M.A in Counselling and Psychotherapy in ICHAS?

nmnm

Hello, I have been reading various threads regarding the above named course and I am still at quite a loss. I am also considering doing the Ma in Psychotherapy that DBS offer part time.

Basically I see the course that ICHAS offer to be better value, ie its 2,750 per annum to DBS' 4950. But Is the accreditation that DBS offer (IAHIP) better then what ICHAS offer (APCP)? I was of the beleif that IACP was the main body?

I would hate to spend the money on the ICHAS masters to then realise it wouldnt allow me to do what I want to do(practise as a psychotherapist), as in what are the pitfalls if I was to be accredited by APCP and not any other body?

Any info would be geatly appreciated!

phelo2121

nmnm wrote: »

Hello, I have been reading various threads regarding the above named course and I am still at quite a loss. I am also considering doing the Ma in Psychotherapy that DBS offer part time.

Basically I see the course that ICHAS offer to be better value, ie its 2,750 per annum to DBS' 4950. But Is the accreditation that DBS offer (IAHIP) better then what ICHAS offer (APCP)? I was of the beleif that IACP was the main body?

I would hate to spend the money on the ICHAS masters to then realise it wouldnt allow me to do what I want to do(practise as a psychotherapist), as in what are the pitfalls if I was to be accredited by APCP and not any other body?

Any info would be geatly appreciated!

Hi I was also interested in the ma in c&p in ichas but after a bit of research I can tell you it is a waste of money and time as a submission of guidelines have been put forward in order to regulate the professon and this course does not even meet one of them, now these might not come in for another few years but they most likely will then you would have to return to college for two more years and many more practical hours and personal therapy etc also there are hidden costs within the course you have to pay about fifty euro to meet ur supervisor for thirty hrs supervision throughout practical hours at fifty euro per hour, this course is not recognized by any other body accept for the one affiliated with the college for a reason, the iacp is the main accrediting body on their site is a list of approved courses I recommend you look at these and consider one of them there is no quick road to c&p

nmnm

Thank you so much for the reply. Where might I read these proposals?? Is it fair to say that these proposals will definetely be undertaken or is it only hear say? I know it is impossible to know for definite but what is the general consencus?

So I would be correct in saying that if these proposals came into play the course I have mentioned would not allow me to practise as a psychotherapist?

I am sorry for all the questions but I just want to familiarise myself with the whole area as much as I can. I am not looking for an easy quick route just one that would suit me best! Thanks again for the any info!

nmnm

"The Association of Professional Counsellors and Psychotherapists in Ireland warmly welcomes and supports the initiative to introduce statutory regulation for counsellors and psychotherapists practicing in the Republic of Ireland. We believe passionately that practicing counsellors and psychotherapists should be qualified to the minimum standards for both areas of practice as proposed by the Psychological Therapies Forum.

Since April 2010 we have required that all our members are now at degree level or higher on the National Framework of Qualifications, making us the first professional Association representing both Counsellors and Psychotherapists to formally require these standards of members.

Statutory regulation when it comes will not only regulate the professions but it will allow both counselling and psychotherapy to grow and develop. While we await the introduction of these standards, the Association of Professional Counsellors and Psychotherapists will continue to work collaboratively with other Professional Associations on the Psychological Therapies Forum to progress the agenda of Statutory Regulation."

Taken from the APCP website, adding to my confusion!!

JuliusCaesar

nmnm wrote: »

"Since April 2010 we have required that all our members are now at degree level or higher on the National Framework of Qualifications, making us the first professional Association representing both Counsellors and Psychotherapists to formally require these standards of members."

hmmm. For years, and years and years and years, in fact since accreditation started, you couldn't get accreditation as a CBT therapist without a pre-existing mental health professional qualification - ie you had be be a qualified clinical/counselling psychologist, or a psychiatrist, or a psychiatric nurse/OT/social worker. So my only answer to the above is a "yeah, right" :rolleyes:

nmnm, I'd suggest you look at our thread on Statutory Registration.


What's ICHAS?

phelo2121

nmnm wrote: »

"The Association of Professional Counsellors and Psychotherapists in Ireland warmly welcomes and supports the initiative to introduce statutory regulation for counsellors and psychotherapists practicing in the Republic of Ireland. We believe passionately that practicing counsellors and psychotherapists should be qualified to the minimum standards for both areas of practice as proposed by the Psychological Therapies Forum.

Since April 2010 we have required that all our members are now at degree level or higher on the National Framework of Qualifications, making us the first professional Association representing both Counsellors and Psychotherapists to formally require these standards of members.

Statutory regulation when it comes will not only regulate the professions but it will allow both counselling and psychotherapy to grow and develop. While we await the introduction of these standards, the Association of Professional Counsellors and Psychotherapists will continue to work collaboratively with other Professional Associations on the Psychological Therapies Forum to progress the agenda of Statutory Regulation."

Taken from the APCP website, adding to my confusion!!

Yes it is degree level but they still don't meet any of the guidelines like a min of four ye degree and many more practical hours and personal therapy other degrees are already adhering to these guidelines which where put together by majority of accrediting bodies except apcp as they are not considered lejit by the other bodies, the professon may not be regulated for some time but when it is the guidelines put forward will most likely be the ones used as it was the current accrediting bodies that put them forward, hope that helps also was warned off the ichas from two psychologists I used to work wit they told me ppl with this course would find it very difficult to get jobs, when I phoned the college to inquire around what position would a graduate be in if or when guidelines for regulation came in the tutor for the course could not answer and said she would get a lecturer from the wit to ring me which just baffled me as the wit only do a cert in counseling so how would a lecturer there know more then the tutor of the master's in c&p, its ur decision but to many ifs and buts in it for me.

hotspur

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

What's ICHAS?

NCII.

It's an old diploma mill tactic of changing names, creating new organisations which are ostensibly umbrella ones, creating organisations which accredit etc.

greyhawk

Having read the comments that have been posted here and in the interest of fact , I believe that it is essential to point out the following so that people who are confused are aware of what actually is going on. I am not a member of APCP nor have I ever been. Let me state for the record that APCP were invited by the PTF to become a formal member. They are full members of the Forum and like the all other members they are promoting and advancing the standards of counselling and psychotherapy in Ireland. I cannot comment on their courses as I have not been on one, others who are on them or have completed them, can do this. Counselling and Psychotherapy are in a changing state and a huge piece of this puzzle will be completed next year when HETAC have developed and brought forward the professional wide standards for counselling and psychotherapy like they did in social care and which are now the standards nationwide. We all will welcome the day when this comes about, but for the moment there is no statutory regulation or one abiding standard, no one right or wrong course and no one controlling professional group.

JuliusCaesar

hotspur wrote: »

NCII.

It's an old diploma mill tactic of changing names, creating new organisations which are ostensibly umbrella ones, creating organisations which accredit etc.

Thanks Hotspur.

Isn't it interesting that whenever this body is mentioned, somebody registers in order to post their very first post on this subject? Maybe I should go check the ol' IP numbers..... hmm.....

phelo2121

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

hotspur wrote: »

NCII.

It's an old diploma mill tactic of changing names, creating new organisations which are ostensibly umbrella ones, creating organisations which accredit etc.

Thanks Hotspur.

Isn't it interesting that whenever this body is mentioned, somebody registers in order to post their very first post on this subject? Maybe I should go check the ol' IP numbers..... hmm.....

I know I have very few posts myself but I actually joined boards because if I had not read threads regarding this college and course I might have wasted time and money. Ever thread seems to have someone that's "in no way associated "with either ichas / acap defending them and with all the answers that can be very convincing!!!

waterfish19

Hi all,
I have been looking aound to do a masters when i came across this MSC in L&M in PP. I sounds like exactly what i want. BUT from the various threads, i have some concerns regarding the qualty of the masters.

From looking at the website....all lecturers are geared towards psycoltherapy, which is quite different to what i am looking at.

Also as it is a new masters...the quality of the masters. I realise, to do a masters it will be as good as you make it but with regards to mentorship and ability to get to the correct research questions i wonder is this organisation as good as the universities?


If anyone has any information i would be really interested, as my case is slightly different in that i have no need to get statutory registration in psychotherapy which is the main source of the threads.

Many thanks.

greyhawk

By all means please do check my IP address, I have no difficulty with this. As I stated if you, are going to post a fact, post a fact not what you want be fact. I dont see you denying that APCP are members of the Psychological Therapies Forum the same as IAAAC, ICP, IACP. As stated HETAC have now moved to develop professional standards in C&P again I would like to see our contributors deny this or give their expert take on it. But then as I said at the start they just are not informed, not up to date and not up to speed - spare the professions from the likes of this...!

JuliusCaesar

greyhawk wrote: »

I dont see you denying that APCP are members of the Psychological Therapies Forum

What's that got to do with anything? :rolleyes: I've no idea which organisations are involved in the Psychological Therapies Forum.

hotspur

greyhawk wrote: »

As stated HETAC have now moved to develop professional standards in C&P again I would like to see our contributors deny this or give their expert take on it.

Well you can have my take on it - you are peddling misinformation in spirit and essence with this NCII marketing line. HETAC has no role to play in the field of psychotherapy and its standards. It merely concerns itself with academic awards.

Consequently it has about as much a role in "developing professional standards in C&P" as TCD, UCD, DCU, UCC, Sheffield University, Middlesex University, or any of the other universities which accredit academic qualifications pertaining to psychotherapy in this country.

It is frustrating to have to keep repeating this, but since this is a very popular website where people come for information it is ethically necessary to counter such marketing spin so that people can get a more balanced view.

I imagine we will be revisiting this the next time a certain Limerick college is enrolling or holding their information meetings around the country as another first time poster pops up with a well timed thread.

milliekinillie

hi, just reading through some of the posts here on ichas. tbh im really shocked and very angry that ichas and hetac can bring out a training course that spits students out after a year. i think its disgusting. i dont understand how you can have to do a degree and then go on to do a masters in psychotherapy in a year??? that doesnt make any sense. im currently in my third year of a psychotherapy course in dublin. i already have a degree in psychiatric nursing (we needed a degree just to get onto the course) then the actual course is a further four years. the first three years is a graduate diploma and the fourth year is the masters. we werent allowed to see clients until our third year. (ive just recently started with clients) however i know people who have a social care degree and ichas are accepting onto the masters course... which is only one year long....... seriously? there starting their course in september and also starting to see clients in september..... this just doesnt make sense. how is that allowed??? the reason why we need a couple of years training before we see clients is because of the work we need to do on ourselves. academia is important but its only a small piece of therapy training. whats more important is the use of self. thats really all we have when were with clients and if we havent spent those years tearing back the layers of ourselves then theres no way on earth we will be able to do it with clients. im busting my gut between working full time, going to college, seeing clients, personal therapy, peer therapy, supervision, study groups, journaling, and tryingt to raise my children and be a wife to my husband. i feel its full on but i tell myself it will be worth it when i qualify. then i see ichas and i think im doing all this work and at the end of the day the public wont know the difference between me or the so called therapist they have produced because well both end up being accredited by iacp?..... i just think its wrong.

Required Field

milliekinillie wrote: »

...then i see ichas and i think im doing all this work and at the end of the day the public wont know the difference between me or the so called therapist they have produced because well both end up being accredited by iacp?..... i just think its wrong.

If it makes you feel better, the IACP doesn't provide accreditation for any ICHAS degree, be it undergrad or postgrad. They're accredited by APCP, which is a professional body that it's pretty difficult to get any information on.

milliekinillie

Thanks for that.... That does make me feel better. Thank you!!

Lenny89

Hi, I am thinking of doing the masters in counselling and psychotherapy at the ICHAS in September but after reading this blog it has seriously made me doubt my decision. Is the course not going to be accredited enough to get me a job as a counsellor? I am worried now as to whether or not I would be wasting my time in doing this course. Please if anyone who has done this course or who knows anything about it can reply I would be grateful.

milliekinillie

Hi there!

I can't answer that question, and maybe I'm being a bit biased without being fully  informed but.... The main part of psychotherapy is the relationship. It's the transference and countertransference, the empathic Attunement, the invisible dance that happens between therapist and client. For this to be effective you need to have first done a good bit of work on yourself, if not your not going to know what stuff is yours and what stuff is the clients. The reason why we do 3 or four year courses is not because of all the extra academia(which is important) but because of the experiential element. It gives us extra time to avail of personal therapy and a chance for us to explore our own hidden depths .... We can't take a client where we haven't been ourselves. This is your choice, but I think if I were you I'd be at least looking else where for info to compare. Turning point, tivoli, cork counselling centre training insuitute.... These all run excellent course's.... I think corks is the cheapest but still sounds really well run.  Look up iacp and iahip and ul get an idea of what they look for when their accrediting. They also give a list or approved training courses. I'm in my third year of training and I'm working in a centre seeing clients.... I've already heard complaints re ichas, that's from accredited therapists in the field......

Then there's the fact that the academic awarding body is Hetac. The accrediting body is APCP. so technically u wouldn't need to be accredited by iahip or iacp to actually work. I guess it's more about integrity and respect. Respect for yourself and respect for clients. With iacp and iahip you need to have done the work on yourself but with iChas (and this is from a student who will be starting in September so it could be just hearsay) but he's starting his course in September and also starting to see clients in September..... Is that not just plain wrong?

I dunno. The whole thing baffles me tbh. I guess because there isn't full regulations on psychotherapy there can be such a huge difference in training.

Peacemaker

IAHIP and IACP are legitimate accrediting bodies that are independent of the various courses. HETAC is an academic accrediting body, which has nothing to do with psychotherapy. APCP was set up by NCPII/Ichas.
IAHIP have the same criteria as ECP (European Certificate in Psychotherapy) and you can't go wrong with that. Look up the criteria for ECP and see if a course meets these requirements.
It is absolutely essential to have min 100 hrs personal therapy, group process work, skills training and supervised client hours (with a properly accredited supervisor) as part of your training. THis is the core of the training, along with integration of theory. It is you as a human being that will be sitting with a client, and so you must have good awareness around your patterns in relationship and must have done your personal process work in order to have the presence that is needed. It is not possible to practice psychotherapy in a competent, authentic, professional way without the personal work.
For Iahip and Iacp to not insist on trainees having done all the process work as part of their training would be totally unethical and negligent.

MorrisseyMc

milliekinillie wrote: »

Hi there!

I can't answer that question, and maybe I'm being a bit biased without being fully  informed but.... The main part of psychotherapy is the relationship. It's the transference and countertransference, the empathic Attunement, the invisible dance that happens between therapist and client. For this to be effective you need to have first done a good bit of work on yourself, if not your not going to know what stuff is yours and what stuff is the clients. The reason why we do 3 or four year courses is not because of all the extra academia(which is important) but because of the experiential element. It gives us extra time to avail of personal therapy and a chance for us to explore our own hidden depths .... We can't take a client where we haven't been ourselves. This is your choice, but I think if I were you I'd be at least looking else where for info to compare. Turning point, tivoli, cork counselling centre training insuitute.... These all run excellent course's.... I think corks is the cheapest but still sounds really well run.  Look up iacp and iahip and ul get an idea of what they look for when their accrediting. They also give a list or approved training courses. I'm in my third year of training and I'm working in a centre seeing clients.... I've already heard complaints re ichas, that's from accredited therapists in the field......

Then there's the fact that the academic awarding body is Hetac. The accrediting body is APCP. so technically u wouldn't need to be accredited by iahip or iacp to actually work. I guess it's more about integrity and respect. Respect for yourself and respect for clients. With iacp and iahip you need to have done the work on yourself but with iChas (and this is from a student who will be starting in September so it could be just hearsay) but he's starting his course in September and also starting to see clients in September..... Is that not just plain wrong?

I dunno. The whole thing baffles me tbh. I guess because there isn't full regulations on psychotherapy there can be such a huge difference in training.

You write like you are training with me ....I wonder !
I really would like to see the area regulated . There are lots of dodgy courses out there, and any one can put up a sign on the door saying therapist and see people.

Its dangerous.

M

Enhtie

Peacemaker states that“ IAHIP and IACP are legitimate accrediting bodies that are independent of the various courses.” Firstly, I would take issue with the use of the word “legitimate”. What exactly is meant by this? Is he/she implying that others such as IAAAC, APCP, BACP are not legitimate! Secondly, while I believe that accrediting bodies should be independent of the various courses, I think that whether they are or not is open to debate.

As stated by Greyhawk,APCP have been invited to the table so ifthe profession of c & p are ever identified in the future (which I’m notsure they will be), those who are members of this accrediting body will also beincluded.
Lastly, the Health and Social Care Professional Council (CORU) was established to regulate a range of health and social care professions. Currently, 12 professions have been identified for the purpose of their work. Counselling and Psychotherapy is not one of these 12.
I think it is very important that people enter these very expensive training courses with a realistic view of the career possibilities at the end of a very long road. Sarah Browne, the editor of “Therapy Today”, the BACP magazine had the following to say about the training of counsellors.

"As long as I’ve been editing this journal we’ve been receiving letters about the amount of people training to be counsellors (and the lack of jobs). The numbers have certainly swelled in recent years. In 2003 The Sunday Times reported that Britain ‘now has more counsellors than soldiers’. And last year I read that counselling had made it into a list for the top 10 most popular careers predicted for 2011. Yet the ratio of CPD adverts to job adverts in these pages has consistently been about 10:1.

There is clearly a lack of paid work or at least paid work that gets advertised. When I did my own training I felt uneasy when I realised that the training organisations were not making this situation clear to prospective students."

Odysseus

I think this thread has really run its course, personally I don't think any more can be added to the topic. The topic of Stat Reg is of course a totally different and tbf independent topic. Thread /