Immobiliser issues!

hrcbob

Hi folks, I have a renault master van that is giving some ignition issues. I went to start it yesterday to do a bit of work and i ran into a bit of bother, The ignition barrel has always been a bit iffey as the spring for returning the key to the "on" position from the "start" position is gone so it has to be moved back once the van has started. When i tried yesterday the van fired first time as usual but stopped as quickly.. i thought it was just that id turned the key back too quick and stalled it but it did it again when i tried seconfd time,, Now it is at a point where it will turn over all day long without firing and the immobiliser light is flashing like a strobe!!

I guess my question is if i were to replace the ignition and key would i need to change the ecu too?? I live in a rural area so taking the van to a garage to get it fixed will be a costly effort for a van that isnt worth much so i want to try sort it myself if i can. If all comes to all i can hard wire the injector pump to bypass the ecu but id rather not have to.. Suggestions welcome.. Thanks..

muckeyw

I've actually done one of theses before.for this to work your best bet is to change the chip in your key,the receiver around the barrel,there's also a immob box in the passenger footwell which splits in to and is heald together buy about 15 relays and last but not least you need the new ecu.but for it to work properly without bringing it to be coded all the parts must be off the same van

hrcbob

Right so it looks like ill be cuttin the top off the injector pump to get at the solenoid valve and direct wire it. that sounds like too much grief and cash to be spent ona 1400 euro van

Lucifer

I have had a similar problem twice before with an opel vivaro and a renault traffic, both the same vans, and each time it turned out to be the immobiliser reader around the ignition barrell. They both also share the same part with the Opel Movano/ Renault Master, so this may be all that is wrong with yours. The reader is not programmed as it is only a reader and it passed the signal from the key to the BCM (body control module) which is programmed for the immobiliser.

hrcbob

So if im reading you right i can just change the chip and reader and i should be on easy street??

Lucifer

No. Just the immobiliser reader around the ignition barrell. If you replace the chip in the key you would need to get the new chip programmed.

Can't promise you its your problem, just I've had it twice before, and they seem to be the same part in the master so possible that yours has also gone faulty. To be sure you would need to check for trouble codes and go from there.

crosshair1

What year is it?

hrcbob

Sorry should have said.. its 99..

crosshair1

I've used immobiliser bypass devices on these but only on the commonrail engines, if you have an injector pump the cheapest option will be to remove the immobiliser head and ignition power the solenoid.
If you open your key there should be an 8 digit number on a label inside, from here download the application
http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=Test_for_Renault_Key_Immobiliser_failures_emergency_recode

This will give you a 4 digit code to manually enter via door lock switch (google this)

This will get you up and running at least.

hrcbob

That emergency code is dead handy.. thanks,, atleast ill be able to get it somewhere to get it sorted without havin to pay for recovery,, thanks again

crosshair1

If you manage to get the emergency code entered and it starts, you can buy record playback units to send the same signal out to the pump every time you start.
http://www.hickleys.com/diagnostics/renault_emulator.php

hrcbob

I was just thinkin about removing the immobiliser part from the injector pump there in my head and i wonder would the ecu still function properly with an immobiliser alarm?? Surely the immobiliser shuts down all engine management functions like air mass readings and map sensor readings?? Would it be a case that it would run but like a bag of spanners without the ecu controling fueling???

hrcbob

It would also seem i dont have a genuine renault key as the code inside isnt accepted by the recode program.. :rolleyes: i took off a digit off the code that is inside the key i have to make it fit the program but i doubt it will do the bizz.

crosshair1

Post a pic of the key insides& label if you can, Im not aware of any key possibility on these only genuine

hrcbob

Sorry bout the poor pic quality.. the key has been apart a few times by the looks of it so it could have had the code sticker removed,, there is a number printed on the circuit board but it may not have anything to do with the code,, Would a new key gotten from renault usuing the chassis number be the same code??

crosshair1

Code would have been on a paper label stuck to the pcb, do you have the manual it may be in it.
Otherwise off to the dealer...

hrcbob

Ill have to check the manual but i doubt its in it. Was in the dealers today.. :rolleyes: Is it just me or does everyone else get the impression that main dealers dont care once the warranty is out>?> Alll i got for this guy was "" you may bring in the CAR or we cant do anything" this was after i had explained 3 times that it was a van and i wasnt in a position to get it transported!!

If i were to order a new key through the main dealers off the chassis numbers would it come pre coded?? It would have the paper code inside it if i took it apart so i could use the emergency program in the worst case scenario??

crosshair1

Yes these keys are precoded on the immobiliser side, dealers are reluctant to part with a key without a vehicle being present, they will tell you it needs to be coded but that is incorrect.
If you dont have the code you are at the mercy of the dealer unfortunately, there is no way around that (been there have the tshirt)

hrcbob

I realise its a security issue for them to hand out keys like that so wat i can do is bring in the lig book in my name some id and ill have the original key for them to visually match the new one to before they hand over the new one so it shouldnt realy be that much of an issue.. Im thinkin i might try another dealers than mr helpful that i was with today though.. He reckons a key works out around 150 odd euro so prob cheaper than gettin a long wheelbase high roof van transported anywhere,,

crosshair1

Theres no point going and telling them their business, if you want this van back on the road and you dont have the code from the key then you will need to get the van to them and let them do their thing... you are now out of all other options.

hrcbob

Yea i guess so.. All i can do is ask very politely and cross my fingers..

crosshair1

If you do manage to find a dealer that will give you a key, pm me details.

hrcbob

I have a friend who knows a guy in one so if all else fails he might be able to do a favour for me.. ill let you know anyways..

hrcbob

Ok i decided to have a chat with an auto electrician before goin mad spendin money in renault.. Basically a quick diagnostic which he called out to do after work hours for a very reasonable fee he confirmed the key was the problem.. We discussed options and have come to a cheap and cheerful solution,, While searching the net the other nite thou i did come across this site http://www.remotekey.co.uk/cars/renault/master/ . it seems like a useful gadget and can be quickly and easily removed to re enable the immobiliser,, they dont ship to ireland but im sure there are some people out there with ways and means to get it over here.. thanks for help and advice folks..

crosshair1

You still need the key code for that device

hrcbob

when i saw their pics of the key i found mine printed on the inside of the plastic bit.. i was able to read it under a bright white/blue led torch. its almost invisible in natural light.. This code is needed to do ANYTHING with the immobiliser system as i discovered through the auto electrician..

Joe_flanagan

HI I don't know if anyone is following this post anymore but I also am having similar trouble with my 2003 Renault Trafic. The immobilizer light will stop flashing and then engine will try start but not ignite. I have it in with renault and they said it is the body control unit thats coming up with a fault. I am just wondering if it could be the immobilzer reader at the ignition barrel that is gone and if your emergency immobilizer deactivation would wok in this situation? Thanks for your help.

hrcbob

From my understanding, when the light stops flashing the code has been accepted and it should start unless there is a different fault in the system.

Joe_flanagan

Yea the light just never flashes, central locking isnt working, hazard lights and indicators. I initally thought it was a bad wire going to the uch which was just messing up the immobilizer but do you think it could be the whole uch if that other stuff isnt working too?

hrcbob

Im afraid im no help to you on that,, My knowledge of them is pretty limited, Id suggest trying Mr google,, you may find something on there.

paultronix

Joe_flanagan wrote: »

HI I don't know if anyone is following this post anymore but I also am having similar trouble with my 2003 Renault Trafic. The immobilizer light will stop flashing and then engine will try start but not ignite. I have it in with renault and they said it is the body control unit thats coming up with a fault. I am just wondering if it could be the immobilzer reader at the ignition barrel that is gone and if your emergency immobilizer deactivation would wok in this situation? Thanks for your help.

it does sound like the uch(bcm) has failed as it is fairly common on these van's,
its a bit of a pain to access but if you can get to it you'll probably be able to confirm its damaged by a visual inspection of the 2 plugs as they are possibly corroded,cheapest fix is to get a replacement from a scrap van and get it coded for the immobiliser.