volunteers are ok when there is a major incident but not ok when it comes to the day to day stuff? I thought it would be the other way around to be honest.

"In relation to other posts re the number of vehicles parked up in the major stations, the majority of these ambulances are there to be serviced, repaired, back up vehicles etc. There is really only a small number of ambulances on duty at any one time."

Well, there seems to be a serious amount of "back up vehicles" sitting in Galway. There seems to be a lot of servicing and repairing going on. In my experience the transit is a reliable wagon and as long as you have a fire extinguisher to put out the engine fires, the Mercs should be ok too. Judging by the amount of yokes sitting behind the regional at any one time, one would seriously have to question fleet management. You wouldn't catch Mick O'Leary having a proportionate number of 737s sitting idle!

Tango Alpha 51

Scholar,
Every regional area of the ambulance service has one main station ie HQ where all the vehicles from outlying stations would come for repair. Transits & Mercs driven in the service are driven harder than your average vehicle therefore they do break down more often. Your remarks about fire extinguishers are flippant at best & to be quite honest if O Leary was running the ES in this country you would be charged for everything used in an ambulance as well as use of the ambulance itself.

scholar007

buzzman wrote: »

Scholar,
Every regional area of the ambulance service has one main station ie HQ where all the vehicles from outlying stations would come for repair. Transits & Mercs driven in the service are driven harder than your average vehicle therefore they do break down more often. Your remarks about fire extinguishers are flippant at best & to be quite honest if O Leary was running the ES in this country you would be charged for everything used in an ambulance as well as use of the ambulance itself.

If I had a mishap within a 5 mile radius of Galway, can I be guaranteed the big yellow taxi wouldn't be summoned from somewhere at least an hour away even on blues & twos?

It's great to hear that Mercedes have sorted the engine fire problem though I still prefer the transit.

Tango Alpha 51

scholar007 wrote: »

If I had a mishap within a 5 mile radius of Galway, can I be guaranteed the big yellow taxi wouldn't be summoned from somewhere at least an hour away even on blues & twos?

Obviously the answer would be no you could be guaranteed that. The ambulances are allocated using a priority dispatch system which is also subject to the availability of said ambulances.

It's a catch 22 situation really ie for the sake of the discussion the base in Galway City has 20 ambulances parked in it but only 3 on at anyone time. You can't expect to crew the other 17 vehicles on the premise of just in case a call comes in. Spatial analysis has been done on call volumes etc.

If we applied the above to the debate & the call volume is low, then we as in the NAS would get lambasted for sitting around doing nothing whilst getting paid for it.

Another more realistic example would be the Fire Service. If they respond to an rtc, their pda would be 2 pumps & 1 et. That would require all the staff in the station to respond. Now Joe Soap public is driving past & see half a dozen fire engines out the back. His neighbours house 5 miles away goes on fire & he rings 999 only to be told that the nearest available tender to respond has to come from Ballinasloe.

Do you see where I'm coming from. You can't have an infinite amount of vehicles ready to respond to calls, a line has to be drawn somewhere.

What's actually needed is greater awareness amongst the general public as to when to call for an emergency ambulance. To often we get called out for the most trivial of matters which inevitably ties us up whilst there could be more urgent calls holding.

Bang Bang

buzzman wrote: »

Obviously the answer would be no you could be guaranteed that. The ambulances are allocated using a priority dispatch system which is also subject to the availability of said ambulances.

It's a catch 22 situation really ie for the sake of the discussion the base in Galway City has 20 ambulances parked in it but only 3 on at anyone time. You can't expect to crew the other 17 vehicles on the premise of just in case a call comes in. Spatial analysis has been done on call volumes etc.

If we applied the above to the debate & the call volume is low, then we as in the NAS would get lambasted for sitting around doing nothing whilst getting paid for it.

Another more realistic example would be the Fire Service. If they respond to an rtc, their pda would be 2 pumps & 1 et. That would require all the staff in the station to respond. Now Joe Soap public is driving past & see half a dozen fire engines out the back. His neighbours house 5 miles away goes on fire & he rings 999 only to be told that the nearest available tender to respond has to come from Ballinasloe.

Do you see where I'm coming from. You can't have an infinite amount of vehicles ready to respond to calls, a line has to be drawn somewhere.

What's actually needed is greater awareness amongst the general public as to when to call for an emergency ambulance. To often we get called out for the most trivial of matters which inevitably ties us up whilst there could be more urgent calls holding.

Well put Buzzman, and if the public had a better awareness of when to call an ambulance and what an ambulance is actually for then the term 'Big Yellow Taxi' may never have came about or indeed would have no requirement to be used.

scholar007

buzzman wrote: »

Obviously the answer would be no you could be guaranteed that. The ambulances are allocated using a priority dispatch system which is also subject to the availability of said ambulances.

It's a catch 22 situation really ie for the sake of the discussion the base in Galway City has 20 ambulances parked in it but only 3 on at anyone time. You can't expect to crew the other 17 vehicles on the premise of just in case a call comes in. Spatial analysis has been done on call volumes etc.

If we applied the above to the debate & the call volume is low, then we as in the NAS would get lambasted for sitting around doing nothing whilst getting paid for it.

Another more realistic example would be the Fire Service. If they respond to an rtc, their pda would be 2 pumps & 1 et. That would require all the staff in the station to respond. Now Joe Soap public is driving past & see half a dozen fire engines out the back. His neighbours house 5 miles away goes on fire & he rings 999 only to be told that the nearest available tender to respond has to come from Ballinasloe.

Do you see where I'm coming from. You can't have an infinite amount of vehicles ready to respond to calls, a line has to be drawn somewhere.

What's actually needed is greater awareness amongst the general public as to when to call for an emergency ambulance. To often we get called out for the most trivial of matters which inevitably ties us up whilst there could be more urgent calls holding.

That makes sense alright. Perhaps a public information campaign would be in order then so that ambos are only called when absolutely necessary? Do you have a suggestion box in the job?

Tango Alpha 51

Scholar,
Management are aware of what needs to be done. Unfortunately it's people in positions above them that are reticent about it. HSE senior managers are afraid of the media pure & simple which surprises even me considering they have dedicated PR people but the NAS doesn't rate highly enough on their list of priorities.