Courtney Lawes Cited

Happyman42

Anybody know of a link to the incident?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/0912/1224303981514.html

GerM

I'd be surprised if a suspension resulted. It was clumsy but it can be argued that he was just trying to push him into touch. There was certainly an element of nastiness in it but it's a hard one to prove so I think he'll walk free. There's a ban coming for that bloke some time soon though. He is a repeat culprit when it comes to late borderline hits.

endabob1

I'd agree with that GerM, he was involved in a few incidents, as he always is, but difficult to prove it was malicious, in that specific case if definitely looked more clumsy
than deliberate.

jacothelad

I'm surprised he wasn't cited for his late, deliberate shoulder charge into the back ribs of Tiesi (I think). It was a deliberate, despicable act of foul play, something for which he is becoming known.

fitz

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm surprised he wasn't cited for his late, deliberate shoulder charge into the back ribs of Tiesi (I think). It was a deliberate, despicable act of foul play, something for which he is becoming known.

Exactly, and it's resulted in Tiesi missing the rest of the tournament.

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm surprised he wasn't cited for his late, deliberate shoulder charge into the back ribs of Tiesi (I think). It was a deliberate, despicable act of foul play, something for which he is becoming known.

I'd love to see him cited for it but he will never be unless it's blatantly late. He has learned these tricks and become very good at it, especially the late hit on a kicker. He did it several times throughout the season. The malice in it can be seen as he rarely goes for the ball or tries to block it but goes through the planted side of the kicker. It's very dangerous and needs to be stamped out. Even when he doesn't get there he tries little niggly tricks like dropping the shoulder into Murphy in the warm up game which saw us win a penalty. He's a cheap shot merchant which is a pity because he's a superb athlete.

irishbucsfan

Regardless of it being late, it was an illegal shoulder charge.

There's no reason he shouldn't be suspended for it whether or not its seen as late.

PhatPiggins

GerM wrote: »

I'd love to see him cited for it but he will never be unless it's blatantly late. He has learned these tricks and become very good at it, especially the late hit on a kicker. He did it several times throughout the season. The malice in it can be seen as he rarely goes for the ball or tries to block it but goes through the planted side of the kicker. It's very dangerous and needs to be stamped out. Even when he doesn't get there he tries little niggly tricks like dropping the shoulder into Murphy in the warm up game which saw us win a penalty. He's a cheap shot merchant which is a pity because he's a superb athlete.

That is the most frustrating thing about Lawes. You can understand the like of Johnson,Harrison or Grewcock continually resorting to the dirty stuff as they were all in the big,slow, awkward category but Lawes is a specimen.

thomond2006

As the Setanta lads said, guys like Lawes will keep at this kind of dirty **** unless the disciplinary process comes down hard on it.

mikedragon32

Cheap shots, does it too often to be accidental. There was no effort to avoid contact for either the hit on the Tiese or the knees to the head of Ledesma.

It's this cynical dirty play that annoys the crap out of me.

Edited to add:

A fcuking QC representing him at the disciplinary hearing? FFS!!! Has Jonno turned into Woodward?

handsomecake

sure he even said in the press in the build up he was looking forward to a fight

Junior

There's a bit more of this around this English team of the last few years. Armitage's late hit on BOD, there seems to be a real undercurrent of doing a player if you get the chance, I don't doubt it's come from Johnson himself..

who the fug

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Cheap shots, does it too often to be accidental. There was no effort to avoid contact for either the hit on the Tiese or the knees to the head of Ledesma.

It's this cynical dirty play that annoys the crap out of me.

Edited to add:

A fcuking QC representing him at the disciplinary hearing? FFS!!! Has Jonno turned into Woodward?

You need them, last time London Irish sent a player without a lawyer to a hearing he got six weeks, and he was the one on the receiving end of the punches

ANXIOUS

Im not surprised, he strikes me as a very dirty player. He made no attempt to put his hands down to break his fall. He went in knees first.

pajunior

While I agree with just about everything said about Lawes here, I don't think this incident was the worst or even that bad.

He was unlucky to catch the Argentinian with his knee. Lawes was sprinting across to tackle a player but a split second before he made the tackle another English player takes the Argentinian down, as he falls, Lawes hits him.

I wouldn't like to see Lawes banned for this because it could have been accidental and could happen to any player. In fact he had a worse one in the very same game (shouldering a player from behind).

sock puppet

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm surprised he wasn't cited for his late, deliberate shoulder charge into the back ribs of Tiesi (I think). It was a deliberate, despicable act of foul play, something for which he is becoming known.

Looked like a perfectly good tackle to me though it was a bit late.

chris85

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zG9f-dMFJ0

He does lead in with the knee.

Ardillaun

GerM wrote: »

I'd be surprised if a suspension resulted. It was clumsy but it can be argued that he was just trying to push him into touch. There was certainly an element of nastiness in it but it's a hard one to prove so I think he'll walk free. There's a ban coming for that bloke some time soon though. He is a repeat culprit when it comes to late borderline hits.

Agreed. He reminds me of Delon Armitage in that regard.

MungBean

He led with the knee, he's arms were no where near the player he was tackling. Only thing that will save him is that he'll argue he over ran the tackle. But I doubt he'll include the fact that having over run the tackle he deliberately dropped in the knee to make contact.

He should be suspended for the duration of the world cup.

SuprSi

See the thing is if he did that in any other area of the pitch, he'd be called up on it. There's trying to push somebody out to touch, and there's trying to hurt them. If he had slid in maybe it wouldn't have been so bad, but I don't think his knees touch the ground before hitting the player.

I agree about Armitage - he caught Sexton late in Twickenham last year after he sent Bowe through for a try, and I believe he did something similar the first time England played in Croke Park, which irked the Irish lads somewhat!

wixfjord

Courtney is from the Northampton school of tackling obviously.
There was another late one before that where he was borderline aswell.

CatFromHue

He lead with the knees in a tackle he didn't need to commit as the Argy was already in touch. He also made contact with the head and left the Argy in a bad way. If you ask me this is a no brainer. He should be banned.

DM360

Skunkle wrote: »

He should be suspended for the duration of the world cup.

I agree, fair is fair. He denies someone their World Cup and in turn his should be cut short, albeit for a different incident. I thought the Ledesma "tackle" was deliberate, the Argentine was clearly going down and out of play. Plus as someone mentioned, he doesn't slide in, instead just throws himself knees-first.

The Tiesi incident wasn't as bad, still malicious though and could be applied during the citing as it shows repeat offences of recklessness and/or dangerous tackling.

However I wouldn't be hopeful about him missing more than 3 games. I'd be content if he were to sit out the rest of the group stages.

profitius

It was a dirty one from Lawes, not for the first time. Xavier Rush gave him some of his own medicine last season which was good to see.

Heaslip got a long suspension (rightfully so) after kneeing McKaw and Lawes was much more dangerous.

.ak

It's just such a pity that it was this incident that he gets cited for.. As I really can't see anyone proving that it was deliberate. And now he'll be on his best behaviour (which means he'll be more sneaky about his antics) as he'll be watched...

GerM

mikedragon32 wrote: »

A fcuking QC representing him at the disciplinary hearing? FFS!!! Has Jonno turned into Woodward?

Nothing unusual about that. Donal Spring, solicitor, former international and brother of Dick, represents Irish players at their hearings. In fact I believe he was the one who highlighted a legal loophole in the ML citing process several years ago that revealed the ML didn't have the authority to cite/suspend players and saw Jennings walk free.

keith16

sock puppet wrote: »

Looked like a perfectly good tackle to me though it was a bit late.

I don't know, there is such a thing as hitting hard and hitting fair...Lawes doesn't hold his man in the tackle, really a dangerous charge disguised as a tackle...he appears to wrap his arms initially...

I was expecting Argentina to be a bit more dirty.

scriba

keith16 wrote: »

I was expecting Argentina to be a bit more dirty.

Jamie Haskell appeared to have his knickers in a twist at the end of the game, although subsequently he backed out of making any claims. The game didn't really look like boiling over at any time.

kelly70

Hopefully Lawes gets what he deserves. I am sure Johnson is proud of him.

thomond2006

kelly70 wrote: »

Hopefully Lawes gets what he deserves. I am sure Johnson is proud of him.

:rolleyes:

keith16

scriba wrote: »

Jamie Haskell appeared to have his knickers in a twist at the end of the game, although subsequently he backed out of making any claims. The game didn't really look like boiling over at any time.

Spotted that, think I might have heard him shout something about "the eyes" through the ref's mic?? ITV commentators were falling over themselves apologising for "the language"!

handsomecake

keith16 wrote: »

Spotted that, think I might have heard him shout something about "the eyes" through the ref's mic?? ITV commentators were falling over themselves apologising for "the language"!

i also heard " you ****ing prick"

Peter B

RE: the Lawes incident

Even if he didn't mean to make contact with the head (which I think he did btw) he should be done for reckless use of his knees. Players must take responsibility of where and how they make contact with other players even if by mistake.

The same way as if I am going into a ruck and there is a player lying on the wrong side I am still responsible if I step on his face. If I didn't see him, then I bloody well should have.

Cypher_sounds

Dived into a players who was laying helpless on the ground, went in with his knees towards the players head, knew exactly what he was doing imo, very dirty.

V_Moth

I am glad it is not just me who thinks that Lawes has been reckless at times when tackling opponents (hopefully he will get banned). Another player that stands out in terms of reckless tackling is Lee Byrne (see Thom Evans).

Btw, was it Lawes that caused David Wallace's injury?

Wollwead

V_Moth wrote: »

I am glad it is not just me who thinks that Lawes has been reckless at times when tackling opponents (hopefully he will get banned). Another player that stands out in terms of reckless tackling is Lee Byrne (see Thom Evans).

Btw, was it Lawes that caused David Wallace's injury?

No it was tuilangi (sp)

tolosenc

Couldn't happen to a more deserving player. Well, maybe Armitage or Tuilagi or Banahan or...

thomond2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/14870264.stm

Banned for 2 games: Georgia and Romania. May as well not have banned him at all tbh.

fitz

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/14870264.stm

Banned for 2 games: Georgia and Romania. May as well not have banned him at all tbh.

Less than the minimum guideline?
The judicial officer completely bottled it.
Should have got the 3 weeks at least.

dregin

"However, taking into account mitigating factors being his excellent disciplinary record and remorse and the absence of aggravating factors, the player was suspended for two weeks."

I'm sorry, but I have to LOL at that last comment. Have they ever actually seen the guy play before??

castie

dregin wrote: »

"However, taking into account mitigating factors being his excellent disciplinary record and remorse and the absence of aggravating factors, the player was suspended for two weeks."

I'm sorry, but I have to LOL at that last comment. Have they ever actually seen the guy play before??

I think that since he hasnt been done before they have to say that.
At least now this is a black mark against him for the next time.

Should have got more.

steve9859

handsomecake wrote: »

i also heard " you ****ing prick"

Funny article in the times today. He shouted "you f***ing c***", but there has not been a single complaint to ITV. There's been a hatful of complaints that the rugby was on instead of iCarly (some kiddies sitcom apparently) at 9am on a saturday morning, but no complaints that the little kids heard someone shouting f***ing c*** instead!!

In his defence, Haskell has been badly gouged before - I cent remember who it was who was banned for gouging him - so he went a bit nuts when he felt hands on his face again even though there was no attempt at a gouge

Oh, and Im an england fan, but agree that Lawes' punishment was not really enough. He isn't a particularly clean player, and I don't like to see it from any team, even my own

GerM

steve9859 wrote: »

In his defence, Haskell has been badly gouged before - I cent remember who it was who was banned for gouging him - so he went a bit nuts when he felt hands on his face again even though there was no attempt at a gouge

It was all round nice guy Neil Best. He copped an 18 week holiday for it.

steve9859

steve9859 wrote: »

He isn't a particularly clean player

Spit a little tea on the screen at this, powerfully diplomatic!

Hopefully he irons this "mean streak" out of his game because it's wholly uneccesary for him. The guy is shaping up to be a class act, but mixing with the wrong bunch will taint him immeasurably.

2 weeks is a sham though.

steve9859

Elisha Jealous Penniless wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

He isn't a particularly clean player

Spit a little tea on the screen at this, powerfully diplomatic!

Hopefully he irons this "mean streak" out of his game because it's wholly uneccesary for him. The guy is shaping up to be a class act, but mixing with the wrong bunch will taint him immeasurably.

2 weeks is a sham though.

That is very diplomatic for me. Im a Leicester season ticket holder and I had to stop myself from writing "a dirty cheating Northampton ****".

I thought I did quite well with "not particularly clean"!!

steve9859

GerM wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

In his defence, Haskell has been badly gouged before - I cent remember who it was who was banned for gouging him - so he went a bit nuts when he felt hands on his face again even though there was no attempt at a gouge

It was all round nice guy Neil Best. He copped an 18 week holiday for it.

Ah yes, I remember. 18 weeks certainly sent a message!!

MungBean

Two game ban is pointless. Hopefully now he has a record though the next incident will land him with a proper ban.

SuprSi

I also like how the judge mentioned Lawes showed remorse, yet still pleaded not guilty? Not sure how that works your honour.

mikedragon32

SuprSi wrote: »

I also like how the judge mentioned Lawes showed remorse, yet still pleaded not guilty? Not sure how that works your honour.

Now I see why he needed a QC.