BVD Pi

tanko

Found out today that i have a six month old calf which is a Pi.Have closed herd for ten years and use all Ai.Have no experience of BVD, how worried should i be?

5live

tanko wrote: »

Found out today that i have a six month old calf which is a Pi.Have closed herd for ten years and use all Ai.Have no experience of BVD, how worried should i be?

Very. While alive the calf will constantly shed virus to all animals it will come into contact with. To other calves, it will cause scours and pneumonia. To in-calf animals of under 2 months will cause embryo death. To those 2 to 4 months will cause some abortions and some will become PIs themselves and continue the cycle. To yhose over 4 months, can cause abortions.

Basically, you are looking at deaths in calves and poor thrive in those that survive and much reduced in-calf rates in the remaining herd. All this assuming you are not vaccinating and the animals have never been exposed before.

Vaccinate. Tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!

greysides

Talk to your vet.

Dispose of the calf. Don't even consider not doing so, they die sooner or later anyways, it's only a matter of how much you spend on it first.

If you have a dairy herd, consider doing a bulk milk PCR test to see if there might be a carrier in the cows. Other stock need individual blood samples taken (though they can be pooled for examination to reduce costs).

Once all PIs are identified and eliminated then you can consider vaccinating. There is no point doing so beforehand.

It should also be considered that some of next seasons calves may be born PI. You should avail of the voluntary BVD testing scheme.

funny man

tanko wrote: »

Found out today that i have a six month old calf which is a Pi.Have closed herd for ten years and use all Ai.Have no experience of BVD, how worried should i be?

Have you tested all the herd or is this a problem animal (sick/poor trive).
look up the Animal health website on BVD and if not done already the rest of the herd should be screened, your vet will be best able to advise you on what coarse of action. Do not vaccinate until all animals are screened, vaccination is an aid nothing more, even if your vaccinating you can still get breakdowns, everyone should do some screening every year especially if you have trouble with scours/deformed calves.

tanko

funny man wrote: »

Have you tested all the herd or is this a problem animal (sick/poor trive).
look up the Animal health website on BVD and if not done already the rest of the herd should be screened, your vet will be best able to advise you on what coarse of action. Do not vaccinate until all animals are screened, vaccination is an aid nothing more, even if your vaccinating you can still get breakdowns, everyone should do some screening every year especially if you have trouble with scours/deformed calves.

Thanks for the replies, have only tested this calf and its mother which is a first calver. She is due again in march. calf is tiny, hasnt grown much, bad hair, always scouring and nearly died of pnuemonia two weeks ago. Its mother is negative for antibodies and Pi. Have no other calves with these problems. all my cows are six weeks to four months in calf im pretty sure. What is the likelihood of problems next spring with calvings etc? ps have a suckler herd.

funny man

tanko wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, have only tested this calf and its mother which is a first calver. She is due again in march. calf is tiny, hasnt grown much, bad hair, always scouring and nearly died of pnuemonia two weeks ago. Its mother is negative for antibodies and Pi. Have no other calves with these problems. all my cows are six weeks to four months in calf im pretty sure. What is the likelihood of problems next spring with calvings etc? ps have a suckler herd.

ask your vet should you screen/blood test the rest of the herd.

LostCovey

tanko wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, have only tested this calf and its mother which is a first calver. She is due again in march. calf is tiny, hasnt grown much, bad hair, always scouring and nearly died of pnuemonia two weeks ago. Its mother is negative for antibodies and Pi. Have no other calves with these problems. all my cows are six weeks to four months in calf im pretty sure. What is the likelihood of problems next spring with calvings etc? ps have a suckler herd.

Re yopur main question: "What is the likelihood of problems next spring with calvings etc?"


It all depends.

You have a Pi cow (dam of this calf). You must cull her too, and not sell her on, as she is a menace.

Like this calf, she is shedding BVD virus in every secretion, and has been since birth.

The chances are that she has infected everything she met in the past 2-3 years (ie whatever age she is), they have formed antibodies and they are immune for life.

She was a danger to anything that was pregnant when they came in contact with her.

As Greysides outlines above, such pregnant animals would have either lost their pregnancy, given birth to a Pi or given birth to a deformed/normal calf - all depending on how pregnant they were when they met her.

There is a chance of a problem next spring, but it is slim - there's a far bigger chance that your Pi cow infected and "vaccinated" your herd. However in doing that, she may give rise to other Pi's in your 2010 & 2011 calves, and these need to be screened urgently (if you do nothing else, do these, but the other advice above is spot on).


LostCovey

pakalasa

If IBR can get into the National Cattle Breeding Centre, then BVD can easily get into any herd in this country.
If it was me. I'd Enfer Earnotch test the whole herd. Cull any further PI's that show up. Vacinate the cows and Earnotch test the new borns next year again.
Don't do anything before you talk to your vet.
Worth having a read of this too;
http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/bvd.php

Strange as it may sound, because the herd has being exposed already, there may be a high level of immunity already developed. Getting rid of the PI's, will turn off the tap on the virus.

blue5000

Bit of coflicting advice above, some say vaccinate tomorrow, others are saying blood test the whole herd to find anymore PI animals, which is it?

OP you are suckling, calving next spring, I think it is too late to vaccinate now as it won't protect your unborn calves. It will help your 2013 calves though. I think it might be better to vaccinate next spring after cows have calved and before they go in calf.

Lads I'm open to correction on this, I'm only a farmer not a vet.

LostCovey

blue5000 wrote: »

Bit of coflicting advice above, some say vaccinate tomorrow, others are saying blood test the whole herd to find anymore PI animals, which is it?

OP you are suckling, calving next spring, I think it is too late to vaccinate now as it won't protect your unborn calves. It will help your 2013 calves though. I think it might be better to vaccinate next spring after cows have calved and before they go in calf.

Lads I'm open to correction on this, I'm only a farmer not a vet.

Not as big a contradiction as it looks.

Vaccination will protect an animal against infection from a transiently infected animal, or some BVD virus on your wellington after visiting your neighbour/a day in the mart.

It won't protect against a Pi in the same pen all winter.

So there is no argument against vaccination. But in a herd already proven to have at least 2 Pis, born at least 2 years apart, it won't be enough.

LC

pakalasa

This year, I did an Ear Notch test on the whole herd, which showed up no PI's. I then vaccinated all in-calf females with Bovidec vaccine and a booster 3 wks later. This was all on my Vet's advice. The herd was about 2/3's in calf at the time. The ideal time is before they all go back in-calf. Even though the OP's herd is well in calf, vaccination will still offer some protection. There may be still some PI's in next years calves, so therefore earnoth again in spring, to detect.
Only giving my opinion - not suggesting you do any of this before talking over with your vet.

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

Only giving my opinion - not suggesting you do any of this before talking over with your vet.

The two best bits of advice in all this are the link to the AHI website and the involvement of your vet.

The AHI info will help you understand a complicated disease and your vet will (hopefully) be able to customise a plan for your individual situation.

LC

tanko

Thanks again for replies. Excuse my ignorance about BVD, but does the enfer tag tell u if an animal is a PI?

LostCovey

tanko wrote: »

Thanks again for replies. Excuse my ignorance about BVD, but does the enfer tag tell u if an animal is a PI?

No.

It tells you if an animal has the DNA of BVD virus in its tissues.

This could be

(a) because it is a perfectly healthy animal that picked up the virus yesterday, will clear it over the next few days, and will be immune to it for the rest of its natural days

(b) because it is a Pi

The only way to tell is to re-check a positive in about 2 weeks using Enfer/another test.

LC

pakalasa

tanko wrote: »

Thanks again for replies. Excuse my ignorance about BVD, but does the enfer tag tell u if an animal is a PI?

Yes it does. I think it cost €5.50 per tag, including testing.
I didn't undetstand the disease either at first.
I had a lot of repeats last year and I though it might be BVD. That's why I tested for it. In fairness to the vet, he said that more than likely I would have no PI's. I read up a bit on it first, so when I was talking to the vet, I had some idea what he was on about.

OK - rephrase the above.
Negative = Not a PI
Positive = could be either Pi or transient infection

blue5000

Can you get false negatives from the ear notch test? Heard of an animal that was clear twice and then the third time (enfer) put it down as +ive.

Min

Surely one wouldn't vaccinate in calf animals?

Aren't they suppose to be done before the breeding season?

btw I had a strange result with the milk test, one test - the Elisa test said high positive, the other test said it was a negative, can anyone explain this?

blue5000

I'm beginning to think there is a money making racket going on in labs, 5.50 for an ear notch, blood samples, milk tests etc.?

greysides

Min wrote: »

Aren't they suppose to be done before the breeding season?

This would be the best time to vaccinate as immune animals will act as a protective shell to shield the conceptus from any virus present.

However, PIs are so heavily infectious the infection pressure can overcome vaccination.

SO...... get rid of PIs before vaccinating and ensure timely vaccination before the breeding season starts........so no more PIs are produced.

btw I had a strange result with the milk test, one test - the Elisa test said high positive, the other test said it was a negative, can anyone explain this?

ELISA checks for antibodies. If animals had been vaccinated shortly before the first test ELISA could be showing up vaccinal antibodies; later the levels would have dropped. Depending on the sensitivity of the test it may not have detected them.
I believe Glanbia are using PCR tests for BVD now. These detect viral DNA/RNA- the genetic fingerprint of the virus.

Personally, I am still unconvinced by bulk milk testing. To me, it's a novel method and going through its baby steps. Time will iron out its glitches and limitations and we'll become more familiar with interpreting it.
Any drastic bulk milk results should be confirmed conventionally before either panicing or embarking on length, expensive vaccination campaigns. It has its uses but lets not fall in love with it too hastily.

blue5000 wrote: »

I'm beginning to think there is a money making racket going on in labs, 5.50 for an ear notch, blood samples, milk tests etc.?

Absolutely but still very cost-effective for the farmer, who is the one to benefit most from tackling BVD.
The proposed eradication campaign for BVD will be paid for in six months by improvements in Dairy herd health; suckler herds will have paid it off in 12 months- a good return on investment.

That is unless Paddy puts a spanner in the works.

flatout11

greysides wrote: »

This would be the best time to vaccinate as immune animals will act as a protective shell to shield the conceptus from any virus present.

However, PIs are so heavily infectious the infection pressure can overcome vaccination.

SO...... get rid of PIs before vaccinating and ensure timely vaccination before the breeding season starts........so no more PIs are produced.

so what happens if you have a clean herd and have been vaccinating for a number of years and purchase a PI .......?
the vast majority of farmers dont quarantine afterall???

Min

greysides wrote: »

ELISA checks for antibodies. If animals had been vaccinated shortly before the first test ELISA could be showing up vaccinal antibodies; later the levels would have dropped. Depending on the sensitivity of the test it may not have detected them.
I believe Glanbia are using PCR tests for BVD now. These detect viral DNA/RNA- the genetic fingerprint of the virus.

Personally, I am still unconvinced by bulk milk testing. To me, it's a novel method and going through its baby steps. Time will iron out its glitches and limitations and we'll become more familiar with interpreting it.
Any drastic bulk milk results should be confirmed conventionally before either panicing or embarking on length, expensive vaccination campaigns. It has its uses but lets not fall in love with it too hastily.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah the Elisa was positive, I had not vaccinated - will next year and the PCR negative, so I looked it up for further info. Seems it indicates transient infection with no PIs present in the milk herd.

http://www.nzvp.co.nz/VPNZ/media/Documents/InformationSheets/BVDPCR_Interp.pdf

LostCovey

flatout11 wrote: »

so what happens if you have a clean herd and have been vaccinating for a number of years and purchase a PI .......?
the vast majority of farmers dont quarantine afterall???

....well the smart answer is that you don't have a clean herd!

Keeping a clean herd means having full biosecurity in place (quarantine & testing of bought-in stock, not just vaccination). And even doing that, one dodgy test result (false negative) could let a Pi sneak in and you are back to square 1.

And that, in a paragraph, is the argument for a national eradication programme I suppose, instead of just letting people do their own controls.

LostCovey

LostCovey

greysides wrote: »

ELISA checks for antibodies.

Not all of them Greysides.

Some ELISA tests check for antibodies (evidence of past exposure to the virus).

And some ELISA tests check for virus antigen (evidence of current infection with the virus, whether transient or persistent - Pi).

Sorry for any confusion here, but its worth setting the record straight.

LC

flatout11

LostCovey wrote: »

....well the smart answer is that you don't have a clean herd!

Keeping a clean herd means having full biosecurity in place (quarantine & testing of bought-in stock, not just vaccination). And even doing that, one dodgy test result (false negative) could let a Pi sneak in and you are back to square 1.

And that, in a paragraph, is the argument for a national eradication programme I suppose, instead of just letting people do their own controls.

LostCovey

LC thanks for the candid answer ....
so for 99% of suckler herds and some dairy herds save your money because....
1 there not self contained purchased replacements etc...
2 biosecurity is a idea really only applicable to an island (neighbours stock trailers etc... it is a virus afterall)
3 quarantine doesnt really exist on farms....
4 Pi s are out there

so in reality short of a national erad programme we realy are only messing around with testing and vacinating until everyone does it!!!!!
not meaning to be negitive but am i wrong here????

greysides

LostCovey wrote: »

Not all of them Greysides.

Some ELISA tests check for antibodies (evidence of past exposure to the virus).


LC

Thanks for clarification. In the case of the bulk milk testing the ELISA has been used for antibodies only (to the best of my knowledge).

The RVLs previously used ELISA for viral antigen but use PCR now.

greysides

flatout11 wrote: »

so in reality short of a national erad programme we realy are only messing around with testing and vacinating until everyone does it!!!!!
not meaning to be negitive but am i wrong here????

You are not wrong but anyone that has had a problem and paid the price in PIs and testing to eliminate PIs from their herd will be well aware of the biosecurity issue and the need to quarantine and test incomers.

In other countries, local areas have tried to control BVD. Usually it breaks down when it comes to eliminating PIs.

Hence the need for a National and preferably compulsary campaign.

pakalasa

If you have tested for Pi's, are vaccinating anually, then you should be ok.
As for buying in animals, new stock bull etc. Keep them isolated and do an earnotch test. You should have the results back in a couple of days.

snowman707

pakalasa wrote: »

If you have tested for Pi's, are vaccinating anually, then you should be ok.
As for buying in animals, new stock bull etc. Keep them isolated and do an earnotch test. You should have the results back in a couple of days.

If I were buying a bull, I would buy one that was tested not test afterwards.

we earnotch before selling

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

If you have tested for Pi's, are vaccinating anually, then you should be ok.
As for buying in animals, new stock bull etc. Keep them isolated and do an earnotch test. You should have the results back in a couple of days.

Yes, in theory this should work, but it won't always work.

Unfortunately people won't keep vaccinating indefinitely for a disease they don't have.

And while a single false negative here & there won't derail an eradication scheme on a national scheme, such a thing is enough to derail an individual control programme based on test & quarantine.

Then you have the range of other things that "just happen". Livestock break in or out, teasers get borrowed, unsold animals get brought home from marts, vaccines get left out of the fridge, individual animals get missed, boosters get forgotten blah blah



LC

pakalasa

Just saw this on donedeal;
This will become the norm, I think.

Entries invited for Simmental Cross Breeding Heifer Sale at Kilkenny Mart, on Thursday 13th October. All animals to be Bvd virus negative tested.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/livestock/2525035

ivanivan1

I can see that the systematic screening and culling of PIs will reduce the prevalence of BVD nationally but will it eradicate the disease? If the virus is able to maintain itself in the cattle population by transient infection, even at a very low level, many of the financial benefits of "eradication" will never be realized.

And what if there is a wildlife reservoir? Deer for example: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3052189/

flatout11

BVD has been a hot topic in the national media for the last few years it has been discussed at numerous roadshows open evenings etc....
but the reality is short of a national programme we are wasting our time or deluding ourselves into thinking we are achieving something by vaccinating testing indivudal herds etc..... what are we spending money on or has no one asked ourselves that
you will never erad the problem but you can severly limit its impact,
yes there will always be a wildlife reservoir but thats there for TB etc...
to be honest if we were in a similar suituation of monitoring etc i would be happy enough....

5live

LostCovey wrote: »

No.

It tells you if an animal has the DNA of BVD virus in its tissues.

This could be

(a) because it is a perfectly healthy animal that picked up the virus yesterday, will clear it over the next few days, and will be immune to it for the rest of its natural days

(b) because it is a Pi

The only way to tell is to re-check a positive in about 2 weeks using Enfer/another test.

LC

Bit confused here. Vaccination has to be repeated every year but exposure leads to lifetime immunity, am i right in that

greysides

5live wrote: »

Bit confused here. Vaccination has to be repeated every year but exposure leads to lifetime immunity, am i right in that

Yes. The difference is that the body responds differently to live, pathogenic virus compared to dead virus.

As in, the live virus is interacting with the immune system leading to a different immune response.

ivanivan1

And because there is a high level of herd immunity after naural infection, a herd can expect to experience a PI event (which may extend for several years if a PI heifer has a PI calf 2 or 3 years later) every 5 to 6 years. In reality few PI heifers survive long enough to deliver a viable calf.

The highest risk of having a PI is when an uninfected herd is exposed for the first time. Such herds are most likely to benefit from vaccination.

IMO Tanko should certainly screen and remove any further PIs from the herd but the train has left the station as far as immediate vaccination is concerned.

pakalasa

Very good article in this weeks journal (15 Oct 2011) in the "VETS CORNER". It's on the inside of the last page. It covers an outbreak of pneumonia in a group of young bulls. Shows how BVD, IBR and Lung Worms interact in a "deadly cocktail".
It was an ivermectin pour-on treatment that triggered the whole thing. BVD had already lowered their immunity and the ivermectin had flooded their lungs with dead worms.
Interesting reading!

snowman707

pakalasa wrote: »

Very good article in this weeks journal (15 Oct 2011) in the "VETS CORNER". It's on the inside of the last page. It covers an outbreak of pneumonia in a group of young bulls. Shows how BVD, IBR and Lung Worms interact in a "deadly cocktail".
It was an ivermectin pour-on treatment that triggered the whole thing. BVD had already lowered their immunity and the ivermectin had flooded their lungs with dead worms.
Interesting reading!

some good reading in this month's Irish Farmer's Monthly as well,

Neddyusa

ivanivan1 wrote: »

I can see that the systematic screening and culling of PIs will reduce the prevalence of BVD nationally but will it eradicate the disease? If the virus is able to maintain itself in the cattle population by transient infection, even at a very low level, many of the financial benefits of "eradication" will never be realized.

And what if there is a wildlife reservoir? Deer for example: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3052189/

Completely agree with this post - especially the bit in bold.

BVD has been shown to be transmissible from sheep to cattle: http://http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8209823
So an eradication programme which only includes bovines while ignoring the transmission of the virus from other ruminants such as sheep, goats and deer, can never be successful.

Granted it may reduce the levels of infection in cattle by a certain amount, but as IvanIvan says, it can never be eliminated. Therefore, I believe that the benefits of the proposed national "eradication" scheme have been wildly exaggerated, especially by those who claim that the disease can be eliminated within two or three years. It can't!

Farmer's should be mindful of this fact and realise that the potential is there for this scheme (in its current form) to become a prepetual merry-go-round of expensive testing....providing much needed extra business for vets, laboratories, and of course the Department :rolleyes:....without ever eradicating anything. In other words just like the TB Erad scheme.

Incidentally sheep, as well as deer and the poor auld badger, can also provide a significant reservoir of TB for transmission to cattle:
http://http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1439-0450.2003.00714.x/abstract

LivInt20

Neddyusa wrote: »

Completely agree with this post - especially the bit in bold.

BVD has been shown to be transmissible from sheep to cattle: http://http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8209823
So an eradication programme which only includes bovines while ignoring the transmission of the virus from other ruminants such as sheep, goats and deer, can never be successful.

Granted it may reduce the levels of infection in cattle by a certain amount, but as IvanIvan says, it can never be eliminated. Therefore, I believe that the benefits of the proposed national "eradication" scheme have been wildly exaggerated, especially by those who claim that the disease can be eliminated within two or three years. It can't!

Farmer's should be mindful of this fact and realise that the potential is there for this scheme (in its current form) to become a prepetual merry-go-round of expensive testing....providing much needed extra business for vets, laboratories, and of course the Department :rolleyes:....without ever eradicating anything. In other words just like the TB Erad scheme.

Incidentally sheep, as well as deer and the poor auld badger, can also provide a significant reservoir of TB for transmission to cattle:
http://http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1439-0450.2003.00714.x/abstract

Think you need to read the attached.

Economics of Eradicating BVD from Ireland
http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/BVD%20eradication%20CBA%20study%20Ireland_Report-Final.pdf

It can only benefit all farmers interested in making profits to eradicate BVD.

There is alot of info regarding BVD on AHI website http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/bvd.php

greysides

If you were to individually blood screen every animal in a herd down to six months old and remove all PI's and then vaccinate those not already naturally immune, by the time you could individually test those non-tested animals, now 6-12 months old, that group will show a huge reduction in the percentage that have been exposed. Some of that exposure will have occurred before screening began too.

In the proposed programme, calves are checked at birth. There is no need to wait until 6 m.o. so potential PIs aren't left hanging around in the same environment as the PI incubators (non-immune breeding females). As the whole national herd is being tested together the potential for herd to herd transmission is lessened also.

The greatest source of virus, by far, is a PI.

As most PIs don't live past 2 y.o. (the vast majority don't see 1 y.o.) then after 2-3 years of testing no PIs will be in the younger orders of the herd and all cows will have been checked by dent of their calves results.This should go a long way to getting rid of PIs from Ireland. There will be targeted follow up testing thereafter.

The proposed BVD eradication methodology is the same as has been adopted by the Swiss. So a vote of confidence there.

Farmer's should be mindful of this fact and realise that the potential is there for this scheme (in its current form) to become a prepetual merry-go-round of expensive testing....providing much needed extra business for vets, laboratories, and of course the Department ....without ever eradicating anything. In other words just like the TB Erad scheme.

The majority of the work will be done by farmers with the eartags. Vets would seem to only have minimal involvement in confirming eartag results and checking dams of those calves. Maybe at the latter stages there may be some work with targeted blood testing.

Besides faciltiating the scheme legally, and contributing towards AHI, the Dept involvement is minmal. In other words, very dissimilar to the TB Erad Scheme.

This is my understanding of proposed events.

Neddyusa

greysides wrote: »

If you were to individually blood screen every animal in a herd down to six months old and remove all PI's and then vaccinate those not already naturally immune, by the time you could individually test those non-tested animals, now 6-12 months old, that group will show a huge reduction in the percentage that have been exposed. Some of that exposure will have occurred before screening began too.

In the proposed programme, calves are checked at birth. There is no need to wait until 6 m.o. so potential PIs aren't left hanging around in the same environment as the PI incubators (non-immune breeding females). As the whole national herd is being tested together the potential for herd to herd transmission is lessened also.

The greatest source of virus, by far, is a PI.

As most PIs don't live past 2 y.o. (the vast majority don't see 1 y.o.) then after 2-3 years of testing no PIs will be in the younger orders of the herd and all cows will have been checked by dent of their calves results.This should go a long way to getting rid of PIs from Ireland. There will be targeted follow up testing thereafter.

The proposed BVD eradication methodology is the same as has been adopted by the Swiss. So a vote of confidence there.



The majority of the work will be done by farmers with the eartags. Vets would seem to only have minimal involvement in confirming eartag results and checking dams of those calves. Maybe at the latter stages there may be some work with targeted blood testing.

Besides faciltiating the scheme legally, and contributing towards AHI, the Dept involvement is minmal. In other words, very dissimilar to the TB Erad Scheme.

This is my understanding of proposed events.

That is a good explanation of how the scheme would reduce the number of PIs over time. The problem is that this testing programme would need to continue indefinitely because once it stopped, re-infection from other species would ultimately begin increasing PI numbers again.

My point is that the costing analysis is misleading because it assumes that the scheme will only last for six years. But because the disease cannot be eradicated, only controlled (as per the similarity with the TB erad scheme), this testing scheme will need to continue on an ongoing basis. This is without considering the small proportions of PIs which could go undetected due to false negatives. And the costs of the scheme could be much greater if the prevalence of PIs turned out to be higher than projected in the modelling exercise.

Regardless of whether the funding for this scheme goes to AHI, the Department of Ag or vets, it is ultimately the farmer, and the taxpayer who will be paying for it. Therefore, a costing exercise which modelled a "permanent monitor and control testing scheme", rather than a "short term eradication scheme" would be a more appropriate way to determine value for money.

greysides

Neddyusa wrote: »

The problem is that this testing programme would need to continue indefinitely because once it stopped, re-infection from other species would ultimately begin increasing PI numbers again.

All I can say about that is that those who are considered experts don't think cross-species transfer is a problem under real-world conditions.
That the Swiss are going to use the same methodolgy as us suggests that their experts are in agreement............. and there's probably more goats there than here.

My point is that the costing analysis is misleading because it assumes that the scheme will only last for six years. But because the disease cannot be eradicated, only controlled (as per the similarity with the TB erad scheme), this testing scheme will need to continue on an ongoing basis. This is without considering the small proportions of PIs which could go undetected due to false negatives. And the costs of the scheme could be much greater if the prevalence of PIs turned out to be higher than projected in the modelling exercise.

Other countries have eradicated b BVD so eradication is possible. Targeted screening will continue after the initial culling. A bulk milk PCR test is an efficient way of checking a dairy herd, selected blood sampling will have to be done in Suckler herds.

I think you're correct about small proportions of PIs which could go undetected due to false negatives in that there will be some. The thing about the eradication of a disease on a national level is that huge improvements will be made initially but there will be some sweeping up to do later. In such a large population it becomes a statistical excercise and the experts has decided it can be done. Here, as elsewhere.

The costs to the farming community will be higher if the incidence turns out to be higher than expected. And it will..... in some farms. BUT, these are the farms that will see the greatest benefit from eradicating it. The figures taken are likely to be sound, nationally, as there have been surveys done to acertain what they are.

The returns on the eradication investment are such that even doubling the cost would still make it worthwhile.

Regardless of whether the funding for this scheme goes to AHI, the Department of Ag or vets, it is ultimately the farmer, and the taxpayer who will be paying for it. Therefore, a costing exercise which modelled a "permanent monitor and control testing scheme", rather than a "short term eradication scheme" would be a more appropriate way to determine value for money.

The costs of AHI are coming from the Dept, Industry and Farming organisations. The expert groups are giving their time free. The loss of culls is to be borne by the farmers concerned. There is no money for compensation. The tax payer is exempt from paying for this one. This is not a State Eradication program. This is elements of the farming community coming together to the benefit of all. It is necessary as it is a bargining chip for the sale of our product abroad. We have to have the same standards as our competitors.

Whether the costings are based on the right type of scheme we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm not going to re-read this thread so I don't know if it's been said before...................In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to the success of this program is the handling of the PI calves.

It sinks or swims based on that.

If it fails it won't be because of cross-species transfer or small numbers of PI's left undetected.