Best AB #10

pickarooney · 13-09-2011 11:04am #1

Shortlist of Fox, Mehrtens and Carter as I'm not old enough to remember anyone before that. Feel free to add anyone else into the mix.

Grant Fox - along with Michael Lynagh probably the defining fly-half of the eighties and early nineties. Metronomic from the tee with the distribution of a vending machine, the only flaw in his game was his lack of penetration and his legendary in ability to score a try. First and only Kiwi out-half to win the World Cup.

Andrew Mehrtens - incredible to thing this guy is still playing rugby, albeit at a low level. Testament to how much he loves the game and pretty much everyone in the game loves him. Stopped just short of 1000 points and had it not been for his omission from the easy games and the arrival of the man below could have made 2000

A great reader of the game with an unrivalled eye for a pass. Not a big try scorer and mediocre in the tackle he nonetheless could have had a perfect career had that DG landed against SA in '95.

Dan Carter - 29 with 1200+ international points on the clock and the record scorer in the Super 14, Carter is a phenomenal player who could render this whole debate meaningless over the next couple of years. Arguably not as accomplished a passer as Mehrtens or Fox, he more than makes up for it with ball in hand and has found the try-line 29 times in black.

Fox (and Lynagh) was my first and only reference for place-kicking for a long time and I'm pretty sure I overtook his points record for punting my American football over the garden wall.

I kind of want to pick Mehrtens as the guy just oozed quality, professionalism and humility throughout his long career and no matter how much I wanted the All Blacks to lose a match I couldn't help but be impressed watching him slot over kick after kick and opening up defences with a sly wide pass.

Statistically though, it's hard to argue with Carter. An absolute machine of a player who really has no weak part to his game.

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 11:11am

CARTER. mehretens with a pinch of carlos spencer thrown in.

fantastic defender too which sets him apart from the rest.

GerM · 13-09-2011 11:12am

Have to put in Spencer just for his skill levels. He was 10 years ago what Quade Cooper is now. Mehrtens was a class act but he failed to really stamp his authority on the biggest occasions I thought. Can't remember Fox as I was only knee high. Carter to surpass them all though if puts the WC drought to rest. He has it all.

The only out half that I have in the same bracket as Carter in my memory is Larkham. He was an absolute joy to watch and he did it at the very highest level. If he didn't miss out on the 2007 WC, I''d be confident Australia would have contested their third final in a row.

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 11:14am

as an aside, i have read in a few autobiographies and other places that mehrtens knew the laws as good if not better then most refs and frequently corrected them on decisions. he would be on the team bus reading the laws/rule book.

apparently mccaw is similar in that regard

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 11:15am

GerM wrote: »

Have to put in Spencer just for his skill levels. He was 10 years ago what Quade Cooper is now. Mehrtens was a class act but he failed to really stamp his authority on the biggest occasions I thought. Can't remember Fox as I was only knee high. Carter to surpass them all though if puts the WC drought to rest. He has it all.

The only out half that I have in the same bracket as Carter in my memory is Larkham. He was an absolute joy to watch and he did it at the very highest level. If he didn't miss out on the 2007 WC, I''d be confident Australia would have contested their third final in a row.

good oul bernie larkham. gave hope to all us skinny guys. he was a class act

irishbucsfan · 13-09-2011 11:18am

handsomecake wrote: »

as an aside, i have read in a few autobiographies and other places that mehrtens knew the laws as good if not better then most refs and frequently corrected them on decisions. he would be on the team bus reading the laws/rule book.

apparently mccaw is similar in that regard

O'Driscoll said a similar thing about Sexton.

Hermy · 13-09-2011 11:32am

handsomecake wrote: »

apparently mccaw is similar in that regard

That's rather ironic.

ambid · 13-09-2011 12:16pm

Excellent thread idea - but does anybody want to give odds on how long it takes for this fly half debate to descend into another ROG vs. Sexton row?!

I loved watching Merthens (and Larkham). Fox was a master. He was only average height and weight so I wonder would that have hindered his progress had he been around now? Carter is definitely the supreme candidate, he's just so good at every aspect of the role.

GerM · 13-09-2011 12:34pm

I know it's technically a NZ thread but it prompted me to go looking at some of Larkham's best bits. This doesn't justice to his distribution whatsoever but man could he run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hcQOVDh8o

I think he probably beats Carter in terms of passing and running but Carter is a better all round player, can kick goals and controls a game better.

JustinDee · 13-09-2011 1:06pm

There's Mark Ella then there's the rest, UnZidders included.

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 2:02pm

Hermy wrote: »

That's rather ironic.

its rather professional and indicative of the extra mile he is willing to go to get an edge. a genius. one of rugbys more erudite characters im led to believe. pilot and straight A student allegedly

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 2:08pm

JustinDee wrote: »

There's Mark Ella then there's the rest, UnZidders included.

the master of the flat attack.
retired at 25 and only 78 international points. hard to compare him really, although he is held in the loftiest regard.

i again find it difficult to compare him to pro era players. its the ali tyson thing all over again.

mark ella would have his head caved in if he played tomorrow.

JustinDee · 13-09-2011 2:12pm

handsomecake wrote: »

the master of the flat attack.
retired at 25 and only 78 international points. hard to compare him really, although he is held in the loftiest regard.

i again find it difficult to compare him to pro era players. its the ali tyson thing all over again

He was the reason I started watching rugby union anyway. Really stood out and in retrospect, his skills were just as honed and special as any these days, influencing two codes of rugby.

handsomecake wrote: »

mark ella would have his head caved in if he played tomorrow.

Silly thing to say.

handsomecake · 13-09-2011 2:17pm

JustinDee wrote: »

He was the reason I started watching rugby union anyway. Really stood out and in retrospect, his skills were just as honed and special as any these days, influencing two codes of rugby.

Silly thing to say.

but its the elephant in the room when comparing pre and post professional players.
they can bench press more,run faster ,kick further etc.

as an aside why did he retire after 4 years? he did it by choice not injury.

did he fall out of love with the game?

JustinDee · 13-09-2011 2:35pm

handsomecake wrote: »

as an aside why did he retire after 4 years? he did it by choice not injury.

did he fall out of love with the game?

Very few people know why. There are some sadarse rumours out there but nobody would know what to believe.

CatFromHue · 13-09-2011 4:36pm

handsomecake wrote: »

but its the elephant in the room when comparing pre and post professional players.
they can bench press more,run faster ,kick further etc.

Physically amateur players would never be able to compete with pro players. When you watch old games and look at the skill of these guys though you can see how talented they really were compared to their contemporary's. That's a big gauge on how good they were.

duckysauce · 13-09-2011 5:43pm

GerM wrote: »

I know it's technically a NZ thread but it prompted me to go looking at some of Larkham's best bits. This doesn't justice to his distribution whatsoever but man could he run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hcQOVDh8o

I think he probably beats Carter in terms of passing and running but Carter is a better all round player, can kick goals and controls a game better.

some amazing try's there

Hermy · 13-09-2011 7:18pm

handsomecake wrote: »

its rather professional and indicative of the extra mile he is willing to go to get an edge. a genius. one of rugbys more erudite characters im led to believe. pilot and straight A student allegedly

I'm not criticising him. It's just that more often than not the comments one hears in the media about McCaw are about how illegal he is on the field. Seems there's much more to the man than this.

matthew8 · 13-09-2011 8:22pm

I haven't had the pleasure of watching Fox or Mehrtens in their prime but from watching Carter, if he's not playing for New Zealand, they are 10 times more beatable.

JustinDee · 14-09-2011 6:27am

handsomecake wrote: »

i again find it difficult to compare him to pro era players. its the ali tyson thing all over again

You do realise Grant Fox has been mentioned too?

handsomecake · 14-09-2011 9:53am

JustinDee wrote: »

handsomecake wrote: »

i again find it difficult to compare him to pro era players. its the ali tyson thing all over again

You do realise Grant Fox has been mentioned too?

Don't rate him

JustinDee · 14-09-2011 9:58am

handsomecake wrote: »

Don't rate him

One of their best ever pivots?
Ok doke. Suit yourself.

handsomecake · 14-09-2011 11:53am

JustinDee wrote: »

One of their best ever pivots?
Ok doke. Suit yourself.

if i rave about him im an NZ fanboi.
if i dis him im mad.
cant win.

fox's record speaks for itself- he was awsome. he does nothing for me though. similarly jonny wilkinson doesnt excite me at all. dont rate him.bores me to death.neil jenkins bored me to death too.

Best AB #10

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