A question, if thats ok?

scholar007

Why do some Lesbians dress like fellas, cut their hair short and generally act masculine. I'll attach a proviso that I'm genuinely perplexed by this. It is not my intention to offend anyone and please accept my most sincere apologies in advance if I do, but it is something I have often wondered about.

baby and crumble

I really want to reply to this in a coherent manner but I need sleep to do so!

scholar007

baby and crumble wrote: »

I really want to reply to this in a coherent manner but I need sleep to do so!

Óiche mhaith.

Sonics2k

Comfort.

People will wear the clothes they feel comfortable in, as well as believe they look good in. For the same reason some Lesbians will wear make-up and dresses.

littlehedgehog

As someone who wears typically "masculine" clothes, I wanna back up the response of comfort.

For me, I wear the clothes I am comfortable in, and when I'm look in the mirror, I like to see myself in.

When I am wearing my work clothes (smart trousers, tops with scooped necks, etc) - I do not look like me. I spend the day uncomfortable, and can't wait to get home to my jeans/shorts.

The clothes I wear have nothing at all to do with my sexuality, except for the fact it is probably more acceptable for a lesbian (rather than a straight girl) to dress the way I dress!

TL;DR - Nothing to do with sexuality - I just wear clothes I am comfortable in

baby and crumble

Right. I may ramble. I apologise.

Why does anyone dress any way? Why do you dress the way you do? Comfort- to look good- to feel good- because you like the clothes. All reasons people choose a certain cut of jeans, a certain type of neckline, and a particular jacket. So many people, in particular straight men (just my opinion) think that they just wear clothes to cover up. It's so not that simple. I don't know if you're a straight guy (I Have a feeling you are, but I could be wrong), you might think "I wear jeans and a tee shirt because I want to". Yes, but you choose- perhaps unknowingly- from maybe 6 different cuts of jeans, and 3 or 4 t-shirt types. Why choose one over the other? Probably because you tried them on and liked how they make you look. You probably have no idea that a lot of the clothes you will wear in the next week have been inspired by or come directly from womens fashion.

The exact same applies to everyone else in the world. Full disclosure- I dress in masculine clothing. I have short hair. As for 'acting masculine', what does that mean? Does that mean aggression, beer swilling, acting aloof- all the stereotypes of male behaviour? Or does it mean an absence of stereotypical female behaviour? I have no idea if I act 'masculine'- I just act like me. Bits will be stereotypically 'male' (like opening doors for women, always letting older people/ pregnant women sit down on a bus), but bits of me will be stereotypically female (I work in the care industry, I am obsessed with shoes, and I am ABYSMAL with DIY) Now, those are all stereotypes. But I think that's what you're concerned about. Women doing things that are stereotypically male. Every single women in the world wears 'masculine' clothing, if you want to be pedantic. Jeans? Mens clothing. Shirts? Mens. Blazers? Mens. But somehow if they're worn with long hair and heels, they're suddenly not threatening any more?

As for me, and the clothes I wear, it's for a few reasons. Comfort does play a pretty big part. Jeans and a tee and very comfy. Personally, I like menswear more than womenswear. I think shirts and ties and waistcoats just look cooler and slicker than floaty tops and skirts. My body looks better in more tailored clothes. I need stiff collars and structured clothes, otherwise I look like like some kind of chintz marshmallow. When I tried to force myself into more girly clothes, I looked and felt incredibly uncomfortable, but I don't just mean physically uncomfortable, like with annoying shoes and straps, I mean deeply, deeply uncomfortable. Within myself, like I just wasn't being me.

And I struggled for a long time with wanting to wear the clothes I do. It wasn't until a few years ago, when I hit my late 20's that I just figured out that I was dressing for other people, not for me. And guess what happened? Not only did I begin to feel far more confident, but I began to get compliments on the clothes I wear. Not just from other gay people, who usually are more relaxed about stuff like this, but like, everyone. I have had the security guards on my building compliment my ties. I have had people I don't know tell me they like my jacket. I have had people I only the names of because they are leaders in my field of research say "God I LOVE your shoes!"

I dislike the term 'butch', mostly because it has become a negative word. But I think the reason for that is that butch women make people uncomfortable. Nobody knows where to put us, like camp men. Although camp men have entertainment value- they say funny things like "ooo-err!" and say catty things that make people giggle. Butch women are viewed as overly serious, aggressive, and a little bit scary. Men don't like butch women getting in on their turf. Women don't know how to react to very butch women. Nobody knows how to look at them. Sometimes no-one knows if they are male or female.

So, to finish up what has been a ridiculously long post which I apologise for- people dress the way they do, and act the way they do, because that's how they are as individuals. No overarching 'reason', like wanting to 'trick' straight girls into sleeping with them, or wanting be be men. I love being a woman. I am very happy with my body being female, because I am female. I don't try and disguise my breasts, or my hips, or anything like that.

TL;DR- people are people and dress in clothes they like.

stephen_n

Ok and accepting that all these answers are true and there is nothing to suggest they aren't but I would still feel that there is sexuality aspect to the way of dressing. We all like to stand out from the crowd in some way and predominantly women do this by how they dress, sometimes in quite subtle differences some very obvious and bold statements but for the most part from what I can see the idea of going out looking exactly like your mates is something that would horrify most girls over the age of ten but sometimes looking at one corner of the George is like an extended identity parade with an almost uniform dress code that I would more readily identify with male subsets. Dressing comfortably isn't the sole bastian of gay women though but it just seems there is more too it in the group nature or in the collective thinking behind it! Personally I think like a lot of men do (even though I appreciate the effort) that most women are tapped, putting fashion and looking good ahead of comfort and wearing clothes and shoes that cause pain just to look good!

It's funny though that the thought of women breaking gender molds in dress sense has obviously been one to cause consternation for a long time given the old term of reference for lesbians being "women in comfortable shoes"!

baby and crumble

stephen_n wrote: »

Ok and accepting that all these answers are true and there is nothing to suggest they aren't but I would still feel that there is sexuality aspect to the way of dressing. We all like to stand out from the crowd in some way and predominantly women do this by how they dress, sometimes in quite subtle differences some very obvious and bold statements but for the most part from what I can see the idea of going out looking exactly like your mates is something that would horrify most girls over the age of ten but sometimes looking at one corner of the George is like an extended identity parade with an almost uniform dress code that I would more readily identify with male subsets. Dressing comfortably isn't the sole bastian of gay women though but it just seems there is more too it in the group nature or in the collective thinking behind it! Personally I think like a lot of men do (even though I appreciate the effort) that most women are tapped, putting fashion and looking good ahead of comfort and wearing clothes and shoes that cause pain just to look good!

It's funny though that the thought of women breaking gender molds in dress sense has obviously been one to cause consternation for a long time given the old term of reference for lesbians being "women in comfortable shoes"!

I guess you don't walk around temple bar or basically any nightclub in Dublin so! All I ever see is carbon copy girls all wearing the exact same as each other- dresses that don't cover much, high shoes that look painful and hair done up like some kind of birds nest.

Of course sexuality comes into it- everyone dresses to impress, and to feel attractive to their intended gender. It would be foolhardy to suggest otherwise. And as for there being a uniform in the George for women, there's the exact same for men- the amount of men i see in pretty tight tees is incredible! But there is a comfort in dressing similarly to your peers, and your friends, because often your clothes are a reflection of that peer group. Like, it's rare you'll find a hardcore raver who chooses to wear suits in their spare time, or a heavy metal fan who wears football jerseys out to Fibbers.

And another element to add into the mix is style- which isn't just about clothes. When I say I wear masculine clothes, I wear them MY way. In that way, I would generally stand out from the many in the George (who tend to be a lot younger anyway). Not saying I'm terribly stylish, at all. I'm just saying, not everyone who will wear masculine clothing will wear it in the exact same way. Just like women who wear feminine clothing won't always wear it the exact same way.

kiwipower

scholar007 wrote: »

Why do some Lesbians dress like fellas, cut their hair short and generally act masculine. I'll attach a proviso that I'm genuinely perplexed by this. It is not my intention to offend anyone and please accept my most sincere apologies in advance if I do, but it is something I have often wondered about.

Why do some straight women dress like fellas?
Why do some women where dresses?
Why do some women wear make-up?
Why do some women not wear make-up?
Why do some men wear make-up?
Why do some men not wear make-up?
Why do some women where tracksuits?
Why do some men wear Kilts?
Why do some men wear trousers?
Why do some men wear jeans?
Why did MC Hammer wear them awful pants?

Get were Im going?

Why do some people think appearance defines the person?

Asry

Yeah I'll just function as an echo chamber here but I'll go with comfort.

HOWEVER.

As someone who may or may not have been a bit of a ... yeah. There's no nice word for what I am. Was. Am still in my brain.

So to put it bluntly, I'd dress a certain way to get laid in the George and Kiss ie because that pulls girls. That's purely a 'scene thing' but seriously if I go somewhere wearing a shirt and tie with braces around my jeans, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Or perhaps it's just my natural charm (I jest).

ALTHOUGH as well, my friend who's a lesbian used to be so 'girly'. High heels, dresses, lots of makeup, kind of funky/burlesque. But she realised that girls in the George and even in Kiss must have dismissed her as a straight girl, and she was upset. She's now kind of like a ... skater rapper cross between with short hair and figure hugging clothes. She still looks gorgeous but I thought I'd point out that change in point of view.

Back to me, me, me. Sometimes I dress that way at home (boxers, ties, shirts) or wear skirts and black tops with flowers and cardigans ... or skirts with shirts and ties or whatever.

I really have never cared about clothes and if left to my own devices kind of wish I was wearing the ballgown from Beauty and Beast today. You know, the gold one? I've always wanted that.

Or OR when I was like 7 my mom made me a Little Mermaid costume and it was so so cool. It had a longsleeved white top with the purple shells sewn on and then a green tail all cool and a bit shiny and it was made to turn up to one side at the end so I could walk.

THAT'S what I wish I was wearing today.

stephen_n

baby and crumble wrote: »

I guess you don't walk around temple bar or basically any nightclub in Dublin so! All I ever see is carbon copy girls all wearing the exact same as each other- dresses that don't cover much, high shoes that look painful and hair done up like some kind of birds nest.

Of course sexuality comes into it- everyone dresses to impress, and to feel attractive to their intended gender. It would be foolhardy to suggest otherwise. And as for there being a uniform in the George for women, there's the exact same for men- the amount of men i see in pretty tight tees is incredible! But there is a comfort in dressing similarly to your peers, and your friends, because often your clothes are a reflection of that peer group. Like, it's rare you'll find a hardcore raver who chooses to wear suits in their spare time, or a heavy metal fan who wears football jerseys out to Fibbers.

And another element to add into the mix is style- which isn't just about clothes. When I say I wear masculine clothes, I wear them MY way. In that way, I would generally stand out from the many in the George (who tend to be a lot younger anyway). Not saying I'm terribly stylish, at all. I'm just saying, not everyone who will wear masculine clothing will wear it in the exact same way. Just like women who wear feminine clothing won't always wear it the exact same way.

I accept the temple bar thing and was even thinking that as I was typing the original post but there is a difference in wearing a similar fashion trend and the almost uniform nature of the way guys and some lesbians dress. End of the day people don't dress one way because they are gay straight etc well most people anyway I would assume. Guys as was pointed out firstly dress by comfort then comes the looking good part, thus the tight tee-shirts (which is not exclusive to gay culture at all anymore), fitted clothes to accentuate fitness or superdry shirts to hide the lack of it.

The idea of, for the want of a better term, sexual intelligence that interests me in it. By which I mean the thought process's that decide comfort over fashion when you see the the girls you refered to wearing shoes with heels that would probably be refused planning permission due to height restrictions in the city centre too those who can make decission that I would prefer to be comfortable than fashionable. There are no hard and fast rules but this seems to be far more common amongst lesbians, I wonder is there a larger element of sexuality in it than simply a fashion choice.