Aritech CS-250

footballmom

We are having troubles with this system. Does anyone know if they are still able to work on these systems? It is older we never had any issues but now just dont know where to turn. Does anyone know of someone who will work on this system in Fairfield County Connecticut as the original installers only work commercial. We really dont want to replace as i think it is a good system.
Thxs:)

altor

It is a good system, if you can tell us what issues your having maybe we can help you repair any faults your having.

footballmom

Not sure where to begin...Well I am researching new smoke detectors as these are 15 years old replacing ESL 455c with I think i am going to go with ESL 449c. I was thinking the issue is with these

I replaced the battery already. When we power up the system it all seems good for a bit the zone 6 fire goes on . All 6 smoke detectors are blinking red so its not like one was set off with a solid red. Then Zones 4 and 5 keep beeping these are sensors up and downstairs.

Tried to set the alarm and the seven button on keypad is not working? Also tried to reset the code on the system and when i depress code and input the personal code i dont get the three beeps..UGh

Hope i am not rambling to much..could a stuck key on the key pad cause all of this...Also i used some can air and blew out both motion detectors and both keypads..thanks for your time on this...really appreciate it !!

KoolKid

Sounds like the keypad is on its,way. You could try changing your code to something without a 7. That may buy you a bit of time . If your replacing, a panel and keypad is better value than just a keypad. I have a couple of old ones ff you want one to try. That might get you going for now.

If the Fire shows on the keypad then theres no battery to replace. Is there another smoke alarm in your house thats connected to the alarm? Did you disconnect any wires from any of the smoke detectors.
Sounds like you have one or more faulty sensors /contacts on zone 4 & 5. You could try disconnecting & closing off these one by one to see it those zones close.
Quite a bit going on there. Has this system noit been used in a while.?

footballmom

Thanks:) ...We have not used this in awhile we had issues a couple months ago and never got around to working on this. I will try with my husband your suggestions of removing the zones and disconnecting the smoke detectors. Thanks again and will get back to you on how we make out.

altor

footballmom wrote: »

Fairfield County Connecticut

KoolKid wrote: »

I have a couple of old ones ff you want one to try.

Anything for a holiday, may as well fix it while your over there

altor

footballmom wrote: »

Not sure where to begin...Well I am researching new smoke detectors as these are 15 years old replacing ESL 455c with I think i am going to go with ESL 449c. I was thinking the issue is with these

I replaced the battery already. When we power up the system it all seems good for a bit the zone 6 fire goes on . All 6 smoke detectors are blinking red so its not like one was set off with a solid red. Then Zones 4 and 5 keep beeping these are sensors up and downstairs.

Tried to set the alarm and the seven button on keypad is not working? Also tried to reset the code on the system and when i depress code and input the personal code i dont get the three beeps..UGh

Hope i am not rambling to much..could a stuck key on the key pad cause all of this...Also i used some can air and blew out both motion detectors and both keypads..thanks for your time on this...really appreciate it !!

I would try taking the keypad apart. Sometimes there can be a build up of stuff on the keypad board that when wiped sorts this issue. I would do as has being suggested and remove the devices and add one at a time to find the faulty one. Although if they are that old they could all do with replacing. You may have a few faulty devices on the zones. Try the keypad and smokes first and if the alarm activates see what come up when you disarm the system.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Anything for a holiday, may as well fix it while your over there

Didn't it say flights & accomodation included??:eek:
If not I was going to leave it to An Post.

altor

Unless they are, an post is always an option

mcrock

Hello altor and KoolKid:

I've been following these Aritech threads and you two really know your stuff! A lot of people have benefited from your knowledge and expertise and I hope you may be able to help me out.

I have a CS250 (LCD Keypad) GE-Interlogix Alarm System in my house, Version 1.7.

I've used it for several years without a single problem (it has never been maintenanced), but for some reason last weekend, it went off three times in the course of about three hours. These were all errors, as there was no breach on the interior of my premises. I have copied down the System Log and there a few entries I don't understand...or rather, I don't know how to read...in order to diagnose whether my system needs maintenance by a qualified technician or if these errors can be sourced to other factors (adverse weather?).

Would you be able to help me out if I listed some recurring entries from my System Log?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

fred funk }{

Post them up and we'll have a look.

mcrock

Thanks for joining the discussion, fred funk.

Apologies...perhaps this is better handled via PM, but here is a section of my System Log. If someone could define some of the terms in the entries below, that would be a great help (i.e. Enty Flt Local, Entry Flt Full, Ext Tamp Full, Tamper Inhibit). An asterisk denotes when a user entered/exited the building, disarmed the alarm, and/or re-armed the alarm. The rest of the entries are the system on its own.

Here goes:

66 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 11:56
65 Entry Flt Local Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 11:56
64 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 11:56
63 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1 11:56
62 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 11:57
61* Entry Time Start Hall Door Area 1
Act 01 0 A1 12:00
60* Disarm from Alm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 12:00
59* Disarm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 12:00
58 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Res 05 0 A1 12:00
57 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Act 74 0 Sys 12:00
56 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Res 74 0 A1 12:00
55* Exit Time Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 12:02
54* Full Arm Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 12:03
53 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Res 74 0 Sys 12:03
52 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 12:04
51 Entry Flt Local Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 12:05
50 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 12:05
49 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1 12:05
48 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 12:05
47 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 12:05
46* Entry Time Start Hall Door Area 1
Act 01 0 A1 12:06
45* Disarm from Alm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 12:06
44* Disarm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 12:06
43 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Res 05 0 A1 12:06
42 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Res 74 0 Sys 12:06
41 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Res 74 0 A1 12:06
40* Exit Time Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 12:09
39* Full Arm Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 12:10
38 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Res 74 0 Sys 12:10
37 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 15:01
36 Entry Time Start Hall Area Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 15:01
35 Entry Flt Local Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 15:01
34 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Act 05 0 A1 15:01
33 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1 15:01
32* Entry Time Start Hall Door Area 1
Act 01 0 A1 15:02
31* Disarm from Alm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 15:02
30* Disarm User 2 Area 1
Act 02 0 A1 15:02
29 Entry Flt Full Area 1
Res 05 0 A1 15:02
28 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Act 74 0 Sys 15:02
27 Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Res 74 0 A1 15:02
26* Exit Time Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 15:03
25* Full Arm Area 1
Act 00 0 A1 15:04
24 Tamper Inhibit Ext Tamp System
Res 74 0 Sys 15:04

fred funk }{

There's a problem with the tamper on the outside bell. Theres also activations on the front door. The front door activations could be from the door being opened while the system is in 'alarm' condition from the bell tamper.

'entry time start' is when the front door is opened and 'entry fault' is when the timer has elapsed without the code being entered.

You could possibly have two problems. 1. Problem with the front door. 2. Problem with the outside bell. When your alarm activates (caused by the faulty component on your front door) and the bell rings outside it could trigger the 'ext fault' with the bell.

mcrock

Thanks for your reply, fred funk.

A few questions:

1) Does "Res" refer to the system resetting all these items once the alarm is disarmed properly by a user? (entries 43, 42, and 41)

2) I have not manually set up any tamper inhibits on the system. Is "Tamper Inhibit" (entry 57) an automatic default action if the system senses a tamper on the outside bell? Otherwise, how would a tamper on the outside bell occur?

3) Is there a process occurring between "Tamper Inhibit Act" and "Tamper Inhibit Res"...(entries 57 and 53)...where the system is resetting itself after being disarmed?

4) What is the difference between "Entry Flt Local" and "Entry Flt Full"? (entries 65 and 64)

5) Regarding "Problem with the front door", does this mean the sensors on the door and door frame are misaligned and need to be readjusted, or is the circuitry gone bad?

6) Does my system require maintenance/tune-up by a technician?

fred funk }{

Sorry for the short reply, I'm posting from my phone.

The panel inhibits the fault after, I think 3 activations but I'm not sure. Components on alarms go faulty all the time so it's highly likely the front door detector has gone faulty and more than likely the tamper switch on your out side bell is faulty too.

The log on the 250 can be tricky to decipher at times but the faults I have listed is the basically what the panel is telling you.

altor

Here is a link to the user manual off the CS250, pages 23 on explain faults and how to work out there meaning.

mcrock

I ran a Diagnostics on System Faults, and the result is "None". Hmmm.

altor

That will not show up faults with the devices themselves. You will need a multimeter to do this.

mcrock

I'm having trouble deciphering which zones need maintenance, and which codes correspond to exactly what is causing the problems and where...

If I run a "Zone Test" in the Diagnostics Menu, will I be able to get more information? Information that I can actually understand, or will it just be in code? There doesn't seem to be a "legend" of definitions that I can refer to. My System Log has several terms that aren't defined under "Service Messages" on pages 29-30 of the User Manual.

Sounds like I may need a technician to call out to the house and run a proper diagnostics test? Made a few calls and it costs 120 Euros for maintenance (either a one-time call-out fee, or you can subscribe for a yearly contract, which includes unlimited call-outs, for the same amount).

altor

That is expensive for a fault like your having, €50 - €70 would be normal for a call out to cover the first hours work. When you go into the log press 0 to give more information on the event to narrow it down. The zone test will not show a fault unless you can test it for intermittent faults. A meter is the only way to get to the cause of your alarm activation's. It is explained on page 25 of the user manual.

mcrock

Thanks for your continued feedback, altor and fred funk.

The log notes I submitted in Post #12 of this thread lists each event, plus the additional information when I toggle between screens after pressing "0". That additional information does indeed help, but it's more the terms in the event itself that are confusing. For example, I don't know what "Ext Tamp Full" means, nor the difference between "Entry Flt Full" and "Entry Flt Local", nor the relationship between "Tamper Inhibit" and my "zone 74" (don't even know which zone 74 is, or how I can find out).

That being said, fred funk helpfully interpreted and listed the problems the panel was telling me about, and thank you for that!

I probably need some maintenance, but I agree with altor, €120 is pretty steep. Can anyone recommend someone in Galway who could do a thorough job and get to the root of this problem for cheaper?

(Do fred funk and/or altor do house calls?):)

footballmom

Thanks for all the advice

So far I purchased all new smoke detectors. We have only installed one so far and the system seems a little bit better ...The one replaced i believe was an issue...

Just wanted to give you an update on this as I appreciate your time you have given me.

I will keep you updated on the progress..

Thanks again!

KoolKid

Hopefully that gets you sorted. If you have any more troubles you know where we are .

altor

footballmom wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice

So far I purchased all new smoke detectors. We have only installed one so far and the system seems a little bit better ...The one replaced i believe was an issue...

Just wanted to give you an update on this as I appreciate your time you have given me.

I will keep you updated on the progress..

Thanks again!

Hopefully that will sort the problem, if you do have any more issues disconnect them and add one by one till you get the faulty one.

mcrock

Hello again. Just wanted to give everyone an update on the status of our system...I really appreciate the feedback and advice everyone has given, especially the helpful PMs I've received from altor and fred funk }{!

I had a technician call out to the house...he went through the system log, ran a series of tests, and found overall it was working fine, with the exception of these things:

1) He replaced the tamper inhibit pod in the main console with a resistor. He told me that whenever the alarm goes off, this faulty factory-issue pod doesn't reset properly and is consequently the cause of recurring activations. Once this defective pod has been replaced with the resistor, the system resets fully after each activation.

2) On our door sensors, he lined up the metal tabs inside the sensors. When these sensors come from the factory, he explained, the tabs often aren't "lined up and pressed against each other properly" and apparently after years of use, the simple vibrations of opening/closing/slamming doors cause them to misalign further and eventually slip out of alignment. He went on to say the whenever he calls out to a house for a maintenance service, this is the first thing he checks and he often finds he has to re-align these tabs.

3) He reduced the sensitivity slightly of our window sensors...when they were installed, they were set too high...a few repeated strong blasts of wind could disturb the vibration sensor enough to set the alarm. These windows take the brunt of the force from wind on a daily basis.

The cost of this service cost €120, and upon the technician's recommendation, I opted for this single call-out service, which is cheaper than the yearly maintenance repeated-call-outs-included service (€121 yearly contract + €50 first call out fee = €171). The technician assured me that my problems should be solved, and if ever I need anything or if I need to make any adjustments on my settings, I can ring their freephone number and they can talk me through it over the phone, without any additional charge. Although I thought the €120 was a bit on the steep side, I was very pleased with the service and I enjoy the peace of mind in knowing my alarm is working properly.

fred funk }{

Hi mcrock,

Glad you got sorted but going by your explanation I'm not 100% sure what the engineer did. Did he close off the external bell tamper with a resistor in the panel? And I'm also not sure what he did with the sensors with the metal tabs etc.

He should have metered out the problemsom zone. Did he do that? And did he use any new parts as €120 is very expensive for a service.

altor

Thanks for getting back to us mcrock.

I dont know what he fixed either. Faulty pod ?
By the looks of your response he did not fix the issue of the tamper on the external bell and simply bypassed it by putting the resistor in the panel, then relayed this to you as a factory fault. If that was the case then simply putting in the resistor would not fix the issue with the panel as it would still be faulty.

Did he explain what are the tabs in the sensors ?

Looking at the log it was down to 2 issues,
1. External bell tamper problem.
2. Front door contact may have a fault.

There did not seem to be an issue with other windows on the system, did he test all the zones with a multimeter for the €120 ?

footballmom

Update ...i am back and nothing is better...
Had alarm guy out to the house states system is to old wants to revamp all !
I really am not ready to give up YET! Couple questions for you and Altor....

1. What if i dont have the right security code? Can i reset this ...

2. All these diagnostic codes you guys talk about..Where do you get these from? do you need a laptop to login into the system or something..my kepad is so basic with no displays!

Thanks for the time it just seems like no one wants to work with a 20 year system but i dont feel it is unfixable!

Thanks again

altor

Thanks for getting back to us.
I would say there are two possible causes, devices on the system could be faulty, more so than the control panel itself. May even be the cable if it is that old. The CS250 system we use over here has an LCD keypad which lets us see the log and codes on the system. To default the system you would need an engineer.

If you look at the user manual you will see the LCD keypad we use, maybe ask the engineer if he can default the system and add one of these to it. If he agrees then get him to leave the engineer code at the default so you can service the system.

footballmom

Ok that user manual is not what i have i have the one that is referenced on this forum as a copy..
Can i tell ya status now...my hubby disconnected the 2 motion detectors which are zone 4 and 5 ..these lights are a steady red on the keypad with the armed light blinking.. would default engineer code work on my system the 1278?

Thxs Altor! I wish you guys where local as no one around here will service this system..

altor

footballmom wrote: »

Ok that user manual is not what i have i have the one that is referenced on this forum as a copy..

Where is it referenced ?

footballmom wrote: »

Can i tell ya status now...my hubby disconnected the 2 motion detectors which are zone 4 and 5 ..these lights are a steady red on the keypad with the armed light blinking.. would default engineer code work on my system the 1278?

Thxs Altor! I wish you guys where local as no one around here will service this system..

Looks like they are more interested in a sale of a new system but if upgrading and the devices or cable is faulty then you would have the same issue.

The panel is in alarm, if you put in your user code it should turn off.
If there is resistors in the motions then putting one across the zones in the panel will close off the zone.

If the engineer has the code changed then this code will not work, it is the default code, 1122 is the default user code off your system but this should also of being change to the code you use.

footballmom

The manual not sure where it was referenced but the cover shows a keypad with no display and states SECURITY COMMAND CENTER owners manual ARITECH

Problem with the code is we are not sure what are code is anymore ..so we are trying to figure this out ! UGH.....Thxs for your time on this appreciate it...So by change ya dont know anyone is the USA that services these ?

altor

Not over there I dont

I have found the user manual your referring to. That must be a very old version of the CS250. could the engineer who you had out not default the system or set up a new code for you ?

footballmom

We did have a code and now we really dont know what it is...it is like 3 different ones so need to figure out

Status now....motion detectors, doors and window sensors all seem to be working as i open and shut the keypad is showing that ...

Status = GREEN
Armed = still a blinking RED light..which it is not armed as i can open doors etc no alarm goes off..

all zones 1 -6 change upon opening doors,windows and movement on all floors

kepad is not beeping..so i need to figure out why the blinking RED Armed light

altor

From reading the manual it is an indication that the system is in alarm. The only way to stop the red light is to put in the proper user code to disarm the system.

footballmom

Hi!
I back...
Hope all is well. Update on the system...I was able to get the system out of alarm mode and reset the user code. So when at that point all was good I thought I concord and was back up and running ...About 15 minutes or more of running fine keypad started beeping with zones 5 and zone 6 flashing w/beeps5 is the motion detector on the first floor and 6 is the smoke detectors..Do you have any thoughts on this issue? I was so close ...UGH Thanks Altor!

Another question what if I was to replace my old keypads with the newer CS250 display keypad would this tell me more information to troubleshoot? Also is it just a replacement or do i need to program the new display keypads..THXS!!!!!

altor

I would not think the keypad would work with your older system. It could be a fault with the devices on these zones. Could even be a problem with the power going to the devices since these would be powered off the 12v supply. Close off the zone in the control panel then see if you still have the same problem, if not connect the PIR and leave to see if there is an issue. If none add the smoke detector. Could be either pulling the system down. How old is the battery in the system ?

footballmom

"Close off the zone in the control panel then see if you still have the same problem, if not connect the PIR and leave to see if there is an issue. "

Ok I am sorry but total novice ...How do i close off the zone in the control panel? I do have schematics of the cs250 as i found online...

Also are battery is brand new we just purchased but will check it out with a multi-meter.

Thanks Altor for all your time !

KoolKid

footballmom wrote: »

How do i close off the zone in the control panel?

Disconnect the pair from the control panel & place the end of line resistor across those 2 terminals.

footballmom

Thxs KoolKid! Sounds easy enough will give it a try.....Peace